Re: Squad Leader 101

**TG_Rizzo** · 06-27-2005, 09:34 PM

Originally Posted by KeithMann

I play as an SL from time to time, and I'm thinking about starting to experiment with fire teams. I'd like to divide my squad into 2 fire teams. One team's main role is to pin down enemies with suppressive fire. The other team's main role is to flank the enemy and take them out with direct or indirect fire. The biggest problem I'm having here is that 6-man squads are just a tad too small. I like to have 3 men on a fire team, but that means putting the SL and the medic in a dangerous spot one way or the other. In this game, you need to keep the SL alive, and you need to keep the medic near the SL. So, here's what I've come up with:

Suppressive team: support, medic, assault (SL)
Flanking team: assault, assault, anti-tank

Yes, I'm a big fan of the traditional assault class. I wouldn't even bother with anti-tank but there's so much armour in this game you can't live without 'em. Obviously you have to be flexible.

The biggest advantage here is that you can use simple, time-honoured tactics and you only have to issue orders to two teams (as opposed to five people). Another advantage is that even the smallest ground vehicle will hold 3 people...just order your fire teams to stay together and you won't have anyone left behind.

Count me in for some practice. I've wanted to try the same thing and as I've mentioned a million times around here already, I'm an Assault guy at heart so I'm comfortable with sticking with that class as long as it's necessary.

Having specific fireteams makes it easier to micromanage too: "Alpha, move to those trees. Bravo, provide cover." Plus you can practice stuff like wedge movement where everybody knows their place and you can just say "OKay, form a wedge" and the squad knows what to do.

Let's give it a whirl.

**JediPilot** · 06-27-2005, 09:37 PM

Man, I didn't know anyone was around; the forums are DEAD right now

--JP

**Wulfyn** · 06-28-2005, 08:47 AM

Another good reason to form fireteams is when havign to cross open areas under fire. One team lies prone and provides fire. The other team get up and sprint forwards. The rule of thumb is to start counting when you start to stand up, and if you aren't prone again before you say 'three' then you will be dead. Not quite true for BF2 where you can take a heck of a lot of hits, but still not a bad rule. With the SL co-ordinating it means you always have half the squad firing whilst you make territory gains.

Can also be used in a retreat

**JediPilot** · 06-28-2005, 09:05 AM

Yeah I've heard it was 3 to 5 seconds of running. I'm thinking next time I try SL, I AM going to split the team into two elements, but instead of fireteam/assault team, it'll just be for the "bounding overwatch" maneuver, like Wulfyn was saying. Gotta start small here. Thing is.....what kits to give the two elements..........

Man, this game rocks

--JP

**Ski-Racer** · 06-28-2005, 12:28 PM

Originally Posted by JediPilot

Yeah I've heard it was 3 to 5 seconds of running. I'm thinking next time I try SL, I AM going to split the team into two elements, but instead of fireteam/assault team, it'll just be for the "bounding overwatch" maneuver, like Wulfyn was saying. Gotta start small here. Thing is.....what kits to give the two elements..........

--JP

LOL, "I'm up. He sees me. I'm down." 3 to 5 seconds.

One thing that I would like to see more of from squad leaders is the "Move Here" command. I've done a little SL and I was putting a waypoint using the "Move Here" so the squad was assaulting from the flank and not from the front. This is great for avoiding the melee in the middle and getting to the lightly defended rear flags.

FUP = Form-up Point. This is the area just outside the initial flag where you meet everyone, grab vehicles and move out. When you move out is the time to direct arty.

LUP = Lay-up Point. This is the area in the "baffles" (behind and to side) of a flag for the squad to head to and hide out until everyone gets there. This way you all attack at once. Call in the airstrike and move out as soon as the bombs fall. Remember to make your LUP far enough away that the enemy cannot hear vehicles approach. It needs to be in dead space from the flag's point of view.

When we were using a Desert Combat mini-mod for the MFOTs tournament, we could actually modify the ingamemap.dds (mini-map) and I would draw-in our FUP, LUPs, and routes. I would just call out "You take the red route, you take the blue route, and the rest of us take the green route." A little scouting made the FUPs roughly 30 seconds away and everyone converged on the flag at once. Pretty effective. Modifying the ingamemap.dds in BFV caused a punkbuster ban so likely it's not legal in BF2 as well. But the "Move Here" works almost as well. It was legal for MFOTs (so we could number the flags and avoid confusion) but we just took it so much farther.

**JediPilot** · 06-28-2005, 12:43 PM

I only wish you could use "move here" commands more than once, to create a string of waypoints to the final location. Yeah, being able to actually DRAW on the mpa would be multitudes better than the single click we get now.

Question --> since you can select individual memebers of your squad in the squad screen, can you give each member his/her own waypoint?

**KeithMann** · 06-28-2005, 02:29 PM

I agree: interacting with the minimap would be great. Interacting with the HUD would be better...center-clicking on a point to get a quick green "X" visible to your squad, combined with a VoIP order of "move here" would make real-time tactics much simpler and compensate for the fact that, in BF2, no one can see you point.

**Electrocat** · 07-15-2005, 11:24 AM

I have to say that the most effective thing that I have experienced is a good pilot (blackhalk), and three good squad mates hooked into a decent leader.

Good tactics start with a good squad. Respawn at squad leader is the best thing ever. If you have a SL that knows how to stay alive in difficult situations.

New to the Battlefield online thing, but it is a lot of fun when you have good players... when you have a bunch of idiots with thier head up thier bum, well....

if you are reading, Rizzo and Phish you are the best. Had a lot of fun and more then that, got a lot of points plus silver star...

Maybe I can find a good group of guys to show me more of how to do it and win a few more games.

**walrus** · 07-15-2005, 12:39 PM

amen on the Fireteams. When I'm SL, I always create a 1-person Fireteam, mechanized of course, and a 5-person Defensive Bulkhead. The 1-person Fireteam can deploy quickly, has no baggage, and as long as he/she is mindful of KDR (kill death ratio) is never a wasted ticket. In rare cases I will create a second 1-person Fireteam, leaving a 4-person Bulkhead on Defense. Here are some types I use often:

1-person Buggy Recon/Pest, kit = driver's choice (good defense, early warning system, slow/harass enemy convoys)

1-person Tank Blitz, kit = engineer (minor offense, good for assisting another nearby squad, if he/she kills 5 people before dying it was a successful mission)

**StrikeFear** · 07-15-2005, 12:59 PM

Originally Posted by KeithMann

Interacting with the HUD would be better...center-clicking on a point to get a quick green "X" visible to your squad, combined with a VoIP order of "move here" ...

As squad-leader, press and hold "T". Left click the center position of the commo-rose that pops up. Exactly what you're talking about will occur.
"Attack here" order lives in the center position. Other orders are radial options.

Either you had no idea that menu existed, or I am misunderstanding you?

**TG_Rizzo** · 07-18-2005, 04:19 PM

Originally Posted by Electrocat

I have to say that the most effective thing that I have experienced is a good pilot (blackhalk), and three good squad mates hooked into a decent leader.

Good tactics start with a good squad. Respawn at squad leader is the best thing ever. If you have a SL that knows how to stay alive in difficult situations.

New to the Battlefield online thing, but it is a lot of fun when you have good players... when you have a bunch of idiots with thier head up thier bum, well....

if you are reading, Rizzo and Phish you are the best. Had a lot of fun and more then that, got a lot of points plus silver star...

Maybe I can find a good group of guys to show me more of how to do it and win a few more games.

Glad you had fun! For me, that's the ultimate goal (although winning the round is a close 2nd place...!). I just try to keep everybody busy and focused on a single *INTERESTING* goal but, unfortunately, sometimes the CO has different plans...

**Shiner** · 07-19-2005, 01:28 PM

Thanks for the tips guys. I've been trying my hand at the SL role and doing an acceptable, if not stellar job of it. I'm not sure I'm prepared to begin dictating kits, let alone fireteams at this time, but I will definately work on the simple stuff, like not taking point

.

**TG_Snap** · 07-22-2005, 01:20 PM

WEEEKEND IS HERE!!!, I would just like to bump this thread back to the first page : D

**TG_Rizzo** · 07-22-2005, 01:59 PM

Heh, thanks for bump.

I haven't led a squad since getting back from vacation...just been too wiped and I'm just not into it when I'm tired--I'd rather just grunt for an hour or so and then hit the sack.

But I'm trying to catch up on some z's and hope to get my &%$ together again.

**TG_Snap** · 08-12-2005, 08:57 PM

le (bump)

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