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09-17-2005, 01:07 PM #16
Re: Fire Teams
I'm still so green I'm not the most confident SL. I actually enjoy being a cog in a well-oiled TG squad more.
But I do step up into sometimes and when I do I prefer the buddy system or 3 fire team setup. I took this from Rommel's storm trooper tactics in WW1 when he was an infantry commander.
Basically Rommel said he used a assault element, an exploitative element and a suppression element. The ratio of 1:2 assaulting/suppressing is pretty accepted in modern infantry tactics nowadays and derives from this.
But Rommel would use the exploitative and suppressive to joint suppress initially as the assault element advanced. Then when they got a foothold or established a breach, the exploitative team would move in to exploit that momentary tactical positioning advantage. This maintained the 1:2 assault/suppress ratio as the assault and suppressive are both static and providing over-watching fire while the exploitative advanced.
If it went according to plan, you then get a firm base of fire in the breach once the exploitative element arrives and the more cumbersome suppression element can rejoin them. Again, still with that generous 1:2 assault/suppression ratio. Then everyone still in one piece is in position to repeat the process on the next objective.
For BF2 class roles, I work this with dual assaults or assault/medic in the assault element. If I am using ATs, I use an AT and a support in the exploitative element. Finally the suppressive element is me as SL medic to pickup any pieces, with a sniper, medic or preferably an engineer in some vehicle(even a HMMVV with a .50 works to suppress).
Room for any class my squaddies want to play. Spec can sub for assaults if they really want to. The trade off of having the C4 up close and personal with the armor is about equal with losing out on the smoke nades.
That being said I'm rarely ambitious enough to coordinate on this with pub matches on TG as I rarely am in a mood to SL. And as you can see it is sufficiently complicated to explain to a squad. But with the right players on mics it's come together a few times for me.
It is actually surprisingly easy to control as if you are playing assault class, you are in my assault element and you know it when I say "Assault team move here." No fire team to keep straight, or sub leader to find. Just cover your buddy.
Once you see the blanket 1:2 suppressive fire provides, bounding overwatch starts to feel like the desperate last charge of the Light Brigade. 4 sets of eyes covering 2 targets is REALLY effective pre-empting any enemy repelling fire. You got to see it to believe it I suppose. But I've sat back as SL and seen 3 guys snuff out a enemy popping out to shoot before they even acquire the assault element. And once the assaults learn to trust it, they can sprint right for their intended cover without slowing to engage defenders.
And flanking. 3 elements can't help but flank. It's like a full frontal flank attack since there's no sneakiness. Just overwhelming suppressive fire.
Man look at me ramble on. Oh well, food for thought. Any of the TG teams want to polish this up and leave those bloated fire teams and their half suppression behind lemme know. Like I said I'm just a lowly grunt, not really the man for the SL job.Last edited by ABRA; 09-17-2005 at 01:23 PM.
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09-17-2005, 08:45 PM #17
- Join Date
- Jul 2005
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- Charlotte NC
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- 114
Re: Fire Teams
I've been in Rambo's squad a number of times and find the fireteams work pretty well, although it can be a bit confusing especially as you have any turnover in the squad. Rambo has to re-explain the concept and name who is on the red and blue teams. The one thing I'd change in how he does things to make it a bit simpler is to drop the "red" and "blue" names. I (usually) remember I'm with Rambo or the other fireteam but sometimes in the heat of battle it's easy to forget which team is red and which is blue.
I'd probably go with either the team 1+2 naming, or team "alpha" and "bravo" - with 1 / Alpha always being the one with the SL. That would be a bit easier for the squaddies to remember. I'd lean towards Alpha and Bravo, as that would be a bit clearer and quicker to say than "fireteam 2".
ABRA's idea sounds quite good as well. Each guy only has to worry about his "wingman" and the different element names are pretty descriptive. While each battle works out a bit differently than planned depending on a multitude of variables, people familiar with this system would instantly know generally what to do on a CP assault depending on which element they were in. The downside is that 3 elements add that much more to what the SL has to keep up with, especially with "newbs" to the concept.
NCman
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09-18-2005, 04:41 AM #18
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- Aug 2005
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- 25
Re: Fire Teams
Hey Guys/Gals,
I post a lot about Tactics over at BF 2 Tracker, And I really have not been able To get together with you Guys In-game. The Idea of fire teams, Has been around for ages... I think you guys are some of the First to use it in this game good job
Note: Some of this was posted over at BF2 Tracker.com by me
Do you guys use TS? Think.. Create a Squad in the TS. Lets say Red Squad [I think that was the Example above] in the TS, Then in game [BF2] Create 2 Squads (lets say they r the first two squads 1 & 2)/ Named the Squads: Red1 & Red2. Both Red1 & Red2 will be on the TS Channel Red Squad. Lock the Squads & keep the Squads Small/ like 3 man teams. These 2 Squads should fight as 1 Squad [group] but would allow for smaller element movements [as Fire Teams, each FireTeam Leader can issue orders & Waypoins] to use one to suppress an area/ the other to move to the flank, then charge the area from their blind spots. It would be very easy to Communicate being that all 6 players are working in tandom & able to talk to one another because they are in the same channel... well, what do you think
[/B]
Squad lay Outs for RED Squad: let me know what ya think..
OP1:
Red1:
---- SL/AT
---- Assualt
---- Medic
Red2:
---- SL/AT
---- Assualt
---- Support
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Or could Think in terms of Roles/ what is the Function of the Squad:
OP2:
Red1, is to be the Fire Team:
---- SL/Anti-Tank
---- Support [PKM]
---- Medic [La80]
This Team would be good for Suppressing the Assualt Area and lending AT Support/ After Firefight: Rearm/Rehealth/Revive
Red2, is to be the Assualt Team:
---- SL/Spec-Ops [G36C]
---- Assualt
---- Assualt
This Team would be good for Overrunning the Assualt Area/ After Firefight: Can set-up defenses [C4] &/or Blow-up Commander Assets
What do ya guys/gals think?
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09-18-2005, 08:46 AM #19
Re: Fire Teams
Excellent, excellent idea. Hasn't been articulated here that I know of. Be good to get formallized into an SOP complete with TS hotkeys a la the air support SOP.
I'm anti-AT as I think they are useless by themselves. I find you need 2 ATs or an ATpaired with a support to feed ammo for them to be remotely effective at countering armor before it causes significant squad damage. And that reduces your effectiveness to dismounted infantry to such a degree as to cripple your squad.
I prefer to have an engineer in the squad spawning in the rear and bringing up counter-armor as well as denying armor free use of routes into a defended CP with mines(this tactic really pins armor in the open for air strikes as well I find). Those crazy snake eating spec ops and their C4 shouldn't be able to do much to a smart tanker but somehow they do to. But ideally, and not uncommonly on TG servers, you can rely on calling air support. That is what I really like to do. Leave the infantry to counter infantry as they do best.
So my fireteams would be devoit of ATs. For me FT1, surppressive, would be support, engineer(with vehicle), and medic(support draws fire). FT2, would be whatever those players are most comfortable attacking with but ideally 2 assualts and a medic. Bt like I said those snake eaters surprise you so I let them be if they want to take an assualt slot. Same with snipers. Generally I frown upon them but in a surppressive squad their ability to counter-snipe and provide decisive overwatch(getting the kill before the enemy) is pretty worthwhile.
Honeslty as anyone who plays in my squads knows, I'm pretty liberal in letting people play the classes they want. In the end it is a game that I want my squadies to enjoy by not being shanghied into a boring class. But also the one they prefer to play is often the one can provide the most meaningful contributions with.
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09-18-2005, 06:46 PM #20
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- Aug 2005
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Re: Fire Teams
I love SL, its a lot of fun even if you dont get as many points because I use Hang Back Tactics. So you Guys like the TS Squad/ 2 Squad as FireTeams? It works like a charm
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09-18-2005, 07:04 PM #21
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Re: Fire Teams
To have fireteams you really have to know how to work them, though. I once had a squad leader who had two fireteams, and it was total disaster because the squad never accomplished anything.
But when used correctly it's very good!
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09-19-2005, 03:17 AM #22
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- Aug 2005
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Re: Fire Teams
It really is not that hard. A lot of it has to do w/ the SL's or FTL's understanding of Strats & Tacs [RL exp helps, as well as historical knowledge of Tactics]. lol, Watch the History Channel, lol. I love it. have fun guys/gals
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09-19-2005, 03:36 AM #23
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- Aug 2005
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Re: Fire Teams
It really depends on your Mission [what you want to do, i.e. Anti-Infantry, Anti-Armor, Offense, Defense, blow-up Commander Assets, etc.]. You just got to build the Squad for what you need or what you want to do. I dont get pissed off if some1 in my Squad does not get the right Kit but, I do try to let them know my intentions & the Squad Composition that Im looking for. The right Squad Compositions on the right Maps are Devastating.
Originally Posted by ABRA
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09-19-2005, 09:41 AM #24
Re: Fire Teams
A SOP for defining fireteams and communicating effectively would be a good idea. Also a few suggestions for composition of fireteams might help in creating standard FT behaviours.
For instance, a few weeks ago I was in a squad split up into two three man fireteams to defend two bases. When one came under attack, the other fire team would move in to provide support ASAP. The two FT's were similar in composition and behaviour as they both had the same purpose.
On the other hand, I've had some great success in a squad set up like this:
FT1: Assault, Assault, Support
FT2: SL/Spec ops, Medic, AT
FT1 would lead the way and initiate the attack. FT2 would hold back a small distance and provide cover and backup. The AT and medic were much more effective as they were kept alive for a larger portion of the map and could act immediately when it was time to work.
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09-19-2005, 09:45 AM #25
Re: Fire Teams
The SOPs are something which all players should aim and try to use, and which maximize effectiveness while playing. IMO, the usefulness of fireteams is still under debate, and as such they should not be made an SOP. However, I really like all your ideas, and look forward to trying them when I SL.

[conduct][volun][drill][sg-c1][tpf-c1]
|TG-2nd|munchkin
Nec aspera terrent.
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10-04-2005, 02:38 AM #26
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- Aug 2005
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- 25
Re: Fire Teams
oh yeah there, it has been awail. For the FireTeam that is to act as a distaction, FT1 the Support's MG is great [tracers get the ENY's head down but says focus on me]. The FT2 can then Finish them off from the Flank
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10-04-2005, 02:42 AM #27
Re: Fire Teams
I was in a squad a couple of days ago where the SL and a couple of guys were defending and Santa was out in a tank commanding the rest of the squad elsewhere. Because I was in the defending team it was somewhat boring. And I guess it was not really two teams working together but rather a split squad, so I'll stop here. Good night.
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10-04-2005, 11:33 AM #28
Re: Fire Teams
I've done split squad many times and it usually works out pretty well. I play commander once in awhile and having squads split up sometimes is EXTREMELY helpful. For example if you are defending a base and the assaults are pretty light or almost non existent, I will ask the squad to send 2 guys to take another flag close by that is empty. It usually works fine unless the SL doesn't know what I am talking about. For example:
"SL please send two of your men to capture this point, it is undefended"
*marks waypoint*
"...wait, what do you want me to do?"
"split your squad and just send 2 guys to that location I just marked, the flag is empty, they can rejoin you once they have taken it"
*silence*
*entire squad moves out to attack the flag I marked*
I don't understand why it is so hard to comprehend that, but this has happened to me many times. Maybe even about 40% of the time. This sort of situation also happens to me as SL. On Mushtuur I like to take and hold both the Mosque and backyard (flag just south of the Mosque) because it is easy to defend both. I have tried splitting my squad into two groups to accomplish this, absolute confusion ensues. I would do it like this:
"Squad Member 1, Squad member 2, and squad member 3, stay here and defend this flag, everyone else on me."
I would then proceed to explain that we are defending two flags so I have split the squad. People just don't get it, and they won't tell you either, they will just follow you like you didn't just tell them to stay put and defend. Then if you call them out, they are still confused no matter how much you explain to them and you must send someone else in their place. This is just an example if ONE guy doesn't get it, worse if it's more.
Hmm, looks like I kind of ranted :/ well I was just trying to figure out why it is such a hard concept, I really think the only way I will ever be able to get FT's or split squads to work is if my squad is mostly TG or people from these boards. I will however try my best to do fireteams next time I play.[gchq-c1]-[squadl]-[conduct]
Bf3 username - Stilich0
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10-07-2005, 04:40 AM #29
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- Aug 2005
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Re: Fire Teams + some other stuff :)
That is funny as hell. In someways I have gotten away from doing it on Pubs but for my Clan, I have some insane structures for Battlebuddy Teams, FireTeams, Squads. I do not always set my Squad into 2 FTs but instead sometimes 3 BTs or other configs. Have fun.
Originally Posted by Hero
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