Re: "providing a spawnpoint"

**Ol'Smoke** · 09-13-2005, 02:14 AM

I agree that having a pointman would be ideal. But it never seems to work. I have never seen it in action, ever!

My points is, in the ABSENCE of a pointman, wouldn't it be better to act as a pointman yourself? If you don't have a pointman, everybody is gonna wait for each other to attack and nothing happens. I have seen that happen so many times.

And one more word about diciding on the situation. I know that's it's important, but if I say: "ok final word is it's dependant on the situation", that pretty much means the end of the discussion.

**Phelan Ward** · 09-13-2005, 02:42 AM

The idea behind pointman is that he gets shot first. Not REALLY, but thats what happens, I'm only being realistic. Personally I would rather as both an SL or a grunt, that the SL not be the first person to die.

**Ol'Smoke** · 09-13-2005, 02:56 AM

edit, sorry

**Preston85** · 09-15-2005, 07:39 PM

So in my understanding you are saying that the extra firepower that 1 person (the squad leader) can provide to a 6man+SL squad is enough to beat the enemy in 1 attack?

I really can't see this as a valid arguement, having a increase in fire power of 1/6th isn't enough to safely say the battle will be won first engagement.

But if the SL acts as a spawn point (no reason he can not put down some cover fire if the lay of the land permits it to be done relitivly safely) if say 2 people get shot at first contact they will be back in the battle in 30 seconds. his position should be tactically superior to the position being assaulted, this can be height or cover. I treat the green dot as a additional flag, it is a important strategic location that needs to be protected. Squad kits can be changed if the situation requires, so you are customising your squad in under a minute to create the most effective squad to meet your objective.

If the SL is 1 of those people shot, then the rest of the squad HAS to take that flag or it will take 2 or 3 minutes to get the whole squad back to assaulting that point, during that time C4/Mines/Claymores can be reset, snipers posted, armour spawned so on and so on.

In conclusion, the increase in fire power that having the SL in the front lines comprimises the speed that re-enforcements can arrive when casualties are (and will) taken and allows the enemy to reset its defences, loosing you any advantage you gained in the initial assault.

**bizarro** · 09-16-2005, 06:48 PM

Originally Posted by DigitalAssassin

Paging an admin...can we get this thread closed? We all have our opinions on this, no need to keep tossing them back and forth. Thanks.

Why do you want to close that discussion??? I think its very interesting.

**kornkobcom** · 09-16-2005, 06:56 PM

Besides, a SL getting killed in action is a primary reason for a Squad getting fragmented. If the SL goes down and 1 or 2 members of his squad are driven off by superior forces, you could end up with a SL a klik away from a third of his squad.

A squad scattered across the map is pretty ineffective.

**[USEF]Kicker** · 09-17-2005, 07:06 AM

Alot of good points in this thread!

In my personal experience as a dedicated SL ... hanging back (not hiding out of view) and providing overwatch and spotting incoming threats and even engaging and killing them has gotten me alot farther with the squad rather than capping with them... but this is MY experience.

One thing an SL MUST know is the terrain. Where to enter a flag zone and what "points" to watch over... Having an SL outside of the intital attack imo provides a better over view of the battle. Most fresh respawns of the opfor will look right to the flag being assaulted, if the SL is in the correct overwatch position he is automaticly flanking the opfor and able to engage\spot targets quite easily....

While I agree that some flags require a SL to be in the middle of the fray, I think the majority of the time the squad will be more sucsessful with a SL overlooking the battle but NOT hiding from the battle.

Just my experience

**Wulfyn** · 09-17-2005, 07:38 AM

[quote[In my personal experience as a dedicated SL ... hanging back (not hiding out of view) and providing overwatch and spotting incoming threats and even engaging and killing them has gotten me alot farther with the squad rather than capping with them... but this is MY experience.[/quote]

This is my experience too.

(ps - I fairly often set a pointman if we are travelling as infantry only across a distance, it's safer, a lot quicker, and helps keep the squad working together).

**Leffty** · 09-17-2005, 07:59 AM

Kicker says "In my personal experience as a dedicated SL ... hanging back (not hiding out of view) and providing overwatch and spotting incoming threats and even engaging and killing them has gotten me alot farther with the squad rather than capping with them... but this is MY experience."

I couldn't agree more. everyones style is different but I feel the SL can be very effective hanging back a little but still engaged. Remember, the enemy has no legitimite way of identifying the SL. With that in mind hanging back, lobbing a grenade or 2, "medium" range sniping and in general, supporting the push from a distance can give that extra firepower that Powersmoker is talking about. And if While doing this the SL chooses his shots carefully and mostly kills those he shoots at, he in theory should not recieve a whole lot of return fire. If he does, fall back to better cover, flank left or right 50 meters, and repeat. Of couse every situation is different, but in general I feel hanging back, only hiding when the enemy are focused on you, can give the best of both worlds.

**Ol'Smoke** · 09-17-2005, 09:35 PM

The main reason why I like to lead the attack is that squads don't attack unless it has a leader wich it can follow. They will wait on each other.

You can say: "Guys attack now!!!" And one of them will charge and be killed alone.
Then you say "Attack all at once guys, hurry" And they will look at you stupidly, jumping up and down a few times, and then be killed from the back by a sniper.
It doesn't work. You gotta give the example, or nothing will happen.

**AzrealDarkmoon** · 09-17-2005, 11:07 PM

Maybe its like that on a public server, but as an SL on TG I RARELY encounter times in which my men do not have the focus to attack. Sometimes sure it gets fragmented, this is most often though when I die and we spawn on different points.

Az

**[USEF]Kicker** · 09-17-2005, 11:22 PM

Well... sounds like we need 2 threads for this topic now.

1. Squad play for clans\regulars
2. Squad play for pubs

Though both types of squad play can carry common elements ... ie voice communication, commo rose, squad loadout, etc etc...BUT they can playout in battle VERY differently.

Powersmoker-

The main reason why I like to lead the attack is that squads don't attack unless it has a leader wich it can follow. They will wait on each other

On pubs with squadies that dont know eachother, no VOIP, limited squad experience.. etc etc this method of leading the charge will help.. I agree with you Powersmoker, but with squadies that play together on a regular basis... the squad and SL play can be quite different and MUCH more fluid. Commands become less necessary and battle sometimes goes into autopilot because everyone knows what to look for and generally what to do. All the SL needs to do is inform the squad of threats and changes in the battle that the squad might not see.

I feel myself getting ready to type a long reply here so I will end it here for now... =)

PS.. I think the TG community is just quality!

Take care!

-Kicker

**Ol'Smoke** · 09-17-2005, 11:52 PM

I agree with one sidenote.
The squadplay at tacticalgamer, while waaay better then on publics, isn't as organized as you describe. Exceptions may include the pre-formed squads like 42nd.
For the organization level currently found on TG, I'd still recommend leading by example.

**Wulfyn** · 09-18-2005, 06:26 AM

Hmmm... in my experience with attacking flags the most niggly thing I have is not getting my squad to attack, but getting them to hold off on an attack when I want to just wait a second before timing it (and this is with pick up people on the servers, not as the 42nd).

I dunno... I can see your point in a way powersmoker, but am finding it hard to relate to it fully as I just haven't experienced it like this for a long long time. (ie I'm not saying it doesn't happen, just that because it doesn't happen to me I am finding it difficult to get on board with your point).

However this may be due to my style, in which I normally name the kits I want to do what. Maybe it's just that we need to have specific orders rather than general orders "guys get on the flag" compared with "support and lemon on the flag, everyone else cover, assault search the building to the north" etc etc.

**kornkobcom** · 09-18-2005, 03:33 PM

Smoker, having never led and only ever been a Squaddie on the TG servers, I'd have to say that many of the squads I have been on have been that organized. Not all, by a long shot but most of the time I get solid, specific instructions from TG Squad Leaders.

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