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Discussion: PR:BF2 / PR:BF2 - Tactics & SOPs - Thoughts about commanding - Okay, so I like to jump in the CO chair. Okay, so maybe I'm a
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07-31-2006, 08:45 AM #1
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Thoughts about commanding
Okay, so I like to jump in the CO chair. Okay, so maybe I'm a little of a nerd about it. Sue me.
My whole question comes up because of "vanilla night" last week. I CO'd for the last half of a round and became frustrated when squad leaders would just set a new objective for themselves and then up and leave whatever objective they were currently assigned to. The problem I have with this is not even so much that they changed their task, but that they didn't even let the CO know, so unless I was constantly policing the squad's actions, I couldn't even adapt a strategy to their changes.
My point is this.. at what point does a SL changing their objective (going rogue) go from freedom to make the game more enjoyable for themselves and their squad to refusal to cooperate, needing admin intervention?
I don't want to be a tyrant here, my point is just to find out what the community thinks so I don't get frustrated as CO. Sometimes I feel like the CO is treated as supply crate/artillery-dropper on server 1 and this is perhaps why there aren't any more regular COs than there are lately.
Just a thought (and kisses!),
Sassy[age-c1][tog-c1][tg-c1][ma-c2][medic]
[command][at][conduct][tpf-c1]
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07-31-2006, 09:09 AM #2
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Re: Thoughts about commanding
If the SL is setting waypoints to maneuver themselves to complete the objective you set out.... then there shouldn't be a problem. Hopefully the SL will let the CO know that is what they are doing.
If the SL is not following orders, then contact an admin immediately. There is far too much of this going on that is not reported and it's just getting worse. The only way for some players to learn is to see that kick message come up.
Don't feel bad about contacting an admin.... it is the only way we can keep the server clean. Not reporting problematic behavior is nearly as bad because it appears then that our server is not managed and our play is not quality.
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07-31-2006, 09:26 AM #3
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Re: Thoughts about commanding
^^^^^^ Exactly. Get on TS and tell an admin who is not following orders and we will deal with them. I think I only kicked two people on Friday night (vehicle stealing and communication issues).
Last edited by JMJ; 07-31-2006 at 11:12 AM.
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07-31-2006, 09:49 AM #4
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Re: Thoughts about commanding
Man, old timers need to show how it is done eh?
Fun, fun and more fun. But do not be selfish. Provide some fun and you will receive some fun.
|TG| B | Spartan 12
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07-31-2006, 10:54 AM #5
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Re: Thoughts about commanding
Where ya been, B?!
Yes, Sassy, not reporting problematic players is the same as encouraging them. We don't want them here, help us remove them.
-- Suits are what you wear when doing things you shouldn’t want to do anyway.
FROM THE TACTICAL GAMER PRIMER.
3) Support game play in a near-simulation environment. Where the focus of play would not be solely on doing what it takes to win, but doing so utilizing real-world combat strategy and tactics rather than leveraging exploits provided to players by the design of the game engine.
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07-31-2006, 12:19 PM #6
Re: Thoughts about commanding
I've had this problem as a CO regularly. But I can't get myself to possibly reporting a paying TG member to an admin for a kick (maybe they would use a warning but still) since that would seem totally out of place for me. Also I'd have Alt-tab, surf to TG for the TS ip, connect, find admin.... Ok I could do that before the game but ts+ voip gives me lag. What would you people suggest I do?
I do have one suggestion for SL's. If you or your squad are bored, tell the CO, and wait. When I'm co I will always give such a squad new orders, because morale is IMO 50% of a battlefield victory.What it's like to play online games as a grown-up:http://s3.amazonaws.com/theoatmeal-i...e_gaming/1.jpg
"Heroism on command, senseless violence, and all the loathsome nonsense that goes by the name of patriotism -how passionately I hate them!"
"Nationalism is an infantile disease. It is the measles of mankind."
(Einstein, both)
***I will be in India 14 dec till end of januari***
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07-31-2006, 03:45 PM #7
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Re: Thoughts about commanding
I had this same prob. the other day when i hopped in the CO chair. SL's just simply wouldnt follow orders,im not talking about random pubbies, im talking TGers! I typed something about no one following orders in all chat and just left a little frustrated.
I dont CO just because i like throwing arty on people, i do it because i like directing the "big picture" of the battle. That tough to do when SL's dont follow orders.
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07-31-2006, 03:50 PM #8
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Re: Thoughts about commanding
This is actually a kickable offense? I think that's rediculous. There's nothing wrong with taking the initiative as an SL and doing what needs to be done. Now, maybe some people are taking it too far - but be that as it may, that's a problem for the CO to deal with, not an admin. Let's not make a big production out of every little slight.
A policy of freedom for the individual is the only truly progressive policy. -F.A. Hayek
"$250,000 a year won't get me to Central Park West."
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07-31-2006, 03:55 PM #9
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Re: Thoughts about commanding
Originally Posted by xTYBALTx
and how can a CO deal with a SL that just doesnt follow orders and doesnt tell you what hes doing?
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07-31-2006, 04:04 PM #10
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Re: Thoughts about commanding
If you are getting reasonable orders from a commander, then yes, it's a kickable offense. You must follow the chain of command, it has been that way since day 1. Squad members must follow SL's orders, and SL's must follow CO's orders. Originally Posted by xTYBALTx
When I see the need to change the CO's orders I ask first. Friday night on Dragon Valley, Tempus was the CO. He had given an order to me, but shortly after I saw the need to change it. I took 5 seconds to tell him the situation over VOIP and then asked "Is it okay if I do this?" He said "no problem".
It doesn't take a lot to give that information to your CO. If you run around "Deveran style" then it's definitely a bootable offense.
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07-31-2006, 04:07 PM #11
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Re: Thoughts about commanding
Being an SM (paying member) doesn't give you the right to abuse the rules that are in place. I encourage you to report anyone who is not following the rules. I suggest you type into chat something like "Admin, squad 5 is not following orders at all". We can see who the squad leaders are in the admin tool and take action accordingly. Originally Posted by BigGaayAl
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07-31-2006, 04:17 PM #12
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Re: Thoughts about commanding
What are we talking about here? Is it squads that flat out ignore defend orders and just keep flag hopping? Or is it squads that defend the given objective, but send out a fireteam to another flag without telling the commander?
|TG-33rd|Dark_Viper
I thought I wanted a career, turns out I just wanted paychecks.
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07-31-2006, 04:22 PM #13
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Re: Thoughts about commanding
Squads that flat out ignore the CO. Originally Posted by Dark Viper
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07-31-2006, 04:25 PM #14
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Re: Thoughts about commanding
I think most are talking about completely ditching a flag without notifying the CO. I sometimes tell a CO if i send a fireteam out, but the CO generally doesnt need to know every detail like that. As long as the SL can bring his fireteam back to defend the flag the CO set for him, theres no problem.
Theres nothing wrong with initiative, but ya gotta realize its going to mess up whatever the CO is trying to do. Just tell him so he can move other squads around and keep his overall strategy going.
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07-31-2006, 04:27 PM #15
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Re: Thoughts about commanding
You fail as a CO and you fail at life... Originally Posted by JMJ
This thread is quite relevent because I love CO'ing (especially in TacMod) but I honestly can't think of a single instance where each squad beneath me obeyed orders to a "T", and more often than not one or two SLs will blatantly disregard my orders. As JMJ said, if you're going to stray from an order talk it over with the CO first so he doesn't expect a squad to be defending in a certain location when there won't be one there, etc...
A tip asch pointed out (though I haven't CO'd since then, sadly) is that oftentimes one or two of your SLs will be admins. You can use the "B" key to talk to them directly about someone misbehaving and don't necessarily need to broadcast the situation via text or Teamspeak. That was my main concern in the past; sounding like a whiny schoolgirl complaining to everyone about an errant SL over Teamspeak, and as others have pointed out, these individuals are sometimes veterans of the TG community and should know better...
I definitely need to "tighten the leash" when CO'ing and I think if we all start to do this we'll get more "green" COs willing to step up. No one wants to try commanding for the first time only to have one squad following orders. The results aren't going to be reflective of the COs overall strategy, nor does this behavior offer much encouragement to try commanding again in the future...|TG-1stMIP|Coridon
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