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11-04-2009, 09:43 AM #1
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04/11 - Skirmish DLC pack and patch announcement


The liberties of our country, the freedom of our civil Constitution, are worth defending at all hazards; and it is our duty to defend them against all attacks. We have received them as a fair inheritance from our worthy ancestors: they purchased them for us with toil and danger and expense of treasure and blood, and transmitted them to us with care and diligence. It will bring an everlasting mark of infamy on the present generation, enlightened as it is, if we should suffer them to be wrested from us by violence without a struggle, or to be cheated out of them by the artifices of false and designing men.
Samuel Adams
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11-04-2009, 09:44 AM #2
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Re: 04/11 - Skirmish DLC pack and patch announcement


The liberties of our country, the freedom of our civil Constitution, are worth defending at all hazards; and it is our duty to defend them against all attacks. We have received them as a fair inheritance from our worthy ancestors: they purchased them for us with toil and danger and expense of treasure and blood, and transmitted them to us with care and diligence. It will bring an everlasting mark of infamy on the present generation, enlightened as it is, if we should suffer them to be wrested from us by violence without a struggle, or to be cheated out of them by the artifices of false and designing men.
Samuel Adams
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11-04-2009, 10:51 AM #3
Re: 04/11 - Skirmish DLC pack and patch announcement
Meh, what a disappointment... the biggest flaws haven't been fixed:
- AI being able to see through tall grass (real game breaker for me)
- Ability to scroll trough weapons / give commands while moving
- Hold for the command radial in stead of toggle
- Mouse scroll that stops working after using the ' key
- No freelook in vehicles
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11-04-2009, 11:02 AM #4
Re: 04/11 - Skirmish DLC pack and patch announcement
Good Stuff. It looks like they are making a move against the cheating and fixing the issue with shots not registering. Those are my two main beefs.
Also nice is they fixed the bugs with entering vehicles and switching weapons.
And the sway on sniper rifles will make the MP more playable as well.
Well this is good news. They fixed over 50% of my problems.
And added more maps that will just dl from steam, I hope. That way, they'll be easily adopted into play and this will expand and breath some new life into things. all in all, I'm pretty happy.
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11-04-2009, 11:42 AM #5


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Re: 04/11 - Skirmish DLC pack and patch announcement
I wonder if this means I'll be able to hit with the M16? Nothing like watching blood spray a half a dozen times and watching the AI stand there calmly and shoot me in the face.
The grass thing is a two way street, if they can see you then you can see them, it just takes time to learn how to adjust.
It'll be interesting to see how the lag issues play differently with the patch. I've watched my ping creep 60 or 70 points as the game fills up.
I have to agree that not being able to switch weapons while moving or look around while driving are major annoyances so I don't drive and I stick to one weapon primarily. Also, having to come to a dead stop to issue commands. I haven't looked but is there a way to program key strokes for the more common commands?
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11-04-2009, 12:26 PM #6
Re: 04/11 - Skirmish DLC pack and patch announcement
All great improvements, it fixed all the 'main issues', with regard to lag and bullets not registering.
I agree with Ghost Dog that there are still improvements to be made, and his suggestions would make the game play fee ALOT less clunky.
I also came across an interesting comment in the gamespot forums, explaining how the grass 'conceals' you, while not completely hiding you.
http://uk.gamespot.com/pc/action/ope...697&pid=914623
I haven't had time to test this, but it makes sense, if still quite annoying.A.I can still see the movement on the grass, you can see it too for the A.I. if you use binoculars (at last on max settings), so they will obviously fire in your direction but they will miss you most of the time since they don't know your exact position, so you are concealed. For example if you walk in the open you are 90% death in someone spotsyou. In tall grass it's much more difficult to hit you, so concealment DOES work. If you move slower and flank (i..e. the enemy doesn't have direct sight on you) you can sneak on. I tried it many times and it works fine.|TG-189th|PaintScratcher - 189th Infantry Brigade'It’s one of the characteristics of a leader that he not doubt for one moment the capacity of his men to realize whatever he’s dreaming'
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11-04-2009, 12:28 PM #7
Re: 04/11 - Skirmish DLC pack and patch announcement
No you can't, you can hit them if they can hit you, that part is true. Problem is that grass does not block the AI 's FOV, while yours IS blocked. It 's an annoying problem and one of the biggest complaints on the DR forum. I 'm really disappointed that it hasn't been fixed because it 's one of the things I hate most about this game.
Also curious what they mean by this:
The main reason people are lagging online is because barely anyone has a connection at home that supports 32 players. We all know the only real fix is dedicated servers.4. Gameplay online
o Lag issues reduced for 32 players pvp
There do are some positive things on the list like weapon sway for the sniper, the ability to join a private game through the friends list and especially the hit detection that should be fixed but there is A LOT of work to be done.
That is very interesting and probably true. I noticed that when they shoot at you through the grass, they barely hit... but it 's still annoying.
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11-04-2009, 01:17 PM #8
Re: 04/11 - Skirmish DLC pack and patch announcement
Like the rest of you, I have mixed feelings. There does seem to be a considerable amount of fixes on the list, so I think that at least goes to show that they have been working on the game over the past few weeks trying to get things fixed, which is a good sign.
Dedicated servers is obviously what is going to make or break the long-term success of the game. If they do end up committing to that at some point in the future, I imagine that it will take a while to get that implemented. It could be several months or more to add something like that to the game. My hope would be that CM decides to let us all know well in advance that they do have plans to add dedicated servers instead of just being silent about it for several months and then releasing it as a "surprise". I think if they commit to dedicated server support in the long-term and keep pumping out the occasional batch of smaller fixes in 3-4 week increments, they will keep the community thriving, otherwise I'm not so sure.
Personally, I love the game. But even I never realized how important dedicated server are until they were missing. I've been surprised at how easily the lack of dedicated servers can make a great game so impractical to play.
On the AI side of seeing through the grass, it is also a problem for me. The main problem is that even if the fire is not accurate, they still know you are there, which takes away the element of surprise. If you are just 20-25 meters in front of them, and they notice the grass moving and start to fire, that makes sense. But when you are in a forest, 200+ meters away, and they notice the grass moving at that distance, it is a bit unrealistic in my opinion. But I have no real-world military experience, so take that for what it's worth.
I can say from a developer perspective, it is extremely difficult to accurately model what an AI can and can't see. I've worked on that kind of stuff before, and it's pretty challenging. One of the problems is that the more AI logic you add to the game to make vision more realistic, the more you eat into the CPU because that logic gets multiplied when you have 50+ AI in the area. You can really destroy the CPU by doing all the physics calculations on how much light is there at that distance, how much movement, how much of the player is actually physically visible to the AI, how much does the player blend into the environment, which direction is the AI paying attention to, is there anything else going on that would distract the AI like smoke, fire, etc. It's a pretty difficult problem to solve, and it might be a while before games start to get good at that kind of thing. To put things into perspective, it's been 15 years of developments in game physics and we are STILL using crude methods like bounding boxes and hit boxes which often make for some pretty crummy animations and hit detection. It's why when you look closely at a lot of games, you'll notice that player isn't really gripping the gun, but the gun is kind of "floating" in the air about a centimeter or two away from the players hands. Doing that stuff perfectly is just agonizingly difficult.
It's only when a company decides to spend a LOT of time and money on getting those aspects perfect does it really happen, and when they do, they do so at the expense of other things they could have done with that time/money, like more weapons, missions, and other features which tend to be more valued to most players than getting the really small things working perfectly. We are a different type of crowd than the average gamer I think. I think most of us would rather be stuck with an M16 for the entire game and have the shooting work perfectly, than have it so/so with a selection of 100+ guns. But, we are a pretty small market, and if the game was made for people like us in mind, CM would sell what....500 copies? Can't stay in business that way!
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11-04-2009, 04:31 PM #9
Re: 04/11 - Skirmish DLC pack and patch announcement
It was just pointed out to me on the CM forums that the new Anti-Cheating fix will also prevent all third party mods from working. Bummer!
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11-04-2009, 05:04 PM #10
Re: 04/11 - Skirmish DLC pack and patch announcement
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11-04-2009, 11:01 PM #11
Re: 04/11 - Skirmish DLC pack and patch announcement
Check this thread on voice commands in-game. It creates verbally-triggered macros that do what you want. There is a slight hiccup in movement when the command goes through, but it's much faster than doing it manually. That is, if you can get it recognize your voice... only works about half the time for me but I haven't fine tuned the voice recognition yet.
Last edited by Boot; 11-04-2009 at 11:39 PM.
|TG-12th| Boot

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11-05-2009, 08:47 PM #12
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Re: 04/11 - Skirmish DLC pack and patch announcement
Good fixes, but what I still really want to see is the option to disable the AI online. I just don't like the idea of MP with AI being involved in any form.
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11-05-2009, 09:44 PM #13
Re: 04/11 - Skirmish DLC pack and patch announcement
Play 32 man servers and you won't see AI. Well at least for the first map. We have been fooling around and pretty much decided last night to do 2 maps each time we start up to prevent drop out. This means we start up a new server every 30 to 40 minutes and keep it full.
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11-05-2009, 11:59 PM #14


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Re: 04/11 - Skirmish DLC pack and patch announcement
Haven't seen many of you tonight and after hearing so many trivializing the first patch, you got to try it to see the difference.
MP is so much smoother and stable that a server* I would peak at about 140 last night and watch my ping creep upwards as the roster filled never went over 72 tonight and would drop as low as 58. It makes the MP feel like a single player game. I can hit what I'm shooting at and they go down. Its a good first step and I encourage each of you to take this out of the box and give it another try (even without dedicated server's).
*Its not really a server but a host.
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11-06-2009, 12:38 AM #15
Re: 04/11 - Skirmish DLC pack and patch announcement
Some of us who were first to get the game on Steam are still waiting to get the patch tomorrow. I sure more will be on tomorrow night. Looking forward to the first of hopefully more improvements to come.
EDIT: Steam is updating NOW.Last edited by jb4; 11-06-2009 at 01:05 AM.
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