"providing a spawnpoint"

**Ol'Smoke** · 09-12-2005, 12:52 PM

Please guys, don't use this "tactic". You're so much more effective if you lead your squad, keeping them together. That's what a squad is all about, working as a unit.
If you hide and send your squad away you get the most unorganized gameplay possible.

**Shiner** · 09-12-2005, 01:05 PM

I find "leading" a squad is sometimes easier from a location just outside the firefight. This allows me to call in UAV's & Arty as well as keep my conversations up with the commander and direct my squadies based on what I see. My efficiency in doing all of these things drops dramatically when I'm fighting for my life & or dead.

Also, by staying out of the action I don't need a medic to remain at my side, so he/she can be healing those guys in the real battle.

IMHO a disorganized squad isn't based on the SL failing to "lead" in the physical sense but failing to "lead" by communicating to his troopers.

**JMJ** · 09-12-2005, 01:08 PM

So I should just lead the charge with my squad, die with my squad, then spawn 300m away with my squad to do it all over again?

I will agree with you to a point, but a SL is really only as effective at assaulting as his medic will allow him to be. If you have a good medic and he revives you under any conditions, then you can be right on the assault with your guys. If your medic doesn't stick by you like he should, then you need to be more cautious. I have had several occassions where I had a "rookie" medic and he couldn't seem to revive me when I needed it. These are the instances where I adapt to the situation and try to find a good spot to provide a spawn as well as lay down some sniper fire on opposing members. These rookie medics expressed a desire to play the kit and work at it and I am not about to deny them the opportunity. Gotta work with and help the newbies, right?

I have played a lot of defense and I can honestly say that I haven't seen many SL's who are leading the charge. Most will stay back a bit with the medic and approach with caution. I can easily remember at least a dozen times where we have killed a handful of guys and found the SL/medic on the other side of a building. I DO NOT consider it a lame/cheesy tactic by any means. If EA didn't want these types of things to happen then they wouldn't have let the SL be a spawn point.

Always remember, the careless SL is the one who will end up yelling "MEDIC!" right beside his squad after being taken out by defensive C4.

**Limenote** · 09-12-2005, 01:16 PM

the best squad leaders are the ones with a presence of authority, they know when to take cover and when to physically lead their troops into battle, if youve ever played with such guys are beatnik,B,jmj or wulfyn you would realise that staying alive to keep you squad in the game is imperative to completing the objective and is also cruicial to the moral of the squad, i mean who wants to run to the CP, get gunned down then repawn and do it all again repeatedly, squadleading (atleast in my eyes) is taking one step back from physical contact but putting that left boot further into the true strategy of the game,

**El_Gringo_Grande** · 09-12-2005, 01:25 PM

Yea, I don't like it much if I had to hoof it clear across a map only to be taken out by an ambush and start all over again. The only thing I would agree with is if the SL constantly stays in one spot that gives him/her protection but allows no real attacking (or defending) lanes for the rest of the squad. (I have done this as SL and my squad payed for it dearly. They didn't complain, but probably should have.)

The best SLs, IMO, are the ones that stay back and move to a position that gives the squad the best position depending on the situation/objective.

**kornkobcom** · 09-12-2005, 01:28 PM

Taking any absolute stance on this is silly. Sometimes it makes sense for the SL to get into the fray. Sometimes the SL needs to drop back out, let his killed soldeirs respawn and regroup.

Another common misconception is that the commander should never be out of the overhead view. That just doesn't take into account the situations where the opposite is true.

**JMJ** · 09-12-2005, 01:28 PM

Originally Posted by El_Gringo_Grande

The best SLs, IMO, are the ones that stay back and move to a position that gives the squad the best position depending on the situation/objective.

Beatnik is excellent at this. When we are defending a flag, he's right in the mix with everyone else, but the second it looks like we are losing the flag, he'll go into defensive mode so we can mount up an attack to get the flag back.

**Ol'Smoke** · 09-12-2005, 03:16 PM

You are all assuming that a squadleader is safer when he stays back. I don't think so,
the reason is that a squad leader that stays back is alone and isn't protected by his squadmembers.

IMO a good squad should stay closely together, the same way a squad in a game of Rainbow Six, or SWAT operates. This can only be achieved by having a pointman that is closely followed. The squadleader is naturally the pointman. Off course ideally another member should take point, but I have yet to see this working out in practice.

**jament** · 09-12-2005, 03:21 PM

Let me defend medics by saying that I've tried to stick with SL's that get killed when an opposing squad overruns our position, then yell "I need a revive" over and over while 3 guys are standing over his body. I'm more likely to try to revive an SL while taking fire as compared to other squad members, but getting killed and having the SL die on revive is just a waste of tickets.

**Limenote** · 09-12-2005, 03:24 PM

thats the thing, so many real life tactics and strats just dont add up once inside the game, besides, battlefield is not a close combat infantry game primarily, so many factors effect footmen that it is often a bad idea to stay back to back, so many explosives and splash damage weapons that can take you all out in a heartbeat it often just isnt a vaild tactic, oh yes and whos forgetting artilley, i mean honestly

**Ol'Smoke** · 09-12-2005, 03:38 PM

I'm not talking about real life tactics, let me clear that out.

I'm talking from experience. When I first started playing BF2 (after many years of BF1) my immediate reaction was to stay back and provide a spawnpoint. It's a obvious tactic.
But later I tried moving in as a unit, and just getting under the flag as a squadleader, while I told my squad to follow me as closely as possible. I quickly found out that it's a better way of attacking a base. The difficulty of accepting this tactic is that it contradicts with most peoples instinct. You got to see it for yourself.

**Apophis** · 09-12-2005, 03:53 PM

I think this game is just too dynamic to have any single set way of doing it. Sometimes going in with the team makes sense, sometimes staying back and providing a spawn point makes sense. It all changes based on the level of enemy resistance, available assets, equipment, terrain, and importance of the objective.

To label any one method as "THE" way to do it would be an injustice.

**Limenote** · 09-12-2005, 03:59 PM

from experience i can tell you that rushing the flag as a squadleader gets you killed, mabe it works for you and thats great but theres no instinct in it, the tactics developed and the way squads work now is the result of the evolution in strategies over the period of the games life, staying back and providing a spawn point has been proven to be more effective and thats why its so widley used, theres no arguing that, of course as already stated there are times when leading head-strong into the fight is a perfectly legit tactic, though i just cant take your word for it being effective more than 20% of the time.

edit: but as apo says, the game is so dynamic you cant just slap a label on the ONE way to do things, in oman you wont catch me within 2 feet of the next but on karkand for instance im all about sticking together and a close nit unit. though most maps favour large scale warefare, hence my support of the "hold back respawn tactics"

**Faultline** · 09-12-2005, 04:00 PM

Originally Posted by kornkobcom

Taking any absolute stance on this is silly. Sometimes it makes sense for the SL to get into the fray. Sometimes the SL needs to drop back out, let his killed soldeirs respawn and regroup.

Agreed.

**Ol'Smoke** · 09-12-2005, 04:11 PM

Let's stop judging tactics on the number of people that use it. I think that isn't a good arguement.
You say staying back improves you're chance of capturing a base. I want to know why.

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