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Discussion: PR:BF2 / PR:BF2 - Tactics & SOPs - Initiative in Squad Members - A good thing or bad? - In my experience, squads work at their peak capacity if everyone takes a bit of
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10-05-2005, 10:55 PM #1
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Initiative in Squad Members - A good thing or bad?
In my experience, squads work at their peak capacity if everyone takes a bit of initiative by doing things such as securing an area, c4ing a flag and reconning the perimeter without being told. However, I recognise that others may hold different views. What do you like to see in your squad members?
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|TG-2nd|munchkin
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10-05-2005, 11:02 PM #2
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Re: Initiative in Squad Members - A good thing or bad?
i like to see guys who are wiling to just go at it....follow me into the thick and get the work done. As a CO i have been known to give SL's the freedom to take the job they think in game is more important. Meaning..if they see somethin in the area of their operation do it. I think the other night in Karkland i told Bommando he was incharge of the center of the map and to keep it clean. i guess some guys can play like that and others cant.
do what you feel is correct and if it works for you do it, the worst then that can happen is a squadmember will leave.that sounds like a good idea trooper.
-Vulcan
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10-06-2005, 12:19 AM #3
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Re: Initiative in Squad Members - A good thing or bad?
One thing that I've noticied is that many times in a squad no one will take an area of responsibility. For example, if you have to hold a flag each person should have an area that they are responsible for. Once the action starts and a person is dropped, another should fill in that area if possible. Often times people will move to the action and leave the "rear" exposed.
"If the sword is always sheathed, it will become rusty, the blade will dull, and people will think as much of its owner." —Yamamoto Tsunetomo, Hagakure: The Book of the Samurai
I prefer a challenge and teamwork rather than a stat loading server without sound tactical ideals.
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10-06-2005, 12:30 AM #4
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Re: Initiative in Squad Members - A good thing or bad?
I like initiative in my squad members. People who aren't locked onto one kit and after a death come back with an appropriate kit for the situation. I don't micromanage, but haven't made it into a squad where they do (I have tried as I want to see other styles). I like innovative squad members, ones who try different and new things. I learn more from watching my squad mates then from stumbling acrossed something myself.
Lucky Shot
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10-06-2005, 01:11 AM #5
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Re: Initiative in Squad Members - A good thing or bad?
I like initiative on offense.
On defense I micromanage. Deal with it. I often have specific plans in mind, and while initiative is a good thing I like a semblance of following the plan, at least at the beginning. If I say 'person X, go support and provide an overwatch of that area' I don't want the guy to take some initiative and instead cover some weakness (whether real or not) he perceives in my plan. The time to take the initiative is when the initial plan has begun to unravel.
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10-06-2005, 01:16 AM #6
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Re: Initiative in Squad Members - A good thing or bad?
I agree, defense should be micromanaged, especcially with C4 and mine placement. Initiative is best on offense, but make sure you announce what your doing thats deviating from the plan so that the SL and the rest of the squad members can adapt.
Originally Posted by jepzilla
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10-06-2005, 01:29 AM #7
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Re: Initiative in Squad Members - A good thing or bad?
I do this but I will always ask permission to change kits if I am using a kit because the SL asked me to. Originally Posted by Lucky Shot
I also try to take initiative in my placement of person on the map or anything else but I also feel bad if the SL asks me to do something else. Like I was screwing up or something.
But I also love it when the SL says, "Bodies on the flag" or "someone get on the flag, there is C4." Hell, send me...I am the lemming!Last edited by Pickle; 10-06-2005 at 02:18 AM.
"Umm Deputy these aren't my pants" - Common alarm cry of the North American Crackhead
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10-06-2005, 02:47 AM #8
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Re: Initiative in Squad Members - A good thing or bad?
I like playing with all types of players, but playing with a squad full of players with the appropriate amount of initiative can make the squad very lethal.
By appropriate amount I mean knowing their role on the team and actively contributing toward the objective without being told to. Like when defending, the spec ops lays c4 on the flag or at a choke point, engineers take care of mines and damaged armor, and medkits and ammo is on the flag you're defending, etc. On offense, I try to let them know the context around the objective (going after the MEC main on Karkand to suppress their commander), which allows for initiative or improvization on their part in getting there. And everyone should be spotting everything they see... stuff like that.
There is such a thing as too much initiative (which I sometimes have if I'm a squad member), when squad members may not work as tightly with the squad as I'd like, but that's rare.
I think most of us are to the point where we know the finer details of the different kits and the game itself. When all cylinders are hitting and you're mowing down bad guys because everyone is actively contributing, that's where the game's at it's best.Beatnik
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10-06-2005, 10:48 AM #9
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Re: Initiative in Squad Members - A good thing or bad?
The difference between 'initiative' and 'reckless disregard for squad cohesion' is a fine line that starts with one thing: an understanding of your leadership's intent.
So long as the action someone is taking falls within your understanding of the SL's intent (or the CO's intent if you are a SL) then you are taking initiative.
The key point here is this: a leader is as culpable as the team member in that they need to make clear their intent so that their team understands how much 'initiative' to take.
So before a CO ro SL gets upset at someone running off and 'doing their own thing' it is important that they take an impartial look at their own behavior and ask themselves 'have I been communicating my intent to my team clearly?'.
Just as a team member needs to ask themselves before they take independant action "is what I am about to do in accordance with my understanding of my leader's intent?"Kornkob
I want to move to Theory. Everything works in Theory.
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10-06-2005, 11:07 AM #10
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Re: Initiative in Squad Members - A good thing or bad?
I agree with both of you. I'm quiet on offense, but when it comes to defense I do tend to micromanage because I usually have a plan in mind for us to keep hold of the flag. I've never had issues, people seem to do quite well with it. One thing I really like to see on offense is when my guys spread out on the attack so we come from multiple angles. Originally Posted by TG_Santa
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10-06-2005, 11:28 AM #11
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Re: Initiative in Squad Members - A good thing or bad?
I've got to admit, I sometimes micromanage attacks too. How much initiative I want and how much freedom I'll give depends on how effective the squad is. If everybody is working well and we're accomplishing our objectives easily I'm going to be pretty relaxed about it, but if we're having trouble I'll start micromanaging attacks too, telling people to get into certain positions, or breaking the squad into fire teams and directing approaches. What's annoying is when I do that and tell one fireteam to get into position and wait for my order before moving in, they just assault the flag immediately. Originally Posted by JMJ
Heh, in retrospect I probably come off as a total control freak when I'm SL. :P
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10-06-2005, 12:39 PM #12
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Re: Initiative in Squad Members - A good thing or bad?
I almost never micromanage my squad, offensively or defensively. I expect my squad members to know they should mine a flag or C4 or a flag that we are defending if they are the right kit for it; I'll remind them if they don't do it but I want them to make it a habit. Squad leaders who micromanage aren't bad or anything, but I want my squads to work because each and every person in them knows what they should be doing and how they should do it, not because they let the squad leader tell them to.
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10-06-2005, 01:47 PM #13
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Re: Initiative in Squad Members - A good thing or bad?
Yeah I'd like to think I'm not a micromanager (on offense, at least) but it does depend on how well the squad's performing. If we keep getting beat down, I'll try to step it up and change up our tactics. I guess a general rule I try to use is to give people as much discretion as possible, while still accomplishing our objectives. It can be a fine line some times, but that's part of the fun of being SL. Originally Posted by jepzilla
I've got to admit, I sometimes micromanage attacks too. How much initiative I want and how much freedom I'll give depends on how effective the squad is. If everybody is working well and we're accomplishing our objectives easily I'm going to be pretty relaxed about it, but if we're having trouble I'll start micromanaging attacks too, telling people to get into certain positions, or breaking the squad into fire teams and directing approaches. What's annoying is when I do that and tell one fireteam to get into position and wait for my order before moving in, they just assault the flag immediately.
Heh, in retrospect I probably come off as a total control freak when I'm SL. :P
Beatnik
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10-06-2005, 06:57 PM #14
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Re: Initiative in Squad Members - A good thing or bad?
As a squad member, I find it works best for me when the SL tells me exactly what we need to do. When defending especially. At the same time, it keeps the game interesting when your SL cuts you a little slack sometimes. But most of the time, if the battle is intense-- shoot me some orders!
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10-06-2005, 09:23 PM #15
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Re: Initiative in Squad Members - A good thing or bad?
Beatnik's orders - Text book attack guys Originally Posted by Beatnik
Yeah I'd like to think I'm not a micromanager (on offense, at least) but it does depend on how well the squad's performing. If we keep getting beat down, I'll try to step it up and change up our tactics. I guess a general rule I try to use is to give people as much discretion as possible, while still accomplishing our objectives. It can be a fine line some times, but that's part of the fun of being SL.
Everyone - OK!
20 seconds later, objective complete
Beatnik's orders - Defense time, C4 the flag, man all armor
Everyone - OK!
Never lost the flag
Beatnik's orders - Lets attack the center flag now, you know what to do
Everyone - Roger that
20 seconds later, objective complete
Beatnik is too good, all he has to do now is tell people where to attack, sit back and watch. Everyone seems to know their roles and what to do. It seems like when I play in your squad everybody just seems so well connected because you are the Squad Leader. Good job Beatnik and keep up the good work.
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