Siege guide for every hive, in all NS3.1 maps

aeroripper · 01-21-2006, 05:27 AM

I was partly inspired by aes0ps post on the siege placement on veil (and used his example here), and I've been wanting to put sometime like this together for quite a while. Someone mentioned that LazyEye was also doing something like this, but I was mostly done already so I just went ahead and finished. I didn't really include turret placement\ perfect PG placement in all of these, and a lot of these spots havn't been tested in an actual game other than to see if they reach, so if somebody tries a spot and it fails horribly post here about it and mention what could be improved

.

I've played many many NS games and seen many comms do lots of different placements of sieges, some good, some bad. But what I only see very few do, is take full advantage of the distance granted between the TF, the sieges, and the distance from the sieges to the hive. Another is positioning your sieges and TF so they allow for ample space and fighting room for your marines w/o tripping over everything, and their guns hitting siege hitboxes instead of the skulks and fades. Your marines will thank you.

The two main things you should keep in mind while viewing through all the examples:

1) The distance circle from the TF to the sieges: Turrent Factories have a fairly large radius that you can place sieges within. In most maps, this means that you can snuggle a TF out of the main battle area by the sieges and keep it a lot safer than trying to jam it in with the rest of the sieges.

2) The distance from the sieges to the hive a lot of times comm's are not sure if they will reach or not, so they put them somewhere where they KNOW it will reach no matter what. But I have gone through a lot of the commonly played maps and showing examples where you can place your sieges much further back from the hive and still hit.

I'm not saying that every single one of these is the "best" siege spot because that really depends on what your up against and the situation (ie.. bile bomb, fades, etc), but a lot of them should be helpful to gauge how much distance you have to play with at the least. One thing I should mention is that in each one of the examples, the sieges will ALL hit from those spots, although sometimes you might have to practice offline to be able to place them quickly since you won't have time in a game for trial and error. Keep in mind a lot (not all) of the shots I have, have to be placed in that spot exactly or closer, because they are in the absolute farthest away they can be and still reach. I just wanted to demonstrate how much space you really have, so again some trial and error yourself is helpful to get a feel for it.

To do so easily, type this in your console.

bind "x" "sv_cheats 1; bigdig; givepoints; spawnhive"

Then create your own server and whatever map you want to practice on, and hit f11 to turn cheats on, enable insta-build, give resources, and spawn hives. The spawnhive one is good if your practicing getting the siege spot right to hit the hive. The "x" can be any key you want.

Here are some of the nicer sieges I wanted to show:

NS_VEIL:

I've used this one before and it usually works better than having them in the other room as their more protected from bile bomb. Although you could also put that 3rd siege in line with the other 2 and it still hits and it frees up that side of the hallway for marines to move (I didn't feel like re-doing the picture). Seems to be a lot cleaner siege than in the other room IMO.

NS_TANITH

I like this one because you can snuggle that TF in that space where the aliens won't notice it, and it will be a hard target. Plus those sieges along there arn't visible from the waste hive side till you go deep in the hallway (better protection from bile bomb), and it gives your marines plenty of room to fight.

NS_NOTHING

This is a common spot where I always see comm's putting their sieges way at the end of the hallway where the lerks can easily gas them from the overhang on via and skulks\fades have a big open area to attack. When their in the hallway you can have your marines way up front fighting and one or two building the nice row of sieges from behind, and your TF is completely out of the way.

NS_LOST

Self-explantory, much cleaner than putting them in the other room.

NS_HERA

Much furthur away from the hive, and your marines have direct line of sight to the TF and sieges when they phase in.

NS_ECLIPSE

I really like this one. TF is out of easy access for aliens, and not in the way of rines. I don't think I've ever seen a comm put the sieges in that room instead of the one in front of it... very handy. Plus the turrets there really make it fun for the skulks.

NS_CAGED

Aliens can barely see them running by

and the whole hallway is wide open for your marines.

NS_ORIGIN

WAYYYYYYY back from where most comms put them. All reach of course, although might be a little tricky for marine footing, would require testing in a real game scenario.

Download: Siegeguide.zip

(many thanks to paranoid for hosting the download)

**Iceberg** · 01-21-2006, 04:58 PM

Aero, you sexy little man you.

**Wyzcrak** · 01-21-2006, 06:31 PM

This is absolutely, positively, 100% phenominal. Great, great work, aero.

Many thanks to paranoid for hosting the download. I've added it to the original post.

micr0c0sm · 01-21-2006, 06:55 PM

Those extra few feet will make a world of difference when seigeing.

Well done. +rep

aesop rock · 02-21-2006, 06:18 PM

Damn, wish I had thought of this.

<3 aero

Risme · 02-22-2006, 01:07 PM

Nice stuff, i have made a siegeguide too, although you have better placements on many occasions. I have also tested mine many times in real action, and they work really well.

It's a shame that i can't post any urls yet, not enough posts. Anyway, if you're interested to see mine, pm Risme in QuakeNet.

**Wyzcrak** · 02-22-2006, 03:29 PM

Thanks for the link, paranoid.

Thanks for the info, Risme.. and welcome to the forums! Be sure you've read all of the required reading atop the forum index. What name do you play under on the server?

Risme · 02-24-2006, 05:11 AM

I haven't played on your server yet. I read all the required info, but im still unsure of some things and i have sent a PM to you Wyzcrak, containing questions about some things im unsure of. As i don't want to get warned or worse, maybe i should wait for your answers before playing on your server.

I would have another link to post, it's another rar packed file containing smart scan screenshots. After all, scanning is big part of siegeing isn't it?

The idea behind those screenshots is to use scan energy more efficiently, only hitting hive or possible chambers very near it. Normally comms scan so that the sieges often hit spawns rt first. With smart scans you can save 20-60 scan energy. So if anyone wants the link just PM me in QuakeNet or if you see me on tacticalgamer irc channel, gimme a shout.

Should i post introduction about who i am somewhere? Oh and if you know puzl, he recommended your server to me.

Irish Pirate · 02-24-2006, 10:24 AM

Welcome Risme, a good place to start would be the rules page on tacticalwiki

http://www.tacticalwiki.com/index.php/TGNS_Rules

I don't remember if the required reading (which I believe is geared toward the forums users) includes those rules in a direct link. That page should get in to some specifically server related rules, and might help you out.

If you have already read that, Wyz will be able to explain any questions you have.

**Wyzcrak** · 02-24-2006, 02:06 PM

I'll thank puzl next time we speak.

Yes, the Required Reading atop the forum index is for all of us, including you and me, and it does contain links to the NS rules/announcements forum.

Darkilla · 03-31-2006, 01:11 AM

I was actually wondering if there's anyway to have a green circle or red circle (much that like which the TF has whne dropping turrets, on teh hive, so that I can see what hte max distance is to seige the hive from.
Any idea's?

Kerostasis · 03-31-2006, 02:49 PM

That would be interesting. I suspect it would have to be implemented by the game devs rather than a plugin though. They could set it up so that whenever you have seiges selected to drop, you see a large red circle around hives with the same radius as seige canons. Then you know if your outside that circle, you aren't going to reach.

In the mean time though, theres another solution thats almost as good. If you know your pushing the range of your seiges, drop just 1 seige, and tell your marines NOT to build it! Click on the siege, and then scroll over to the hive. You can see a range circle for the seige, and if it doesnt overlap the hive, SELL IT and try again closer. If it does overlap the hive, give the ok for your marines to build the seiges.

Darkilla · 03-31-2006, 04:07 PM

I never knew that.
i have to try that today sometime.

Tours · 07-11-2006, 03:57 AM

If you are willing to test things out somewhere putting sv_cheats on and dropping a seige under where the hive is gives an accurate seige distance.

First of all aero i would have to say that placing the seiges out of the way isnt a good idea. Putting them in doorways is often very usefull to block the fade(s), which is likely your most formidable opponent. I noticed that for some of the seiges there were a max of three seiges that will hit the hive. You want for there to be atleast five seiges per seige spot that will hit the hive. The most gorges that are healing the hive and will not be able to be killed will be two. Three seiges plus one seige per gorge is needed to drop a hive.

aeroripper · 07-11-2006, 04:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tours

First of all aero i would have to say that placing the seiges out of the way isnt a good idea. Putting them in doorways is often very usefull to block the fade(s), which is likely your most formidable opponent. I noticed that for some of the seiges there were a max of three seiges that will hit the hive. You want for there to be atleast five seiges per seige spot that will hit the hive. The most gorges that are healing the hive and will not be able to be killed will be two. Three seiges plus one seige per gorge is needed to drop a hive.

True. I'm just showing the maximum amount of distance you can get away with in most cases. Depending on the map I'll put a siege cannon in the middle of the hall to block fades, others like ns_lost alpha are there for distance and ease of siege. In most spaces to fit 5 sieges in there your probably going to need to be closer to the hive anyways.

01-21-2006, 05:27 AM	#1 (permalink)
aeroripper Join Date: Dec 2005 Age: 25 Posts: 2,291	Siege guide for every hive, in all NS3.1 maps I was partly inspired by aes0ps post on the siege placement on veil (and used his example here), and I've been wanting to put sometime like this together for quite a while. Someone mentioned that LazyEye was also doing something like this, but I was mostly done already so I just went ahead and finished. I didn't really include turret placement\ perfect PG placement in all of these, and a lot of these spots havn't been tested in an actual game other than to see if they reach, so if somebody tries a spot and it fails horribly post here about it and mention what could be improved . I've played many many NS games and seen many comms do lots of different placements of sieges, some good, some bad. But what I only see very few do, is take full advantage of the distance granted between the TF, the sieges, and the distance from the sieges to the hive. Another is positioning your sieges and TF so they allow for ample space and fighting room for your marines w/o tripping over everything, and their guns hitting siege hitboxes instead of the skulks and fades. Your marines will thank you. The two main things you should keep in mind while viewing through all the examples: 1) The distance circle from the TF to the sieges: Turrent Factories have a fairly large radius that you can place sieges within. In most maps, this means that you can snuggle a TF out of the main battle area by the sieges and keep it a lot safer than trying to jam it in with the rest of the sieges. 2) The distance from the sieges to the hive a lot of times comm's are not sure if they will reach or not, so they put them somewhere where they KNOW it will reach no matter what. But I have gone through a lot of the commonly played maps and showing examples where you can place your sieges much further back from the hive and still hit. I'm not saying that every single one of these is the "best" siege spot because that really depends on what your up against and the situation (ie.. bile bomb, fades, etc), but a lot of them should be helpful to gauge how much distance you have to play with at the least. One thing I should mention is that in each one of the examples, the sieges will ALL hit from those spots, although sometimes you might have to practice offline to be able to place them quickly since you won't have time in a game for trial and error. Keep in mind a lot (not all) of the shots I have, have to be placed in that spot exactly or closer, because they are in the absolute farthest away they can be and still reach. I just wanted to demonstrate how much space you really have, so again some trial and error yourself is helpful to get a feel for it. To do so easily, type this in your console. bind "x" "sv_cheats 1; bigdig; givepoints; spawnhive" Then create your own server and whatever map you want to practice on, and hit f11 to turn cheats on, enable insta-build, give resources, and spawn hives. The spawnhive one is good if your practicing getting the siege spot right to hit the hive. The "x" can be any key you want. Here are some of the nicer sieges I wanted to show: NS_VEIL: I've used this one before and it usually works better than having them in the other room as their more protected from bile bomb. Although you could also put that 3rd siege in line with the other 2 and it still hits and it frees up that side of the hallway for marines to move (I didn't feel like re-doing the picture). Seems to be a lot cleaner siege than in the other room IMO. NS_TANITH I like this one because you can snuggle that TF in that space where the aliens won't notice it, and it will be a hard target. Plus those sieges along there arn't visible from the waste hive side till you go deep in the hallway (better protection from bile bomb), and it gives your marines plenty of room to fight. NS_NOTHING This is a common spot where I always see comm's putting their sieges way at the end of the hallway where the lerks can easily gas them from the overhang on via and skulks\fades have a big open area to attack. When their in the hallway you can have your marines way up front fighting and one or two building the nice row of sieges from behind, and your TF is completely out of the way. NS_LOST Self-explantory, much cleaner than putting them in the other room. NS_HERA Much furthur away from the hive, and your marines have direct line of sight to the TF and sieges when they phase in. NS_ECLIPSE I really like this one. TF is out of easy access for aliens, and not in the way of rines. I don't think I've ever seen a comm put the sieges in that room instead of the one in front of it... very handy. Plus the turrets there really make it fun for the skulks. NS_CAGED Aliens can barely see them running by and the whole hallway is wide open for your marines. NS_ORIGIN WAYYYYYYY back from where most comms put them. All reach of course, although might be a little tricky for marine footing, would require testing in a real game scenario. Download: Siegeguide.zip (many thanks to paranoid for hosting the download) Last edited by Wyzcrak; 01-21-2006 at 06:30 PM. Reason: added permanent download link

01-21-2006, 04:58 PM	#2 (permalink)
Iceberg Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Illinois Age: 25 Posts: 1,931	Re: Siege guide for every hive, in all NS3.1 maps Aero, you sexy little man you. __________________ It only takes 2 bites [insert parasite] to get to the center of a meatpop. TGNS Admin \| NS Forum Moderator Digz \| NS Play Tester Natural Selection \| TGNS Primer \| Communication Awareness! Army Info: Deployment or Bust - June 2009

01-21-2006, 06:31 PM	#3 (permalink)
Wyzcrak Join Date: May 2003 Location: Memphis, TN Posts: 14,148	Re: Siege guide for every hive, in all NS3.1 maps This is absolutely, positively, 100% phenominal. Great, great work, aero. Many thanks to paranoid for hosting the download. I've added it to the original post. __________________ Steam Community? Add me. \| Join #tacticalgamer \| Search Results Legend \| New Posts Forum Filter \| Postbox Toggle \| Live Thread Review \| One Line Results \| Free Remote, Encrypted Backup Darkilla: In short, NS is pretty much really fast chess. With guns. Apophis: I haven't seen anyone say that SM's are better than non-SMs. Nordbomber: This is THE first server I've seen where either side can comeback from out of seemingly nowhere with the right teamwork. en4rcment: I have NEVER experienced the type of gameplay that I have found here. Nightly I am amazed at the personalities and gaming talent. Root: Welcome to TG. Feel free to punctuate your sentences correctly. Monkerz: Its gonna take all my skills to beat those boys off in the future.

01-21-2006, 06:55 PM	#4 (permalink)
micr0c0sm Join Date: Mar 2004 Posts: 660	Re: Siege guide for every hive, in all NS3.1 maps Those extra few feet will make a world of difference when seigeing. Well done. +rep

02-21-2006, 06:18 PM	#5 (permalink)
aesop rock Join Date: May 2005 Location: Olympia, WA Age: 27 Posts: 321	Re: Siege guide for every hive, in all NS3.1 maps Damn, wish I had thought of this. <3 aero

02-22-2006, 01:07 PM	#6 (permalink)
Risme Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Lahti, Finland Posts: 2	Re: Siege guide for every hive, in all NS3.1 maps Nice stuff, i have made a siegeguide too, although you have better placements on many occasions. I have also tested mine many times in real action, and they work really well. It's a shame that i can't post any urls yet, not enough posts. Anyway, if you're interested to see mine, pm Risme in QuakeNet.

02-22-2006, 03:29 PM	#7 (permalink)
Wyzcrak Join Date: May 2003 Location: Memphis, TN Posts: 14,148	Re: Siege guide for every hive, in all NS3.1 maps Thanks for the link, paranoid. Thanks for the info, Risme.. and welcome to the forums! Be sure you've read all of the required reading atop the forum index. What name do you play under on the server? __________________ Steam Community? Add me. \| Join #tacticalgamer \| Search Results Legend \| New Posts Forum Filter \| Postbox Toggle \| Live Thread Review \| One Line Results \| Free Remote, Encrypted Backup Darkilla: In short, NS is pretty much really fast chess. With guns. Apophis: I haven't seen anyone say that SM's are better than non-SMs. Nordbomber: This is THE first server I've seen where either side can comeback from out of seemingly nowhere with the right teamwork. en4rcment: I have NEVER experienced the type of gameplay that I have found here. Nightly I am amazed at the personalities and gaming talent. Root: Welcome to TG. Feel free to punctuate your sentences correctly. Monkerz: Its gonna take all my skills to beat those boys off in the future.

02-24-2006, 05:11 AM	#8 (permalink)
Risme Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Lahti, Finland Posts: 2	Re: Siege guide for every hive, in all NS3.1 maps I haven't played on your server yet. I read all the required info, but im still unsure of some things and i have sent a PM to you Wyzcrak, containing questions about some things im unsure of. As i don't want to get warned or worse, maybe i should wait for your answers before playing on your server. I would have another link to post, it's another rar packed file containing smart scan screenshots. After all, scanning is big part of siegeing isn't it? The idea behind those screenshots is to use scan energy more efficiently, only hitting hive or possible chambers very near it. Normally comms scan so that the sieges often hit spawns rt first. With smart scans you can save 20-60 scan energy. So if anyone wants the link just PM me in QuakeNet or if you see me on tacticalgamer irc channel, gimme a shout. Should i post introduction about who i am somewhere? Oh and if you know puzl, he recommended your server to me. Last edited by Risme; 02-24-2006 at 08:36 AM. Reason: Smart scanning

02-24-2006, 10:24 AM	#9 (permalink)
Irish Pirate Join Date: Jul 2005 Age: 21 Posts: 483	Re: Siege guide for every hive, in all NS3.1 maps Welcome Risme, a good place to start would be the rules page on tacticalwiki http://www.tacticalwiki.com/index.php/TGNS_Rules I don't remember if the required reading (which I believe is geared toward the forums users) includes those rules in a direct link. That page should get in to some specifically server related rules, and might help you out. If you have already read that, Wyz will be able to explain any questions you have.

02-24-2006, 02:06 PM	#10 (permalink)
Wyzcrak Join Date: May 2003 Location: Memphis, TN Posts: 14,148	Re: Siege guide for every hive, in all NS3.1 maps I'll thank puzl next time we speak. Yes, the Required Reading atop the forum index is for all of us, including you and me, and it does contain links to the NS rules/announcements forum. __________________ Steam Community? Add me. \| Join #tacticalgamer \| Search Results Legend \| New Posts Forum Filter \| Postbox Toggle \| Live Thread Review \| One Line Results \| Free Remote, Encrypted Backup Darkilla: In short, NS is pretty much really fast chess. With guns. Apophis: I haven't seen anyone say that SM's are better than non-SMs. Nordbomber: This is THE first server I've seen where either side can comeback from out of seemingly nowhere with the right teamwork. en4rcment: I have NEVER experienced the type of gameplay that I have found here. Nightly I am amazed at the personalities and gaming talent. Root: Welcome to TG. Feel free to punctuate your sentences correctly. Monkerz: Its gonna take all my skills to beat those boys off in the future.

03-31-2006, 02:49 PM	#12 (permalink)
Kerostasis Join Date: May 2005 Age: 24 Posts: 2,749	Re: Siege guide for every hive, in all NS3.1 maps That would be interesting. I suspect it would have to be implemented by the game devs rather than a plugin though. They could set it up so that whenever you have seiges selected to drop, you see a large red circle around hives with the same radius as seige canons. Then you know if your outside that circle, you aren't going to reach. In the mean time though, theres another solution thats almost as good. If you know your pushing the range of your seiges, drop just 1 seige, and tell your marines NOT to build it! Click on the siege, and then scroll over to the hive. You can see a range circle for the seige, and if it doesnt overlap the hive, SELL IT and try again closer. If it does overlap the hive, give the ok for your marines to build the seiges.

07-11-2006, 03:57 AM	#14 (permalink)
Tours Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 32	Re: Siege guide for every hive, in all NS3.1 maps If you are willing to test things out somewhere putting sv_cheats on and dropping a seige under where the hive is gives an accurate seige distance. First of all aero i would have to say that placing the seiges out of the way isnt a good idea. Putting them in doorways is often very usefull to block the fade(s), which is likely your most formidable opponent. I noticed that for some of the seiges there were a max of three seiges that will hit the hive. You want for there to be atleast five seiges per seige spot that will hit the hive. The most gorges that are healing the hive and will not be able to be killed will be two. Three seiges plus one seige per gorge is needed to drop a hive.

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