HAND GRENADES, Your friend or Foe

**Infro** · 05-24-2005 01:22 AM

damage from 1 DIRECT hit from a hand grenade, 100 damage, damage from 50 LMG bullets at level 550 damage, damage from 5 hand grenades, 500 damage.... what have we learned about damage from hand grenades? hehe, anyhow, only good time u can have a hand grenade is on a PG with a LOT of skulks and ur the first one through and have it primed.

ONE last situtation, to get the point across.
LEVEL 0 LMG verses, LEVEL 0 HAND GRENADES

7 marines go into a hive, all seven through a hand grenade, doing 10 percent damage, taking each marine, 10 respawns, to hand grenade a hive to death.
7 marines shooting a hive with level 0 LMG does 50 percent damage to a hive, you got the other 50 bullets, reload and unload into the hive again, 0 percent, 1 or 2 pistol bullets from every marine should finish it off, totaling, 0 respawns to kill the enemy hive.
At perfect timing (beacon perfectly, died perfectly) the hand grenades will take ~ 30 seconds at a BARE mininium if you were to ALL die right as you through ur hand grenade and right before the comm becons. level 0 LMGs shooting the hive would take ~13 seconds 5 shooting, 2 reloading, 5 shooting, 1 pistoling. oh BTW the hand grenades, would still have to pistol the hive, but twice as much as the LMGs because the hive healed more than twice as much during the 30 seconds.

LMG > Hand Grenades.
Level 1 upgrades > Hand Grenades.
An Empty Shotgun killing one of your marines > Hand Grenades.

Hand grenades, a marines bane.

**_Ender_** · 05-24-2005 01:34 AM

coffee > infro

:P

**Infro** · 05-24-2005 01:44 AM

dudezorz, coffeezorz, havn't had caffine in soooo long, not since i got all those bad headaches after not drinking coffee or pop for a week.,, d*** the caffine addition, d*** the ns addiction, and the worst addiction of all d*** the addiction to MUD d*** u mud! all those problems are bad enough, why add the foolishness of having Hand Grenades to worry bout, not to mention T_BEAR's mom

**RisingSun** · 05-24-2005 04:03 AM

Agreed and thank you for pointing this out Infro. Hand grenades should only be a last upgrade if you happen to have the res while everyone else has heavies AND jetpacks... they are useless... ^_^

**rs_al** · 05-24-2005 07:06 AM

The trick is to become master of half life physics.

Remember that the grenade will travel for 50 feet, regardless of how you throw it, or how much sense this makes. For example, throwing a grenade directly into an upwardly sloped surface, the nade will roll all the way up the slope, because many frontiersmen were space's greatest bowling champions before the Kharaa showed up. Bowling is very popular is space. Note that this 50 feet may mean 25 feet of moving foward, only to catch on some invisible clip plane to bounce back at your face.

The other part of grenade mastery is releasing the mouse button several seconds before you want to throw. You see, in space, grenades are very complicated. Like many things in the future, they are computerized with tiny micro nanites. Unfortunately these nanites are running Windows 98, which takes a while to boot up before it is ready to explode.

On second thought, I think those grenades are really cyanide capsules. We have had it wrong all this time.

**Pfhor** · 05-24-2005 09:20 AM

Of course you aren't going to use grenades alone, they are support weapons. When lmg rushing a hive with 8 marines they go through the phase with their grenades primed, throw their grenades at the hive first, then finish it off with their lmgs.

There are 2 reasons for doing this: the obvious one is that it damages the hive by 800+ (depending on the weapon level) almost instantaneously (whereas lmgs take 5 seconds to unload a full clip) and the second is that the significant amount of splash damage will eviscerate any nearby gorges healing the hive or lerks umbraing the hive.

Grenades are also useful for saving RTs with skulks on them, saving phase gates, clearing rooms with several skulks (works best if you have a teammate to throw the grenade at, since they explode on impact), a last resort for clearing webs, and clearing vents that are impossible to shoot in.

I agree that grenades should not be researched before lvl 1 upgrades, but to say they are useless is a bit unfair.

**Card AKA Karrd** · 05-24-2005 11:22 AM

I'm an fan of handgrenades, and the reason is that until fades and oni start showing up, they are a really useful tool for countering IP can PG camping. Already have the grenade starting to throw as you go through, and you can sometimes get several skulks with the blast. There are also the less frequently useful benifits, such as taking out hard to reach kharaa. And it's 20 res and 45 seconds for an something all marines will get for the rest of the game.

**Kerostasis** · 05-24-2005 11:52 AM

Also remember that Hand grenades do blast damage..so while the +100 damage against an alien may be pathetic (especially considering your chances of actually hitting that alien), the +200 damage vs structures is very relevant. So if you get 7 HG marines into a hive together, all throw grenades, Hive loses 1400 hp (20%) instantly--and now you start unloading LMGs. If your marines each die after 1 LMG clip, then you beacon and rush again--1 HG + 1 LMG clip each is enough to wipe it out now.

Basically--don't use HGs against aliens, unless they're hiding behind res towers or something. Use them on buildings.

**Pfhor** · 05-24-2005 01:14 PM

Originally Posted by Kerostasis

Also remember that Hand grenades do blast damage..so while the +100 damage against an alien may be pathetic (especially considering your chances of actually hitting that alien), the +200 damage vs structures is very relevant.

I am fairly sure HGs are not double vs structures. That only applies to grenade launchers.

**Infro** · 05-24-2005 01:35 PM

GRRR i got auto logged off and lost my post, oh well, here is a cut down version.

20 res, 45 seconds.

Good situtations:
Killing/Scaring Aliens on Nodes.
Killing Aliens on other marines when reloading during hive rush
Killing Webs
Clearing PGs

Bad situtations:
Welders
Throwing nades unto a hive or rt or any structure
Throwing nades at ANY lifeform

Basically, they'd be good for seiging hives to clear PGs.

Good outweighs bad, so long as you have smart marines, and i'd rather give one smart marine in a group of smart marines an HMG rather than a HG. Upon that note, i'd rather give smart or stupid marines 10 percent more damage or 20 more armor than a HG.
MAYBE get HG after armor one and weapons 3, before armor 2,, MAYBE. thats the point at which seiges should be going up, and you may need to clear a PG a couple few times to keep the SEIGE going. But with seige comes welders. Mainly, i wouldn't get HGs.

**Kerostasis** · 05-24-2005 01:53 PM

*Goes off to test Hand Grenade Blast damage*

I was pretty sure they did...but I'll check.

If they don't, then I hate them even more. =(

**Infro** · 05-24-2005 01:56 PM

Hand grenades do 2x damage to structures, damage calculator is wrong

They also get weapons upgrades

**Infro** · 05-24-2005 02:07 PM

So it'll take 5 level 0 grenades, for 7 marines, to take down a hive, (actually more cause they do 196.8 damage and not 200,,,, damage / time is all we're looking at now, give me a bit and i'll try and calculate it out. LOL trial and error FTW.

**Infro** · 05-24-2005 02:28 PM

Did some hands on calculating, one marine constantly throwing HGs at a hive for one minute, LEVEL 3 HGs, got the hive down to 40 percent.
one marine constantly shooting the hive with a level 3 LMG got the hive down in 45 seconds.
... I'd have to say that damage calculator needs some work. (I didn't need to reload my LMG i basically kept a constant fire on it.) (as with the hand grenades, it took some time to prime each grenade, time that could of been spent shooting or reloading in a real game., another thing that hand grenades are good for, taking down structures, and i don't mean RTs, OCs, and Chambers in a hive, anything that is close to each other. Splash damage will really make it hurt, or for hitting a hive right after the aliens movement in with those HGs. HGs seem to have a HUGE splash radius that dies of quickly, but still, 20 hp a grenade for 4 skulks can hurt)

**Infro** · 05-24-2005 02:53 PM

did one last calculation, Level 3 shotgun took down the hive in 45 seconds including reload times, (same time as LMG without reloading), Level 3 GL took down the hive in 50 seconds including reload time. A level 3 HMG can kill a hive in exactly 1 minute, but it needs more than the gun's MAX ammo can hold. A level 3 LMG can get a hive down to 5 percent in exactly 1 minute, but cannot hold the ammo to shoot for a constant minute, including reload times.

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