Proposed OC modification for TG

Trevelyan · 07-15-2004, 11:36 AM

For those that frequent the NS forums... this isn't new. I've had a thread going in the Public Beta Discussion forum for a long while about OCs and their cost.

http://www.natural-selection.org/for...pic=74463&st=0

Now from what I've read about the unchained chamber plugin, there is an option to change the costs of all chambers. In fact from what i've read the default costs for some of the upgrade chambers is higher by default then on TG, so obviously the Server ops know about this feature. What I propose is to try out a lowered OC cost for a bit... a week? day? a evening when everyone is in the mood? I dont care... I'd like to see how the setup works out. As for the proposed cost, I'd guess a 5-7 res range? (start with 5 and work our way up perhaps?)

It is unfortunet that you cannot lower the OC area limit a tad to compensate for the lower cost through this plugin, otherwise I'd recommend it.

(Not a bad first post no?

)

**Wyzcrak** · 07-15-2004, 01:12 PM

A fine first post, if you ask me.

Welcome.

Actually, we're running the unchained plugin that pre-dates the chamber cost option. I became MUCH more careful to have a GOOD reason to keep the latest version of that plugin after the author included the unannounced lifeform unchaining "feature" of that plugin (which has since been removed). Of course, upgrading to the version that lets us control chamber cost wouldn't be difficult, or time-consuming, at all.

I'm all for trying this out one evening when many regs are on the server.

**Wyzcrak** · 07-15-2004, 01:15 PM

Come to think of it, when I think back to one of the reasons that 8v8 didn't work out, it's because the marines were just too effective at moving in groups and tearing down alien structures with relatively little cost to themselves, compared to what it took the aliens to stand that defense up.

I wonder how much this change could affect that, if at all.

HairyNevus · 07-15-2004, 02:39 PM

OCs used to be good, what happened? I wouldn't mind if this happened, lots of time you're gorge and have 5 res so you just go skulk. If everytime that happened an OC got put up, too, it would really change the game (in a good way). There's been entire games on TG where an Offence Chamber hasn't been built. They really outta come back to the game.

**TheFeniX** · 07-15-2004, 03:45 PM

OC's had to be good back in 1.4 because you only had one main gorge running around who had to worry about capping nodes, hives, and dropping upgrades. Now everyone and their mom can (and they damn well better if you want to win). OCs are only effective in large numbers because if the aliens hold their res early game, they should all be swimming in it by the half-way mark.

Just give me my GL and you can drop all the OCs you want.....

Trevelyan · 07-15-2004, 06:43 PM

I've always wondered why the server capacity was at 14... its full nearly every time i try to join. ^_^

With this... Alien static defenses are viable and lone rambos will no longer be able to easily slip into hives to pull a "Wyz".

and you know... if it makes higher player counts more balanced this is a win-win situation here.

Stupid · 07-15-2004, 07:06 PM

I'm all for something that helps keep alien rt destruction on par with marine rt destruction. A lone rambo (given that the rest of his/her team is pressuring effectively) can take out about 1.5 alien rt by the time a lone skulk can take out just 1 marine rt. And that's not counting electrification. Gorges have ~3 res after dropping an rt at the start of the game - tack on an OC to that rt and suddenly the alien economy becomes a lot more "self-sufficient." This will also help drop a few "sentries" in the usual siege spots - if you see an OC going down, you'll know something is up.

HairyNevus · 07-15-2004, 07:28 PM

We just played a game where there were walls of lame everywhere. You couldn't shoot them to give away your posistion, but too many of them to live. Did you change the OCs to 5 res already? Maybe bump it up to 7 at least.

**Wyzcrak** · 07-15-2004, 07:48 PM

Nothing on the server has changed.

Go get some cream and shush.

Trevelyan · 07-16-2004, 12:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HairyNevus

We just played a game where there were walls of lame everywhere. You couldn't shoot them to give away your posistion, but too many of them to live. Did you change the OCs to 5 res already? Maybe bump it up to 7 at least.

Relax, Like the Unchaining of chambers... If aliens spend their res in OCs they wont have it in other more important areas. Plus... With 5 res per OC... a gorge could build 3 OCs right off the bat! Thats a resource tower... 1.5 upgrade chambers and HALF a early fade! Isn't that fair?

**_Ender_** · 07-16-2004, 01:11 AM

IMHO I dont think its the cost of the OCs.. I think what sucks the most about them is that you cant really defend anything because of the of the structure limit. Nine OCs isnt enough to defend a room\hallway when marines have lvl 3 armor\weapons and shotties.

HairyNevus · 07-16-2004, 01:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wyzcrack

Go get some cream

What in the hell is that supposed to mean?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trevelyan

a gorge could build 3 OCs right off the bat!

I know, its scary. You forget that every game your assuming res towers go down. Its just going to happen no mater what, for both sides. Now you have cheap turrets to guard res/make harder to kill and have aliens loosing less res. Sure, the marines can electrify, but that furthur drains thier resources and becuase of the OCs they wont be able to hunt for more effectively. Once 2nd hive is up and/or a fade hatches the marine rts are again vulnerable. Now you probably think "Well then by that time in the game the marines will also have a more effective way of taking out rts." Nope. Becuase they weren't able to get resources and now thier loosing them. With those kind of budget cuts they won't even be able to afford the phasegate for the lmg rush.

No one's been against this and someone's gotta be stubborn.

**_Ender_** · 07-16-2004, 01:22 AM

haha "budget cuts" ahaha

sorry just had to laugh at that :P

Trevelyan · 07-16-2004, 02:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HairyNevus

No one's been against this and someone's gotta be stubborn.

Thats cool... always need a devil's advocate.

Quote:

I know, its scary. You forget that every game your assuming res towers go down. Its just going to happen no mater what, for both sides. Now you have cheap turrets to guard res/make harder to kill and have aliens loosing less res.

Whoooo boy... I must be off today or something because that makes no sense to me... plz explain in a different way?

Quote:

Sure, the marines can electrify, but that furthur drains thier resources and becuase of the OCs they wont be able to hunt for more effectively.

Wouldn't electricity hinder alien's hunt for resnodes using that logic? A skulk cant take down a Elect res node by himself, a LA/LMG marine with enough ammo CAN take down 3 OCs guarding a node. Also... Placing OCs would drain res just as much as electrification.

Quote:

Once 2nd hive is up and/or a fade hatches the marine rts are again vulnerable.

Once marines get shotguns... OCs go down like clockwork, and THEY are available SECONDS into the game.

Quote:

Now you probably think "Well then by that time in the game the marines will also have a more effective way of taking out rts." Nope. Becuase they weren't able to get resources and now thier loosing them. With those kind of budget cuts they won't even be able to afford the phasegate for the lmg rush.

hmmmmmmm.... Sorry but you'll have to explain this part to me again. untill then No comment! ^_^

Trevelyan · 07-16-2004, 02:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by _Ender_

IMHO I dont think its the cost of the OCs.. I think what sucks the most about them is that you cant really defend anything because of the of the structure limit. Nine OCs isnt enough to defend a room\hallway when marines have lvl 3 armor\weapons and shotties.

Sorry for the double post... but I'm lazy and dont want to edit my last post.

OCs are not ment to STOP anything... even LA/LMG marines can be medspammed past the most fortified of locations. When those powerful shotguns and upgrades come into play, you have to counter them with an upgrade of your team's offensive abilities (fades/onos/lerks) Static defenses should always be < Players given time.

07-15-2004, 11:36 AM	#1 (permalink)
Trevelyan Join Date: Jul 2004 Age: 24 Posts: 13	Proposed OC modification for TG For those that frequent the NS forums... this isn't new. I've had a thread going in the Public Beta Discussion forum for a long while about OCs and their cost. http://www.natural-selection.org/for...pic=74463&st=0 Now from what I've read about the unchained chamber plugin, there is an option to change the costs of all chambers. In fact from what i've read the default costs for some of the upgrade chambers is higher by default then on TG, so obviously the Server ops know about this feature. What I propose is to try out a lowered OC cost for a bit... a week? day? a evening when everyone is in the mood? I dont care... I'd like to see how the setup works out. As for the proposed cost, I'd guess a 5-7 res range? (start with 5 and work our way up perhaps?) It is unfortunet that you cannot lower the OC area limit a tad to compensate for the lower cost through this plugin, otherwise I'd recommend it. (Not a bad first post no? )

07-15-2004, 01:12 PM	#2 (permalink)
Wyzcrak Join Date: May 2003 Location: Memphis, TN Posts: 14,148	Re: Proposed OC modification for TG A fine first post, if you ask me. Welcome. Actually, we're running the unchained plugin that pre-dates the chamber cost option. I became MUCH more careful to have a GOOD reason to keep the latest version of that plugin after the author included the unannounced lifeform unchaining "feature" of that plugin (which has since been removed). Of course, upgrading to the version that lets us control chamber cost wouldn't be difficult, or time-consuming, at all. I'm all for trying this out one evening when many regs are on the server. __________________ Steam Community? Add me. \| Join #tacticalgamer \| Search Results Legend \| New Posts Forum Filter \| Postbox Toggle \| Live Thread Review \| One Line Results \| Free Remote, Encrypted Backup Darkilla: In short, NS is pretty much really fast chess. With guns. Apophis: I haven't seen anyone say that SM's are better than non-SMs. Nordbomber: This is THE first server I've seen where either side can comeback from out of seemingly nowhere with the right teamwork. en4rcment: I have NEVER experienced the type of gameplay that I have found here. Nightly I am amazed at the personalities and gaming talent. Root: Welcome to TG. Feel free to punctuate your sentences correctly. Monkerz: Its gonna take all my skills to beat those boys off in the future.

07-15-2004, 01:15 PM	#3 (permalink)
Wyzcrak Join Date: May 2003 Location: Memphis, TN Posts: 14,148	Re: Proposed OC modification for TG Come to think of it, when I think back to one of the reasons that 8v8 didn't work out, it's because the marines were just too effective at moving in groups and tearing down alien structures with relatively little cost to themselves, compared to what it took the aliens to stand that defense up. I wonder how much this change could affect that, if at all. __________________ Steam Community? Add me. \| Join #tacticalgamer \| Search Results Legend \| New Posts Forum Filter \| Postbox Toggle \| Live Thread Review \| One Line Results \| Free Remote, Encrypted Backup Darkilla: In short, NS is pretty much really fast chess. With guns. Apophis: I haven't seen anyone say that SM's are better than non-SMs. Nordbomber: This is THE first server I've seen where either side can comeback from out of seemingly nowhere with the right teamwork. en4rcment: I have NEVER experienced the type of gameplay that I have found here. Nightly I am amazed at the personalities and gaming talent. Root: Welcome to TG. Feel free to punctuate your sentences correctly. Monkerz: Its gonna take all my skills to beat those boys off in the future.

07-15-2004, 02:39 PM	#4 (permalink)
HairyNevus Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Minneapolis, MN Age: 20 Posts: 869	Re: Proposed OC modification for TG OCs used to be good, what happened? I wouldn't mind if this happened, lots of time you're gorge and have 5 res so you just go skulk. If everytime that happened an OC got put up, too, it would really change the game (in a good way). There's been entire games on TG where an Offence Chamber hasn't been built. They really outta come back to the game. __________________ "Adios...blimp" -Assy McGee "All of the body parts they will never find, except all the peices that I saved." -Dickie Moist "Mmmmm, Duraflame." -Mountain Man "I don't like Sci-Fi, I love LOVE LOVE it!" - Gordon Crisp

07-15-2004, 03:45 PM	#5 (permalink)
TheFeniX Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Houston, TX Age: 26 Posts: 4,478	Re: Proposed OC modification for TG OC's had to be good back in 1.4 because you only had one main gorge running around who had to worry about capping nodes, hives, and dropping upgrades. Now everyone and their mom can (and they damn well better if you want to win). OCs are only effective in large numbers because if the aliens hold their res early game, they should all be swimming in it by the half-way mark. Just give me my GL and you can drop all the OCs you want..... __________________ - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - TheFeniX's Steam Profile TG's Team Fortress 2 Steam Group

07-15-2004, 06:43 PM	#6 (permalink)
Trevelyan Join Date: Jul 2004 Age: 24 Posts: 13	Re: Proposed OC modification for TG I've always wondered why the server capacity was at 14... its full nearly every time i try to join. ^_^ With this... Alien static defenses are viable and lone rambos will no longer be able to easily slip into hives to pull a "Wyz". and you know... if it makes higher player counts more balanced this is a win-win situation here.

07-15-2004, 07:06 PM	#7 (permalink)
Stupid Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: God's Country - Texas Posts: 637	Re: Proposed OC modification for TG I'm all for something that helps keep alien rt destruction on par with marine rt destruction. A lone rambo (given that the rest of his/her team is pressuring effectively) can take out about 1.5 alien rt by the time a lone skulk can take out just 1 marine rt. And that's not counting electrification. Gorges have ~3 res after dropping an rt at the start of the game - tack on an OC to that rt and suddenly the alien economy becomes a lot more "self-sufficient." This will also help drop a few "sentries" in the usual siege spots - if you see an OC going down, you'll know something is up. __________________ Former TGNS admin until WoW blinded me with flashy lights.

07-15-2004, 07:28 PM	#8 (permalink)
HairyNevus Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Minneapolis, MN Age: 20 Posts: 869	Re: Proposed OC modification for TG We just played a game where there were walls of lame everywhere. You couldn't shoot them to give away your posistion, but too many of them to live. Did you change the OCs to 5 res already? Maybe bump it up to 7 at least. __________________ "Adios...blimp" -Assy McGee "All of the body parts they will never find, except all the peices that I saved." -Dickie Moist "Mmmmm, Duraflame." -Mountain Man "I don't like Sci-Fi, I love LOVE LOVE it!" - Gordon Crisp

07-15-2004, 07:48 PM	#9 (permalink)
Wyzcrak Join Date: May 2003 Location: Memphis, TN Posts: 14,148	Re: Proposed OC modification for TG Nothing on the server has changed. Go get some cream and shush. __________________ Steam Community? Add me. \| Join #tacticalgamer \| Search Results Legend \| New Posts Forum Filter \| Postbox Toggle \| Live Thread Review \| One Line Results \| Free Remote, Encrypted Backup Darkilla: In short, NS is pretty much really fast chess. With guns. Apophis: I haven't seen anyone say that SM's are better than non-SMs. Nordbomber: This is THE first server I've seen where either side can comeback from out of seemingly nowhere with the right teamwork. en4rcment: I have NEVER experienced the type of gameplay that I have found here. Nightly I am amazed at the personalities and gaming talent. Root: Welcome to TG. Feel free to punctuate your sentences correctly. Monkerz: Its gonna take all my skills to beat those boys off in the future.

07-16-2004, 01:11 AM	#11 (permalink)
_Ender_ Join Date: May 2003 Location: I am lost, if you know where I am then please feel free to tell me. Age: 29 Posts: 2,048	Re: Proposed OC modification for TG IMHO I dont think its the cost of the OCs.. I think what sucks the most about them is that you cant really defend anything because of the of the structure limit. Nine OCs isnt enough to defend a room\hallway when marines have lvl 3 armor\weapons and shotties.

07-16-2004, 01:22 AM	#13 (permalink)
_Ender_ Join Date: May 2003 Location: I am lost, if you know where I am then please feel free to tell me. Age: 29 Posts: 2,048	Re: Proposed OC modification for TG haha "budget cuts" ahaha sorry just had to laugh at that :P

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