Re: AA is underrated

**face84** · 10-08-2005, 11:48 AM

Dunno if it would work that well. 5 people is a lot knowing its almost a full squad trying to kill a few jets. I agree jets do a lot of damage but, having 2 jets and a chopper against 5 AA. Its pretty weak u guys will get hammered since for 1 jet pilot it really isnt that hard to kill at least 2 AA easy. I guess only way to test this claim is to play a map with the AA squad and check this theory out. Thou i doubt it will work. Only cure is to fix AA missles.

**Barracuda_Magoo** · 10-08-2005, 01:49 PM

Last night on Sharqi I had an attack chopper dead to rights (tail shot from ~50-100m and he'd already dropped flares) so I fired both missiles, then hopped out to rejoin my squad. A second or two later I see:

Team damage. Don't hurt your teammates!
You have been punished for a teamkill!
You have been punished for a teamkill!

**StrikeFear** · 10-08-2005, 02:01 PM

Originally Posted by face84

Its pretty weak u guys will get hammered since for 1 jet pilot it really isnt that hard to kill at least 2 AA easy.

I disagree. It's mostly easy to kill on AA station if you don't have a fighter on your tail. But it's not EVER easy to kill 2. It's hard to kill 2, even if you DON'T have a jet on your tail. It takes patience and time and expertise, and those are things you may not have at the moment. It's at the VERY least, completely disabling to your mission.

Now, if one team actually manned up 3 stations, 1 mobile AA, and had their fighters in the air, the other team would truly be shut down. They would find it impossible to operate effectively.

But the cost of putting 4-5 men on AA stations ... questionable.

**face84** · 10-08-2005, 03:38 PM

Ofcourse we have to assume the other team would do the same. Now i said 2 AA arent hard for a jet pilot beacuse here beeing shot from 1 aa or 3 aa's at the same time is the same. U can dodge all of them and all it takes to take down an aa emplacement r a few gun shots. And even then if i hear missle launched at me while im going in for a guns blazing kill all it takes is a hard turn with afterburnes to dodge missles. I agree its much harder with a jet on ur tail. But that pretty much summs the point. 1 jet can easly do the job which would take 3 guys in AA's and which much greater succes. It doesnt pay off to send at least 3 guys on AA and it would even then be questionable if they could supress enemy's air power when the same job can be done by 1 pilot per enemy jet and ull have a free squad to use in battle.

Few years ago i used to play a game which pretty much looks like Bf2 flying. F22 Lightning 3. It was an arcade flight sim, but was tons of fun. And what they could implement is that u could dodge missles easlly only if u line up ur jet at 45 degrees angle to the incoming missle. Now that was easy when u had 1 missle from 1 direction but when 4-5 missles where launched upon u from difrent angles it would be hard to dodge. Would be nice if that was the situation here, then AA would make sence. This way id stick to the fact that only thing that can supress air power is - ur air power.

**aculle01** · 10-08-2005, 03:46 PM

I joined a cobra team as a groundpounder the other evening on daqing oil fields. I would tail them in either mobile AA or a humvee and provide spotting and fire support. This 2 pronged helo hunting tactic turned out to be very effective as well as quite fun.

Thinking further on this I thought about making a dedicated squad like this with 1 gunner/1 pilot (whatever kit they see fit) in the cobra while the other 4 guys can be in humvees, mobile AA or FABs equipped with 1 engineer/medic, 2 AT, 1 support. This would require some communication but not alot (when I first did this I pretty much just listened to the pilot and gunner chatter to see where I should be.) I think this more offensive type of anti air defense works better than the passive AA stations. This squad can also be turned loose to assist with an assault/defense against ground targets as the equipping of AT kits/cobra provide tank killing power, the mobile AA is deadly against troops, 50 cals/saw also provide support against troops. The ground team with an engineer and support equipped can also become a mobile repair station.
The only problem I see with this is on the maps where getting around with little interference from ground troops and other vehicles is close to impossible.

**CingularDuality** · 10-08-2005, 04:19 PM

Originally Posted by SilverStealth89

AA is a temporary position to keep of air well really only helis from a CP to give time for back up to arrive

Is English your second language?

**Thierry** · 10-09-2005, 07:06 AM

If the air is dominated by the enemy, I'll pop in an AA, but if its even I wont, it will just get me a a teamkill, and the enemy air will have the advantage

**face84** · 10-09-2005, 08:16 AM

In addition to this topic aa missles suck so, so much. Tonight on Daqinq i was flyin USCM fighter and constantly trying to get Chinese bomber down. As soon as it would take off id get on his tail. After a while their fighter tried to prevent me, so we always had a line formed up su 30 - f 18 - j10. Aside from my missles missing the bomber on a level flight with out flares like a dozen times, J10 missed me also a ton of times when we were all flying straight me gunning the bomber and without flares and j10 launching all 6 missles on me on a level flight and guess what. They all missed and hit the bomber getting the guy 2 teamkills. Landorin and Lycandra can confirm this they were in the bomber, i forgot the name of the fighter pilot, he was TG. THose AA missles seem to suck even more now. Im mean cmon, level flight and 6 missles miss. I was so suprised to see bomber in front of me blew up and see all the missles pass by me.

mare_cccp · 10-09-2005, 08:57 AM

Originally Posted by arf

Actually on a 64 player map with jets there's usually 2 jets, at least one attack helicopter, and one transport. That's 2-3 jet pilots, 2 for at least one attack helicopter crew, and a 1-6 man crew for the transport. At the very least it's 5 AA dealing with 5 in the air and there's always the Mobile AA which has a dual purpose.

I was saying 1, because friendly side has jets also, so let say AA is doing 50% of the job... something like that...

Your team's snipers should be dealing with enemy snipers that harrass friendly AA unless it's a mobile AA obviously. Also since BF:2 has the UAV, Scan, and CO Bird's Eye a sniper can't stay undetected for long.

no, I wasn't refering to snipers as rifles with optical enhanced view, but assaults shooting at you from far away... and in most of those AA sites are open to wide areas, so the shot can come from anywhere.

I know some people like flying around droping bombs on ppl who can't defend from them... I find it a little bit gay.

(I like boots, dirt, blood and bullets whistling around, always outnumbered, never outgunned)
pilots are thinking they are something special, they are always in top ten in a team, they have the highest number of destroyed vehicles... and they would like to see the whole opposing team manning AAs and .50 guns so they could stay in the center of attention.

Sorry, I'm not gonna fall for that one, cos I know it's a fixed fight you can't win no mater who good you are. Me and my squad go on foot, we have nothing to do with planes. Two ppl in planes should be the only ones that are dealing with enemy jets. One man in AA is one man less for the team. If that is his idea of fun, ok, let him have it. But it's not helping the team.

I have to admit I despise airplanes and ppl who drives them. I think they are the lousiest teamplayers, they have that spoiled "me first" attitude... well, the best maps in BF2 are those withouth any air units, isn't it so?

**StrikeFear** · 10-09-2005, 05:54 PM

I guess you haven't hung out with some of the friendliest bunch of guys I know - VMFA-531. Most of them are in both the jet squad and also one of TG's ground-pounding squad.
Jepzilla
Mishkan
Xeil
JME.Fidelity
TEMM
StrikeFear

I think your statements are a bit general. The certainly don't apply to THAT crew.

Every one of those players was hand-picked for their team-oriented mode of play, and their desire to coordinate to help the team win.

**munchkin** · 10-10-2005, 03:22 AM

Originally Posted by mare_cccp

I have to admit I despise airplanes and ppl who drives them. I think they are the lousiest teamplayers, they have that spoiled "me first" attitude...

Providing CAS to troops getting smashed on the ground by an armour column is bad teamplay?
Keeping enemy jets off their team's back is bad teamplay?
Coordinating airstrikes over TS is bad teamplay?

I guess you haven't hung out with some of the friendliest bunch of guys I know - VMFA-531. Most of them are in both the jet squad and also one of TG's ground-pounding squad.
Jepzilla
Mishkan
Xeil
JME.Fidelity
TEMM
StrikeFear

I think your statements are a bit general. The certainly don't apply to THAT crew.

Every one of those players was hand-picked for their team-oriented mode of play, and their desire to coordinate to help the team win.

What Strikefear says is very true. I've flown and played in squads with at least half of 531. What can I say about them? Top blokes.

**Jack** · 10-10-2005, 02:52 PM

Interesting point; I often use the same tactic by following enemy jets so they won't
be able to make bombing runs.

**kornkobcom** · 10-10-2005, 04:43 PM

If the AA stations get manned then that leaves that team with the 3-5 players who are now removed from the ground campaign. Now the CO has to cope with the fact that he's operating a squad light, in addition to having no effective air assets.

It seems to me that when one player can tie up 3-5 opponents, that's a win for that one guy. If that one guy can tie those 3 up and still manage to kill the occasional squad for his CO, then he's being very effective.

**Mishkan** · 10-10-2005, 05:06 PM

The thing is if your squad is defending a base. It does not hurt to take up an AA gun between assaults. You have the ability to instantly get out of the gun and help your squad against ground assaults.

**kornkobcom** · 10-10-2005, 06:48 PM

Which is fine if the best place to be to help defend also happens to be the AA station.

You're still less effective and less useful as a 'part time' defender than you are if you're not tied to a static (and relatively exposed) position.

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