-
09-10-2006, 06:06 PM #16
Re: PoE2 Fallen tactics.
Defending is not always easier than attacking is true.
If planned well, the defender has the upper hand as in any set up. Due to the heavy follage, the defenders have more of an advantage when it comes to picking off intruders.
In Fallen, the attackers meat certain death if their stuff is not together.
If given the choice i would rarther defend than attack on any map. Fallen would be my first choice to defend on.
On falllen, the defenders have the option to play off the flag and let it be their kill zone. claymors, frags, grenades can all explode on the flag when the attackers move to it.
"The attackers have the advantage of knowing were the defenders are because they are defending the flag."
I disagree, and say the opposite, the defenders know the attackers have to commit to the flag and in stead will punish them in turn. On falllen, the defenders have the option to play off the flag and let it be their kill zone. Sharp shotting, and machine gun nest, claymors, frags, grenades can all explode on the flag when the attackers move to it. Nasty stuff indeed.
If u need to take a flag, your bleeding, if your bleeding u have only two flags, if u have two flags, only 12 players are guarding, this leaves at least two squads to hit a flag. One squad attacks on Fallen have a weak succes rate. Two squads overpower the enemy, and allow their defense to break down greatly improving the chance at capping the flag. However, a CO cannot just tell two squads to hit a place and then wipe his hands of the matter. If not planned right the two squads can still wasted before they even get to the flag.(PO3) Marcinko_R. (BF2 PR .509) Squad Member
(CPO) Marcinko_R. (BF2 PR .509) Squad Leader
(LCDR) Marcinko_R. (BF2 PR .509) Commander
Squad Member pledge to their SL:http://www.tacticalgamer.com/battlef...ad-leader.html
Squad Leader pledge to their team:http://www.tacticalgamer.com/battlef...r-platoon.html
Commander pledge to their SL:http://www.tacticalgamer.com/battlef...d-leaders.html
-
09-10-2006, 06:17 PM #17
- Join Date
- Apr 2005
- Location
- MA
- Posts
- 3,571
Re: PoE2 Fallen tactics.
The heavy foliage is actually what makes attacking so easy on this map. It conseals the attackers if they move carefully. Defenders can take advantage of it only if they get off the flag and take the battle to the forest to meet the attackers. The attackers actually have a great advantage to pick off the defenders from the forest. It is extremly fun to lay prone or crouch behind a tree and barely poke your head out and pick off the defenders, and they can't figure out where you are.
But true, the attackers are dead if they don't have much of a plan.
-
09-10-2006, 06:39 PM #18
Re: PoE2 Fallen tactics.
good point, the foliage can be your friend or enemy no matter what point of view your coming form.
(PO3) Marcinko_R. (BF2 PR .509) Squad Member
(CPO) Marcinko_R. (BF2 PR .509) Squad Leader
(LCDR) Marcinko_R. (BF2 PR .509) Commander
Squad Member pledge to their SL:http://www.tacticalgamer.com/battlef...ad-leader.html
Squad Leader pledge to their team:http://www.tacticalgamer.com/battlef...r-platoon.html
Commander pledge to their SL:http://www.tacticalgamer.com/battlef...d-leaders.html
-
09-11-2006, 01:19 PM #19
Re: PoE2 Fallen tactics.
I'd like to point out that in what imo is particular about Fallen, and makes it very different from Inishail, is that there is almost NO cover, but LOTS of concealment. That difference is key on fallen, and the reason autofire with a loud gun will get you killed 90% of the time in <10 seconds.
There is no retreating on Fallen.What it's like to play online games as a grown-up:http://s3.amazonaws.com/theoatmeal-i...e_gaming/1.jpg
"Heroism on command, senseless violence, and all the loathsome nonsense that goes by the name of patriotism -how passionately I hate them!"
"Nationalism is an infantile disease. It is the measles of mankind."
(Einstein, both)
***I will be in India 14 dec till end of januari***
-
09-11-2006, 11:52 PM #20
Re: PoE2 Fallen tactics.
Al,
That's a very accurate description of Fallen (no cover, lots of concealment). I'm going to keep that in mind next time I'm playing on the map, or really, anywhere else.
Lots of real world combat doctirnes make it very clear to differentiate cover from concealment - that's something we don't often see in video games.
Fallen rocks.
-
09-12-2006, 02:30 AM #21
Re: PoE2 Fallen tactics.
The only "cover" in fallen are the artillery holes and the rocks. The artillery holes are especcialy good because you only reveal a sliver of your body, while you can be scoped and mow down anything that moves in front of you with ease.
-
09-12-2006, 04:37 AM #22
Re: PoE2 Fallen tactics.
I like the trees myself. Kneel next to one on defense or as SL overwatch when attacking. Then just scan the environment in ironsights over and over and one shot anyone that comes into view.
|TG-12th|mantis


-
09-12-2006, 10:03 AM #23
Re: PoE2 Fallen tactics.
This is how i envision a good defense.
Very little movement.
All rifles trained on a portion of the forest that gives them a good view to a kill.
When movement is detected, the Fire team slowly shifts directions to set up shop.
70% of the time, the enemy comes from a location that is an enemy flag, so having eyes trained their, all with sharp shooting infantry badges is lethal stuff.
For this reason, two squad assaults must be used ever time to better improve the chances of a flag cap.(PO3) Marcinko_R. (BF2 PR .509) Squad Member
(CPO) Marcinko_R. (BF2 PR .509) Squad Leader
(LCDR) Marcinko_R. (BF2 PR .509) Commander
Squad Member pledge to their SL:http://www.tacticalgamer.com/battlef...ad-leader.html
Squad Leader pledge to their team:http://www.tacticalgamer.com/battlef...r-platoon.html
Commander pledge to their SL:http://www.tacticalgamer.com/battlef...d-leaders.html
-
09-12-2006, 12:42 PM #24
Re: PoE2 Fallen tactics.
I had a blast on this map last night...Kudos to my squad...I think BG Al and Jepzilla were in with some newcomers. Wish I wrote their names down.
The dialogue on defensive vs offensive action on this map is good in this thread.
It's also important to know when to fall back too. I don't see too many squads actually falling back without getting wiped out. We were playing as Ukraine and early on we assaulted crash site and after we took the flag went on defense- oriented to the NE where the German base is. At the time Ukraine held the N. Cabin and Trenches so I had my guys form a line on the river waiting for the attacker. We held those flags for a good while but soon enough our allied squads lost N. Cabin and Trenches so we had enemy on three sides of us. We were the only squad left in the area so I knew an onslaught was coming. I immediately ordered a withdrawal to the SW towards Lumbermill. Before we had finished withdrawing were forced to fight a rearguard action to get away. I fell back to the flag at lumbermill and arrayed my men in a defensive perimeter facing N - NW. In a few moments we were joined by an allied squad and we then had a very strong defensive position, fighting off an attack or two from the N and North West. If we hadn't withdrawn we would've been overrun at crash site and I bet they would've rushed to lumbermill and wight have lost that flag too.
My point is that sometimes withdrawing defensively pays huge dividends.
The other thing on that map...I think I stole this idea from someone else. the kit layout I used was 3 spec ops, 1 sniper and 2 medics. That silenced spec ops weapon is perfect for the troopers on point and I can't tell you how many times my guys on point took out multiple enemies in part because of the silenced weapon.
This was my first time SLing on this map. I must say everyother time it felt like a fragfest but this time it didn't --could be because I was leading the squad and making the plans for defence or offnce myself. As a rule when I SL I am off the frontline and for that reason I did not die too much last night. For the first time it felt more like a tactically fought battle rather than a pell mell fragfest. For that I think our whole team deserves the credit. Even without a commander it seemed the SL's were aware of what everyone was doing and planning and acting accordingly. Good Stuff !!Last edited by Grunt 70; 09-12-2006 at 03:04 PM.
|TG-1st|Grunt
-
09-12-2006, 12:55 PM #25
Re: PoE2 Fallen tactics.
good point. NO sence in getting ran over. Good tactical retreat.
I believe, playing this map with a near simulation mind set will get the job done more so than on any other map.(PO3) Marcinko_R. (BF2 PR .509) Squad Member
(CPO) Marcinko_R. (BF2 PR .509) Squad Leader
(LCDR) Marcinko_R. (BF2 PR .509) Commander
Squad Member pledge to their SL:http://www.tacticalgamer.com/battlef...ad-leader.html
Squad Leader pledge to their team:http://www.tacticalgamer.com/battlef...r-platoon.html
Commander pledge to their SL:http://www.tacticalgamer.com/battlef...d-leaders.html
-
09-14-2006, 06:31 PM #26
Re: PoE2 Fallen tactics.
Any tips for SLs conducting a withdrawal? Whenever I give the order all my little green dots seem to stand there in a dumb-founded lack of comprehension. Still facing enemy, not moving. It works sometimes but a fighting withdrawal doesn't seem to be in the TG vocab yet. Even when an urgent need or CO order to redeploy comes down the line the simple DISENGAGE! DISENGAGE! DISENGAGE! doesn't seem to work. IMO, when I need to disengage quick and dirty, I just stand and sprint in the opposite direction and it works 9 out of 10 times. Toss whatever nades you have on the way at your feet as you sprint to discourage pursuit if you get the urge.
Of all the orders that go unfollowed this one probably frustrates me the most.Xbox Live Gamertag: TG ABRA
live.xbox.com/member/TG ABRA
Friend me!
-
09-14-2006, 07:01 PM #27
Re: PoE2 Fallen tactics.
good call on tossing frags. Smoke is good also, anything to help your withdrawl.
If enough time is given, put down a move to this position icon.
As the SL you should be in the middle of the squad, so have your Alpha team (u and two other dudes) put suppresive fire and smoke down as your Bravo three man team takes point, in direction fo the away marker.
After they pass tell bravo to cover u. I guess this is leap froging.
This is another example of having the squad put into two three man teams really helps the SL manage things.
Some may say, why retreat? If u have bleed on the enemy, it is best not to attack an instilation that is fixing to have a whole mess of enemy spawning there. Plus, attacking is dangerous business on Fallen. Let them come to you.(PO3) Marcinko_R. (BF2 PR .509) Squad Member
(CPO) Marcinko_R. (BF2 PR .509) Squad Leader
(LCDR) Marcinko_R. (BF2 PR .509) Commander
Squad Member pledge to their SL:http://www.tacticalgamer.com/battlef...ad-leader.html
Squad Leader pledge to their team:http://www.tacticalgamer.com/battlef...r-platoon.html
Commander pledge to their SL:http://www.tacticalgamer.com/battlef...d-leaders.html
-
09-15-2006, 01:41 AM #28
Re: PoE2 Fallen tactics.
Even without bleed. When out-numbered(and sometimes when even numbers), accommodate the enemy. He wants to attack, let him attack, make room for the thrust, encircle and cut it off. Attacks flank themselves, I cannot over-emphasize that. An attacking enemy is more committed, more predictable. Oblige that choice on the enemy's part and exploit it. When you contradict and stop the enemy's plans, he is forced to change them. A change you won't necessarily understand as well as you are starting to understand this attack. Weaken the attack until when it arrives at its conclusion it is a whithered trickle.
Tactically this means position to overwatch their attack vector while keeping a visual on your immediate right and immediate left friendly:
In front this means:
-Sit in good concealment in front of the approaching enemy and fire at "whites of their eyes" targets that are easy kills
-fall back to the nearest cover, say one half sprint distance, and wait(watch the gap you're opening on your flank between your nearest ally, close it if attacked directly)
-as long as the attack continues repeat, they will re-enter your sights and you can kill one more at a time
in flank position this means:
-sit on the flank of the attack and shoot them in their sides, chances are they will not even seek cover that protects them from your fire(if they do your frontal attackers will see their then exposed side)
-if they do face you as a flanker, immediately withdrawal perpendicular to their attack vector while maintaining sniping contact, if you can suck them to you, you dilute their thrust and scatter its force, possibly redirect it entirely(in this situation it is the frontals responsibility to slide sideways to maintain friendly contact)
-in this way as a flanker the enemy almost can't pursue you without surrendering their objective, keep your distance and they will have to choose between taking steps to staunch the slow bleeding your sniping attacks inflict on their force and abandon their objective or continue on while allowing you almost free reign to attack at your leisure on your terms, seriously, this position is the equivalent of the bouncing flashing invincibility star in mario bros. if you play it right IMO
Let me restate, keep visual with your flank friendlies to your right and left and babysit each other. IF one goes down, the guys on either side should be sliding to close that gap and take flank shots on any attack entering it. If your wing man is moving away from you for some strange reason, 9 out of 10 times this is why, even if he doesn't consciously realize that this is what he is doing. So let him tow you over and fill the gap opening between you as he slides over.
A smart guy realizes this is the moment when your extreme flank man can effectively tow a formation around. And if they tow opposite directions it's usually a problem. Watch out for this SL. Flank men resist the temptation to encircle prematurely, some flanking attacks simply cannot be exploited when they appear. This is like flag hopping to an empty CP while abandoning your primary CP, i.e. your middle which you weaken by flanking. A good point in this brain dump to mention that by their nature flanking maneuvers and frontal static defenses are essentially in opposition and are two tendencies in any formation that needs to be actively balanced by setting clear way points often.
This whole tactic can be defeated by a blitzing overload at one point in the formation(funny how a formation suddenly appears when you just think about the two friendlies on either side of you and position accordingly, an SL doesn't even have to describe some grandiose formation, they just happen with good players). A denser, i.e. shorter distance between friendlies combats this, but is usually ultimately ill-advised and counter-productive, especially while travelling. In such a case SL hot foots to the rear so the respawners appear in front of the blitz, your line collapses laterally to effectively occupy the flank positions of this new blitzing bulge.
If you wanna get ballsy, immediately send your extreme flanks out to attack from the rear and clear out their SL. This is the best defense/counter for an overload blitz, just like in football, throw the attack to the area of the vacated blitzers, i.e. the SL with no support. Even if he joined the blitz he's either waiting patiently in the rear of it to be shot or he spearheaded it and you should've already got'em. If not you guys are all mixed up beyond recognition anyway and its death match time and there's nothing to post in the tactics forum about it. This is no command and control if it comes to this point. If you're SL, my advice is to withdrawal while your boys fight it out and counterattack whatever is left after some people spawn on you.
Anyway, aside from the positioning when you fire, kill one and fall back immediately and repeat as long as they control the conflict, until you regain initiative. The plain fact is that if you want to maintain contact with their enemy element, you need to continue this until you regain the advantage. Even if your withdrawal pushes you back through three CPs you were tasked to defend. It is better to survive and lose objectives until you are reinforced(this will happen as your withdrawal as the enemy generally maneuvers toward your spawn points). You are much more valuable to your team slowing an attack rather than getting run over by it. Maintain contact and keep spotting.
But obviously this isn't optimal and the tactical goal at any moment in your withdrawal is maneuvering to regain initiative. But that's a whole nother topic for a whole other irrelevant brain dump post. Just some rehashed Sun Tzu tactical food for thought.Xbox Live Gamertag: TG ABRA
live.xbox.com/member/TG ABRA
Friend me!
-
09-15-2006, 11:11 AM #29
Re: PoE2 Fallen tactics.
Good point,
if your an attacking squad and your half way to their CB and the flags switch so that you see them bleeding, bam! Set up an ambush in that area. They will need to assault in hopes of stopping bleed, no doubt you will impede their progress. Of course, the three flags your team has should be defended.(PO3) Marcinko_R. (BF2 PR .509) Squad Member
(CPO) Marcinko_R. (BF2 PR .509) Squad Leader
(LCDR) Marcinko_R. (BF2 PR .509) Commander
Squad Member pledge to their SL:http://www.tacticalgamer.com/battlef...ad-leader.html
Squad Leader pledge to their team:http://www.tacticalgamer.com/battlef...r-platoon.html
Commander pledge to their SL:http://www.tacticalgamer.com/battlef...d-leaders.html
-
09-17-2006, 12:36 PM #30
Re: PoE2 Fallen tactics.
I had a funny round on Fallen. I was in an all pub squad on pw night, Fallen. We didn't have a talking SL.
Suddenly I'm SL and I just started giving orders tacmod style; assuming everyone will obey.
At first they were a bit ironic when they kept saying yes sir!. In about two minutes though we had a very effective squad.
I had to keep nagging at some of them though, and threatened to kick one of them. "Who are those drunk *sses still camping out on the river" worked pretty well, as well as yelling alot of GOGOGO, Form up! Feels like walking a poorly trained dog; they keep pulling on the leish.
In the end I had the most effective round yet on Fallen as SL.
My tactic was:
1) Fill in any gaps made by the other squads.
This must have been a revelation to the new guys, to go to a waypoint instead of a flag.
2) I retreat after I see an enemy or tell the squad to hold spawn if I am surrounded.
At one time I was in the midst of one to two squads, the engineers even bumped into me, pushing me out of the bushes a bit. Now mediocre discipline got me killed there, but in general this worked great.
I'd kill the first contact I see, then run back +- one viewdistance, repeat.
The enemy were getting far away from the flag, and getting killed.
3) Never attack a flag alone, unless all squads seem to be tied up (and you don't have bleed). We encountered this situation, so I reluctantly ordered a blitz attack, on the close-by center flag which no-one was attacking. It was undefended
In conclusion, it was alot of fun to SL this new squad and learned some new stuff. GG to the people in the squad, whoever they were.
Props to ABRA for his post about retreating tactics.What it's like to play online games as a grown-up:http://s3.amazonaws.com/theoatmeal-i...e_gaming/1.jpg
"Heroism on command, senseless violence, and all the loathsome nonsense that goes by the name of patriotism -how passionately I hate them!"
"Nationalism is an infantile disease. It is the measles of mankind."
(Einstein, both)
***I will be in India 14 dec till end of januari***
Thread Information
Users Browsing this Thread
There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)



Reply With Quote











Bookmarks