Re: Squad Formations

**Strag** · 08-26-2005, 02:37 PM

Originally Posted by TG_Mateo

My thought is that these projects are all well and good, on the private server. If you need to lock a squad to do what you want, then take it there.

And as has been mentioned by many, the Monday night SM-only games on the Private Server are a great place for this.

**John CANavar** · 08-26-2005, 02:41 PM

Originally Posted by TG_Mateo

I think it's not community friendly overall.

So you think that the ONLY way you can serve the community is thru allowing people to get into your squad. Is that so Mateo?

**John CANavar** · 08-26-2005, 02:51 PM

But, I will consider the suggestion. locking the squad when playing on private server and unlocking it for public games. It will require some planning though. With our day-by-day growing SOP, it would be impossible to use the same tactics with new players. Maybe a light-version can be created for public games, still organized but simple enough to learn quickly. I will think about this more...

**Strag** · 08-26-2005, 03:06 PM

Originally Posted by John CANavar

I really liked the idea of "two person buddy team" ! It has great potential for offensive missions. That's the biggest part of the problem in BF2 because game's pace. I may suggest some modifications to it...

Yeah, with the pace of BF2, I think having buddy teams is a lot easier to manage. Having two players work together allows them to keep things pretty simple and intuitive, which is definitely necessary in BF2. Also in BF2, it seems like things generally work best in a squad when the Squad Leader issues general directives to coordinate his/her teams, and then lets the teams handle the rest themselves.

The "wheel of death" idea is just a loose formation based on buddy teams that's geared toward keeping them moving, since movement seems to be a key thing in BF2 that helps you stay alive. Obviously, one great way to keep a group moving around a fixed objective is to make the movement somewhat circular. The squad doesn't need to keep moving in the same direction in the circle the whole time (changing up the rotation direction is probably a good thing), and it certainly isn't going to be a perfect circle, but keeping the general movement going as much as possible while maintaining good spacing between the buddy teams is important. It also keeps your squad firing from constantly changing positions, which can lead to serious confusion for the defenders.

**Mateo** · 08-26-2005, 03:07 PM

Originally Posted by John CANavar

So you think that the ONLY way you can serve the community is thru allowing people to get into your squad. Is that so Mateo?

On server 1? Yes, I think so. The game is very squad focused. Someone logging in won't have the choice to join the MIP, so they won't get a chance to see what you are doing.

Similarly, if they join a non-locked squad, they won't see what you are doing either, unless you are tasked to support their squad.

So how will C-Team/MIP grow? By cherry picking SMs from other teams?

Better yet, how will TG grow (or how will newcomers learn-the question is the same) if all pubs see are locked squads of |TG|members, and open squads of other pubbies?

**John CANavar** · 08-26-2005, 03:10 PM

Well, it didnt take long to get into a dilemma

If you only enjoy playing in a very serious and organized team and you have very limited time to play (~2 nights per week) what you are going to do?

**Mateo** · 08-26-2005, 03:17 PM

Originally Posted by John CANavar

Well, it didnt take long to get into a dilemma

If you only enjoy playing in a very serious and organized team and you have very limited time to play (~2 nights per week) what you are going to do?

Notice I said on public servers (1, 2). Mondays, Wednesdays, and Saturdays are passworded, right? So go ahead and join the servers, and lock your team.

All I am advocating is the absence of locked squads on public servers.

Now, non-locked does not mean non-full. Form the squad, invite others on the server to join.

**Strag** · 08-26-2005, 03:21 PM

Originally Posted by John CANavar

Well, it didnt take long to get into a dilemma

If you only enjoy playing in a very serious and organized team and you have very limited time to play (~2 nights per week) what you are going to do?

(1)You play in your organized team in the SM-only games on the Private Server on Monday nights, and then you

(2)take what you learned from the SM-only games, discuss it here on the forums, and then have one formal team practice a week on the Private Server (inviting other organized OpFor or using part of your own team as OpFor, if it's big enough, as needed) where you practice what needs to be practiced, and improve what needs to be improved.

Also/or:

Originally Posted by TG_Mateo

Notice I said on public servers (1, 2). Mondays, Wednesdays, and Saturdays are passworded, right? So go ahead and join the servers, and lock your team.

**John CANavar** · 08-26-2005, 03:27 PM

Originally Posted by TG_Mateo

On server 1? Yes, I think so. The game is very squad focused. Someone logging in won't have the choice to join the MIP, so they won't get a chance to see what you are doing.

Similarly, if they join a non-locked squad, they won't see what you are doing either, unless you are tasked to support their squad.

So how will C-Team/MIP grow? By cherry picking SMs from other teams?

Better yet, how will TG grow (or how will newcomers learn-the question is the same) if all pubs see are locked squads of |TG|members, and open squads of other pubbies?

Do you know how I found TG? Was it a nice coincidence? Nope

I've been searching for it. Clans, communities, search engines, several forums... I've been thru all these for many years. Now I have a place I can call home.

You are looking into this from one side? What about the other? Everything, all our experience, invitations, discussions are here, on forums ! How difficult it is to open a browser and type www.tacticalgamer.com? once they play on our server (the url is given during map load)

EDIT:
added "once they play on our server"

**MeanDrLily** · 08-26-2005, 04:42 PM

Drifting away from the locked squads discussion, and going back to formations for a minute...

Seeing the 'wheel of death' helped to open my eyes for new ways to play the game. I've always thought of BF2 movement in fairly straight lines and such ("Attack here"). Unlike a line, this concept can be used to both determine how and when the target should be attacked.

If all 6 members are able to find adequate coverage, it might be worthwhile to wait with guns down until a set of recently-spawned OpFor/armor moves out of the area before moving in. The 6 well-hidden members can be recon from all sides, waiting for the verbal strike command from the SL. With the circular shape, everyone is fairly close to the flag (instead of being in a line). That should make capping the flag pretty quick.

I'm thinking of my experience on Oman last night. We were trying to take the flag in the center of the map, but were facing tough resistance. It was a lot of run, die, respawn, run, die, respawn... while we attempted a few different entry points, there was no talk of "Ok, here's the plan -- you guys go here and here, and spot OpFor. When I give the call, start shooting and moving."

Maybe it was about that particular SL (we didn't have a full squad, and direction was minimal). I don't if it's different sometimes, as I am rarely able to get into squads with the more experienced/respected SLs (already full). So maybe the experience is different for others?

Anyway. I'm not slamming anybody. I'm just eager to try some new things.

**Mateo** · 08-26-2005, 04:54 PM

Originally Posted by John CANavar

You are looking into this from one side? What about the other? Everything, all our experience, invitations, discussions are here, on forums ! How difficult it is to open a browser and type www.tacticalgamer.com? once they play on our server (the url is given during map load)

Dude, I'm a CS:S admin.

You have no idea how many "what is the server 2 password threads" or "what is PCS" there are.

And how about the ubiquitous "I've been kicked" threads in BF2?

For most people, the forum search function is broken.

Frankly, the vast bulk of people need to be re-taught how to play once they get here. The natural advantages of TG as a community are not apparent if they are squaded up with other newcomers-they need to get squaded with TG members.

Which is more beneficial to TG: having newcomers playing all night in a pub squad, or 15 minutes in Tarpan's or Bommando's squad?

**Strag** · 08-26-2005, 05:02 PM

Originally Posted by TG_Mateo

Which is more beneficial to TG: having newcomers playing all night in a pub squad, or 15 minutes in Tarpan's or Bommando's squad?

Hell, I was hammered on Foster's after only 10 minutes in Bommando's squad.

Bommando. Australian for Squad Leader.

**John CANavar** · 08-26-2005, 05:51 PM

Mateo,

It seems that our support targets are different.

You choose to educate the random guy playing on our server. in some cases he will not care, in others he will be impressed and join the community

My support target is TG members. The ones already passed the first level and decided to stay here. I try to contribute to organization and knowledge of the community, mostly on forums. Our team offers a certain type of gameplay for TG members who are interested in the concept.

I find quality more important than the quantity and I like to work on details. that's the basis for my target decision.

In my opinion, the good thing about this discussion, was to see that we both try to help this community from different angles. You continue to do what you think is more important and I'll do mine.

**John CANavar** · 08-26-2005, 05:56 PM

Getting back to formations...

Strag,

The first slight modification I would like to propose would be to call it "spiral of death"

keep the circular movement but while you are approaching the target.

**John CANavar** · 08-26-2005, 06:11 PM

Originally Posted by digitalerich

RL tactics:
Fun? Yes.
Practical? Sometimes.
Necessary? Short answer is "No" but they will give you some level of advantage in some cases.

nice sum up digitalerich !

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