Re: AA is underrated

**StrikeFear** · 10-07-2005, 01:33 AM

Man, that's a REALLY good question, Arf!

Concerning Jepzilla:
"You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to jepzilla again."
Damn.

Deterrence is crucial.

Sarc - you can't ignore the AA. But the AA is an all-or-nothing proposition. Any 1 AA station is just a sitting duck for me. But man up 3 of them, and now I'm chasing my tail trying to get a safe 1.5 seconds so I can possibly line up a shot. I'm nearly incapacitated, and I'll be happy if I can just get OUTTA THERE with my plane in one piece.
Add to that a fighter on my tail, and I'm gonna need to change my flight suit after I bail.
You get it now?

**MilesTeg** · 10-07-2005, 02:05 AM

I don't think manned stationary AA should be highligted for jets if they're in air-to-ground mode. I mean the damn thing isn't radiating as it's a purely passive system of acquiring targets and to have them highlighted gives away any doubt as to whether or not they're manned.

**icky** · 10-07-2005, 02:09 AM

Originally Posted by Arf

Dalian plant has at least 5, most of the maps with jets have 6 static AA locations (Oman, Wake, and maybe Zatar have 6) at the flags.

Oh man, you sucked me into checking...

Code:

Map                Fixed AA  Mobile AA
Dalian Plant          7          0
Daqing Oilfields      5          5
Dragon Valley         8          2
Fushe Pass            6          2
Gulf of Oman          8          0
Kubra Dam             4          3
Mashtuur City         2          0
Op. Clean Sweep       6          0
Songhua Stalemate     2          0
Wake Island           7          0
Zatar Wetlands        5          2

I think this is accurate. Let me know if you see an error.

Also, don't forget the Essex guns on maps with carriers.

**Arf** · 10-07-2005, 03:42 AM

Hmm, I wasn't counting the AA inside UCBs. So not counting the mobile AAs, I don't always remember where those spawn...

I know Wake has 9 static AAs in total.

2 on the Essex
5 for every flag
1 between the airfield and northern base
1 at the USMC artillery

Gulf of Oman: 9
2 on the Essex
5 on every flag but the construction yard
2 in the MEC UCB

Dragon Valley: 10
2 on the Essex
6 all but 4 flags have AA
2 on the island

**munchkin** · 10-07-2005, 04:18 AM

Originally Posted by StrikeFear

Concerning Jepzilla:
"You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to jepzilla again."
Damn.

Yeah, that annoys the hell outta me :/
Must...give....more!

**=Sarc=** · 10-07-2005, 05:45 AM

Ok, I'll need a map of the AA because I have never seen many of them around. Maybe I'm not playing enough. I still think there need to be more than what's been reported. I would put around 2 per base plus some mobile AA.

**StrikeFear** · 10-07-2005, 09:08 AM

Clean Sweep spawns a Mobile AA if the MEC owns the CP which controls the small airstrip.

**warcriminal2** · 10-07-2005, 10:13 AM

Definately underrated, alot of times when im standing there waitin for the flag to flip and its within range of the pole, ill man the AA. Its good at driving approaching choppers away. I also like to use the scope to spot jets and whatever else I can for my jets and choppers. Besides harrasing the hell outa the enemys above there is usually a good chance my air assetts will finish him off. Then when the flag is secured, prep the area and move on. I am a bit disappointed EA didnt do a little better on them though.

ohh and not sure if it helps but heres a map of dalian

**Virigoth** · 10-07-2005, 12:54 PM

[QUOTE==Sarc=]
Something to consider is manning AA and being repeatedly killed is not fun. It's even worse than defending because all you do is watch a respawn timer instead of scanning for targets. I've had SL's that often task squaddies with boring jobs but they are considerate enough to know it can be boring and will switch jobs between the squad.
[QUOTE]

This is excatly why AA placments are always empty. An AA operator has a lifespan of about 30s in me experience. You either get bombed, strafed, TV missiled, sniped, knifed, or blow apart by armor since for all intents and purposes you are a sitting duck harmless to everything but choppers.

One thing to consider is that if you have EVERY AA site manned on the map (as in you hold every CP, so most likely you have air superiority anyway) each operator is still vulnerable to ground attack. You might not get bombed and strafed so much, but they will drop like flies to ground forces.

PS. From the BF2 global stats of top AA users, AA has a near 50% TK ratio. So in fact whenever you become effective deterrent to enemy, you are also just as effective at killing your own airforces.

**BHack** · 10-07-2005, 01:00 PM

[QUOTE=Virigoth][QUOTE==Sarc=]
Something to consider is manning AA and being repeatedly killed is not fun. It's even worse than defending because all you do is watch a respawn timer instead of scanning for targets. I've had SL's that often task squaddies with boring jobs but they are considerate enough to know it can be boring and will switch jobs between the squad.

This is excatly why AA placments are always empty. An AA operator has a lifespan of about 30s in me experience. You either get bombed, strafed, TV missiled, sniped, knifed, or blow apart by armor since for all intents and purposes you are a sitting duck harmless to everything but choppers.

One thing to consider is that if you have EVERY AA site manned on the map (as in you hold every CP, so most likely you have air superiority anyway) each operator is still vulnerable to ground attack. You might not get bombed and strafed so much, but they will drop like flies to ground forces.

PS. From the BF2 global stats of top AA users, AA has a near 50% TK ratio. So in fact whenever you become effective deterrent to enemy, you are also just as effective at killing your own airforces.

That last bit is an interesting statistic. Wonder how it will change now that 1.03 is out. And one of the reasons its so deadly to friendlies is because you don't get the "attempting to lock" warning.

**SilverStealth89** · 10-07-2005, 04:14 PM

AA is a temporary position to keep of air well really only helis from a CP to give time for back up to arrive

**BHack** · 10-07-2005, 04:15 PM

Originally Posted by SilverStealth89

AA is a temporary position to keep of air well really only helis from a CP to give time for back up to arrive

commas!

**=Sarc=** · 10-07-2005, 06:37 PM

For Dalian Plant, 4 of the 7 AA sites really exist. The UCB's are moot because they aren't attacked and aren't close enough to the action to be useful. Depending on the team holding the flags with AA, you may be a sitting duck to enemy air.

mare_cccp · 10-08-2005, 08:35 AM

@jepzilla, aberiogunman,
so you're saying 5 guys should annoy one jet the whole match... ?
... and the result you would take him down like... 2-5 times in the match? and get killed by him like 10 times each?

well, if that's your idea of fun, ok...
i'm more interested in helping my team. and 5 of us getting raped by air and snipers won't do any good.
each AA gunner will die:
- 5 times by jets,
- 3 times by heli,
- 2 times by arty,
- 10 times by infantry, snipers, tanks...

that's if you are lucky. and if you are, you kill 1-2 jets and 3 choppers for the whole match. and it's 5/20 KDR.
plus your team has 5 players annoying 1 jet most of the time... so they have 4 infantry players more...

I say, f... the jets and AA guns. yes, it's stupid, and the whole air vs AA is meaningless. for a couple of matches, i was working with AA like crazy, only to find out it has something like no effect at all. the only thing that make ppl to man the SAM is the fact they are frustrated by air-strikes, so they are in for revenge.

... and that's just what jet pilots are waiting for...

(come on, you annoying ppl in planes, say if it ain't like that?)

**Arf** · 10-08-2005, 10:32 AM

Originally Posted by mare_cccp

@jepzilla, aberiogunman,
so you're saying 5 guys should annoy one jet the whole match... ?
... and the result you would take him down like... 2-5 times in the match? and get killed by him like 10 times each?

well, if that's your idea of fun, ok...
i'm more interested in helping my team. and 5 of us getting raped by air and snipers won't do any good.
each AA gunner will die:
- 5 times by jets,
- 3 times by heli,
- 2 times by arty,
- 10 times by infantry, snipers, tanks...

that's if you are lucky. and if you are, you kill 1-2 jets and 3 choppers for the whole match. and it's 5/20 KDR.
plus your team has 5 players annoying 1 jet most of the time... so they have 4 infantry players more...

I say, f... the jets and AA guns. yes, it's stupid, and the whole air vs AA is meaningless. for a couple of matches, i was working with AA like crazy, only to find out it has something like no effect at all. the only thing that make ppl to man the SAM is the fact they are frustrated by air-strikes, so they are in for revenge.

... and that's just what jet pilots are waiting for...

(come on, you annoying ppl in planes, say if it ain't like that?)

Actually on a 64 player map with jets there's usually 2 jets, at least one attack helicopter, and one transport. That's 2-3 jet pilots, 2 for at least one attack helicopter crew, and a 1-6 man crew for the transport. At the very least it's 5 AA dealing with 5 in the air and there's always the Mobile AA which has a dual purpose.

Your team's snipers should be dealing with enemy snipers that harrass friendly AA unless it's a mobile AA obviously. Also since BF:2 has the UAV, Scan, and CO Bird's Eye a sniper can't stay undetected for long.

I'd actually prefer my team to use the AA and the other team not too. It's easier to kill another jet that's already used its flares on AA, the bombing is better for me when I know the ground forces aren't going to shoot back, and I can set someone on the ground up for a good shot if I'm being chased.

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