Welcome to Tactical Gamer

+ Reply to Thread
Page 2 of 3 FirstFirst 123 LastLast
Results 16 to 30 of 35
Discussion: Project Reality / PR:BF2 - Aggravations related to Commanding - I try hard to listen to commander orders as an SL. Even when the orders
  1. #16

    Rafterman1987's Avatar

    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    Ottawa, Canada
    Age
    24
    Posts
    177

    Re: Aggravations related to Commanding

    I try hard to listen to commander orders as an SL. Even when the orders mean my squad's gonna be setting up tents and sleeping bags on a flag once again (I seem to get caught on defense a lot haha).

    My pet peeves were touched in the post: http://www.tacticalgamer.com/battlef...inters-pr.html (Thanks to whoever brought it up here, it was a good read)

    Commanders need to understand a few things about squad movement that I think a lot currently dont and get angry because they take it as a squad leader draggin his feet. The way a squad gets where it's going is based entirely on the personality of the squad leader. Some SLs like to rush in directly to the objective while others like to take it slow and make sure to properly search out the area so they have a better handle on things. Others yet like to try to achieve secondary objectives on the way (IE kill that sniper harassing people, destroy rally points, destroy bunkers, etc).

    Just because we arent moving in a straight line doesn't mean we aren't paying attention (most of the time). Asking the squads status is a legitimate response to this. If the SL can't give the commander a reasonable response, then it's time to tell em to get their butts movin and if they refuse maybe throw the rule card out as a warning then report them.

    What a commander shouldnt do, as I witnessed the other day, is start harassing them in public chat and using colorful language to describe people haha. Far too often do I see commanders harassing their team! That's the nail in the coffin really, once I start seeing that... My map opens, I find the nearest point that needs reinforcing, and Raftermans agenda takes over. Mainly because the CO just lost all credibility.

    Oh, also, I think an admin should sticky that post "Derived from insanity". While not everyone will agree with it, it definatly makes some good points. For example, if you see my squad defending an objective and I have a marker placed out in a field to mark, oh lets say, an enemy rally point... Don't move the dang thing back to defend right on top of me!!! I really dislike this commander habbit of moving objective markers, or constantly requesting it... bad habbit TG, BAD!

  2.  
  3. #17


    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    NJ
    Posts
    318

    Re: Aggravations related to Commanding

    Yeah I usually ask what's the situation with squads and then if there are squads that arent moving I'll ask to do something. For some reason two of my bigger squads didn't want to leave the airfield and the A10 kept strafing it even though the outpost flag was neutral still

    <a href="http://www.metro2033forum.net">metro 2033 forum</a>

  4.  
  5. #18

    dbzao's Avatar

    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Posts
    132

    Re: Aggravations related to Commanding

    Like new squad members listening to the squad leader for the first time, the cmdr needs to pass confidence to the squad leaders that he knows what he's doing. That doesn't actually means giving orders left and right, but that he understands what's happening in the overall picture.

    Whatever I can say here also depends on the squad leaders. If they don't want to cooperate, anything you do won't help. So yeah, it still depends on the SLs. BUT there are simple mistakes that some commanders do that don't pass that confidence to experienced squad leaders, and I will list some of them here that I can remember:

    1. Talk to all squads (default V): I don't need to listen to the cmdr talking to squad 3 that he needs his squad to jump in the truck to help him build the firebase, etc, etc. Use the squad talk key (default B) while the squad is selected in the map screen, to talk to only that squad leader.

    2. Talk too much, or be too specific: give the general order and let the SL figure it out. Most orders don't actually need a move, or attack or defense command. Just say it or pass the coordinates. Most experienced SLs use these commands for their own squad, for pointing at targets and other smaller objectives, while he still has the final objective in mind.

    3. Don't know how to use cmdr specific options in the map: cmdrs can right-click on the map and put down LANDING ZONES (very useful on airborne maps), CAS markers (useful overall), TARGET COORDINATES (useful for bombing static targets), and other stuff.

    These are just technical stuff that they can learn and use, but the most important thing is having a good strategic mind. And this means:

    4. Knowing when to defend and when to attack: giving orders to my squad to leave the defense of a CP, that's still an objective, to attack another CP without putting another squad in my place, is stupid.

    5. Knowing the status of each squad: ask for status reports. It's not that hard, and SLs usually like to pass them. Makes no sense to ask a squad to move somewhere while they are being attacked or are engaging an enemy squad. The SLs can also learn to pass this information without being asked.


    These last two happen a lot and it's my main grief with cmdrs.

  6.  

     
  7. #19

    imnotacanadian's Avatar

    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    Texas (really,I don't live in Canada)
    Posts
    751

    Re: Aggravations related to Commanding

    Quote Originally Posted by Rafterman1987 View Post
    ....if you see my squad defending an objective and I have a marker placed out in a field to mark, oh lets say, an enemy rally point... Don't move the dang thing back to defend right on top of me!!! I really dislike this commander habbit of moving objective markers, or constantly requesting it... bad habbit TG, BAD!
    The only time I really set markers on flags is when I want somebody to attack something from across the map. Other than that I do use the markers quite often....but it's to mark enemy locations, or good defensive positions for the squad to set up in....stuff like that. When you have intel streaming in to you, you must do everything you can to increase the other squads situational awareness. You never know if one squad is actually attacking that enemy that was spotted out a few seconds ago, or if they are just walking into an ambush...




  8.  
  9. #20


    Skud's Avatar

    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    NY
    Age
    21
    Posts
    8,044
    Blog Entries
    15

    Re: Aggravations related to Commanding

    Transport Helo pilots that lose Helos because they're joy riding. If I'm commanding, and you're the helo squad...

    1. Unless it's something minor, have the engines shut down on carrier/main base. Accidents should be prevented.
    2. Do not go dropping supplies without my permission. If a squad needs supplies they should clear it with CO.
    3. Transport helos are not CAS. Unless ordered to do so, do not use your miniguns/SAW off the side as CAS.
    4. Do not joy ride.

    These simple rules make sure that:
    a. my choppers have a good chance of staying up the entire round
    b. if **** hit the fan and I needed every chopper for transport mid round (ex. Jabal), I as CO don't have to worry about missing choppers because they were joyriding/being dumb.

    If you're in a pilot squad, you're not in it for the glory. You're a support role. I don't care how CRAPPY/GOOD a pilot you are. I only care that you do the job when I ask you to and you do it well. I understand that Hueys/LB/BH are kinda delicate and you will sometimes fail to meet my demands, but as long as you follow orders and carry them out to the best of your ability well.

  10.  
  11. #21

    TheTonkaTruck's Avatar

    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Posts
    116

    Re: Aggravations related to Commanding

    I had a round on Kashan 64 where the team could not get South Village for nothing and we ended up losing both bunkers and South Village AND MEC outpost within 30 minutes. All of which were spent trying to capture SV. I was commanding the entire time and I basically redirected the entire team to SV when I realized what was going on and even then it wasn't happening. After we lost MEC outpost I told everyone to go to the main base and set up defenses. Noone did. Everyone stayed at the ridge with the exception of two squads. One squad did as it was told and the other was openly disobeying me saying they could recapture MEC outpost. This squad had only 3 members and they were all scattered throughout the bunker complex and they were willing to take on a knowingly fortified position that had the entire team at it. I kept telling them they couldn't and they needed to follow orders and I kept telling them it'd be impossible since we didn't have any time nor the tickets.

    This was on the TG Server too. =\ I was disappointed. But heck, I tried.

  12.  

     
  13. #22

    billyinorganic's Avatar

    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Posts
    150

    Re: Aggravations related to Commanding

    "Just because we arent moving in a straight line doesn't mean we aren't paying attention (most of the time). Asking the squads status is a legitimate response to this. If the SL can't give the commander a reasonable response, then it's time to tell em to get their butts movin and if they refuse maybe throw the rule card out as a warning then report them."

    I think something needs to be noted here in reference to your point.
    Your point is very valid and true, and a commander who ignores this information is being foolish. But much as a SL will have his squad withdraw from a bad position and set up a new one, breaking contact and re-org, a commander sometimes needs a squad to withdraw FAST from whatever they are doing and re-focus. Sure this is hard to do so quickly, but i have noticed that sometimes it is that speed which the commander wants, and he doesn't care about the other things...
    listen close
    to the rat-tat-tat-
    as the metal flies,
    we should know as fact:
    that unearthly demons
    are part of our pack,
    and as we engage you
    in battle we pass.

  14.  
  15. #23


    Delta*RandyShugart*'s Avatar

    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    Good ol Suburbia in Southern Westchester County NY
    Posts
    6,091
    Blog Entries
    49

    Re: Aggravations related to Commanding

    Quote Originally Posted by TheTonkaTruck View Post
    I had a round on Kashan 64 where the team could not get South Village for nothing and we ended up losing both bunkers and South Village AND MEC outpost within 30 minutes. All of which were spent trying to capture SV. I was commanding the entire time and I basically redirected the entire team to SV when I realized what was going on and even then it wasn't happening. After we lost MEC outpost I told everyone to go to the main base and set up defenses. Noone did. Everyone stayed at the ridge with the exception of two squads. One squad did as it was told and the other was openly disobeying me saying they could recapture MEC outpost. This squad had only 3 members and they were all scattered throughout the bunker complex and they were willing to take on a knowingly fortified position that had the entire team at it. I kept telling them they couldn't and they needed to follow orders and I kept telling them it'd be impossible since we didn't have any time nor the tickets.

    This was on the TG Server too. =\ I was disappointed. But heck, I tried.
    ***REPORT THEM, use global chat, let everyone know, let the admins know who are on the other team what is going on, and that people are not being mature teamplayers. You will find that players who do that, and are reported/kicked or banned from their actions either shape up and learn how to be a team player or they leave never to be heard of again. I have heard commanders complain about this when i have been an SL and then when i suggest they report them they say "its just a game, or its not worth it." If thats the case, then don't complain about it.

    I have sometimes taken the extra step and reported them after i have witnessed or even been a multiple casualty from their non-teamplaying style. But that has only happened in the most extreme cases. It is a commanders job to report them just as it is a commander job/duty to use a microphone and be mature when talking to all the squads or individual squads, as it is the community to report players in game if they are severely breaking the rules set forth in the SOPs and in the realms of the standards of PR and the TG Servers.

    Remember that the admins have the logs for bf2cc they can check through them even if they were not on when an (serious)infraction was committed. They also like us, (those who are SMs) also can DL the PR video files and watch and review.

    Those who do not follow what is set forth in the rules/guidelines and SOPs of TG are taken care of.

    Lets say you don't report them, send an admin a PM, take a SS and explain what happened, what map, what time, and why this player should be watched/reprimanded.***

    The other night I commanded for the first time in a long time on EJOD 64. There was a SL who repeatedly did not accept the order to attack east city, and only wanted to attack ruins even though i already had a squad moving there, and the squad that was about to capture gas station was going to back them up, after about 6 times of asking that SL to set a rally and head to east city, and after 6 "no sir's", and after he failed to communicate with me via microphone or via team chat, i reported him for this action.

    It was fun commanding even though we lost, I hadn't done it in a long time, and though we lost we still put up a good fight. One thing that really aggravates me, and is also a pet peeve of mine is when an SL takes a Specialty kit, instead of an officer kit, before asking if there are any squads who are marksmen or HAT etc......This frustrates me because for some reason after this SL does this their RP is taken out, and now they cannot set one unless that SL kills an enemy officer, or somehow or another run's into a FB or bunker that has just appeared out of the middle of nowhere like an oasis in the desert (if this does happen please tell me).

    The other pet peeve of mine is when an SL in an APC, Tanks, Attack Chopper, is not the driver. It defeats the purpose of that squad having a tank. The SL should be the driver and if he doesn't want to, then don't be an SL with armor. The reason is, that the SL can spot and set a move/attack marker, quicker then he/she would be able to as a gunner, and then as the driver they can move the tank evasively if need be, rather then telling the driver who might not realize what is going on for a split second.

    I also practice this, as well as prefer SL's with transport squads to be if at all possible the engineer on board, yes there is a time when you might have to fly, but its also good so you can coordinate with the commander and not have to worry about opening up the map and crashing. I prefer to be a SL on a BH as the engineer, but thats just me. Dirtboy, default player, and liquid watcher are excellent pilots as SLs but they are very experienced pilots and know the ins and outs.

    As Skud mentioned and I still don't understand why this happens, it might be darwin working and weeding out the darwin candidates, but why must helo pilots, fly when they are not needed???? Don't answer that I am going to make a thread about it.

    SLs and Commander (I will be the first to admit my fault with this) Need to speak clearly and calmly to each other, its tough when you have squad members talking to you, but as AFSoccer (the commander of Commanders) and D1sposablehero (The Second Commander of Commanders) Has told me countless times and my fellow TG regs, ask the squad members to be quiet, and also ask the commander if you can speak.

    I also will be the first to admit that I sometimes talk to much, and i sometimes hit and talk to the wrong squad, i usually apologize and tell them the right info, but talking to separate squads is key.

    I also can become aggravated when the CO has to be in the thick and thin of the battle, when has this ever been useful unless it is a dire circumstance? Was Eisenhower on Omaha beach with the first dozen landing crafts? History has proved that he wasn't. Unless its the end of a match, or if a SL requests all the backup they can get and you are the closest, or if there is bunker glitch that only the commander can fix, or if a vehicle needs to be brought up, the commander IMHO should stay back.....remember a commander can not issue a build order if he/she is dead (last time i checked)

    Remember be courteous, because whoever is a commander one right might be your SL or squad member the next round. Courtesy goes along way, and so does being a mature team/game player.
    Randy = Ace ! - Warlab






    Randy/Bob/Magnum
    RSS Feeds:Bamboo | |TG-31st| LR IHS Info | 9/11 - Never Forget |
    Apophis - "TG was created to cater to a VERY specific type of gamer rather than trying to appeal to the greater gaming population.
    Tactical Gamer is not mainstream.
    We are not trying to attract mainstream gamers."


  16.  
  17. #24


    Join Date
    May 2008
    Posts
    155

    Re: Aggravations related to Commanding

    Just had an great experience as first time commander! And that was after two rounds of the team performing not so good. Just to let you know that you can get an excellent round as commander. See http://www.tacticalgamer.com/battlef...ml#post1027532 for a After Action Report.

    Disclaimer: my squads of random players also seem to be doing quite well if I have my attention with the game, so I am starting to believe that the horror stories about public players are just nonsense

  18.  

     
  19. #25

    Eavy Gunner's Avatar

    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    North East Lincolnshire, England.
    Age
    19
    Posts
    817

    Re: Aggravations related to Commanding

    Top tip for squad leaders: use common sense.

  20.  
  21. #26

    billyinorganic's Avatar

    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Posts
    150

    Re: Aggravations related to Commanding

    An experiance...

    Me- "squad 7 commander. We are withdrawing from that position."
    "we are down 100 tickets and your men are dieing out there, we are going to switch to defense"
    "i want you to come up to the mine now"

    No response... i give a defend order at the mine (he was at processing).

    Me- "squad 7 what is your status?"
    "squad 7 i know you can hear me, can you at least tell me whats going on"

    squad 7- "sorry commander? whats this defend order for"

    Me- "we are down 100 tickets and we are switching to defense, i want everyone to move to defend mine"

    no responce..

    me- "squad 7 can you at least tell me whats down there"

    no reply.

    squad 1, who has moved down to processing as well, after i told them to move elsewhere and talked to them about "waiting with hat kits near the road north to mine and ambushing the tanks near the entrance to mine"... we talked of the tactics and the SL said that was a good plan.... Then he just ran to processing and started to tell me about how there was "tanks at processing"... Squad 3, who did follow orders, was down at processing earlier and already told me that tanks were there, and this was part of the conversation with squad 1... Hell, they were little birds pilots and i convinced them to switch tactics and set up an ambush. instead of course they ran to processing and died, lost the hat kit and kept spawning and rushing in for some reason... what ever..

    I am now a bit frustrated and tell squad 7 that i am going to have to report him for not following orders. He says nothing...
    I then do this,

    "Squad 7, follows orders" and i give him defense marker after defense marker on the mine, spamming him in a sense.

    FIANLLY! he replies

    "commander what is this defense marker for?"

    I cant beleive it, i tell him agian about how i need him at mine..
    He then applogises and says "sorry, cant defend my guys are trigger happy"
    I look at his squads score... 21 and 50... he had 14 kills and 11 deaths, his other members had no more then 3 kills... They had so many deaths i then say to him

    "You have disobeyed orders and your squad is doing horrible"

    I report him in general chat..

    he then replies

    "yea commander! report me when i am down here trying to take the flag, everyone else is up at mine..."

    i told him

    "yea, truthfully i don't mind what you do, it's just that i wanted to try to switch the whole team onto defense and try this tactic, since we are already down 100 tickets. I thought that if we were to organize a good...".... i yammered his head off with my plan in all of it's detail to him... I did this because i was slightly annoyed at how lame he was being...
    listen close
    to the rat-tat-tat-
    as the metal flies,
    we should know as fact:
    that unearthly demons
    are part of our pack,
    and as we engage you
    in battle we pass.

  22.  
  23. #27

    fuzzhead's Avatar

    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Windsor, Ontario, Canada
    Posts
    1,028

    Re: Aggravations related to Commanding

    yea billy i feel the frustration man.... some squad leaders are so bent on rushing and killing that they will ignore any order other than "ATTACK THE FLAG!!!!!!!!!!"

    its so simplistic mindset, these are usually the times i leave commander seat, cause its obvious these types of players have no intention of obeying orders or listening to any kind of reasonable request...

  24.  

     
  25. #28


    Skud's Avatar

    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    NY
    Age
    21
    Posts
    8,044
    Blog Entries
    15

    Re: Aggravations related to Commanding

    Thats when I start yelling.

    If yelling doesnt work, report them.

    If all else fails, reformat your hard drive.

  26.  
  27. #29


    Join Date
    May 2008
    Posts
    155

    Re: Aggravations related to Commanding

    Make sure you wait at least 10 minutes after yelling before leaving. Today I had a commander who grew ever frustrated about our team and the, in his eyes, much better coordinated opposing MEC team at Kashan. At the end he just kept yelling about firebases along the ridge to the east of the bunker complex. And that we needed to get Vodniks and clear it up.

    This was while capping South Village and heading to the bunkers only to have our truck blown up by a HAT, leaving us stranded. Got a chopper which semi-crashed after flying 10 metres. Got a second chopper which was blown up after dropping us off at the southern entrance. There we got into a close firefight and we were occupied. I am quite sure that the other squads were busy too as they were trying to capture the bunker flags.

    Back to the commander who was yelling. I replied we would try but by then he already had enough and left. Most of our squad got killed so I ordered a spawn at main base to get a vodnik and some Spec Ops and Engineers kits. All done, so we drove off to the eastern ridge. ...nothing ...except for two snipers who we left alone as we didn't want to attract attention. We drove further, still no enemy bases but we did see 3 (three!) friendly vodniks coming from the north and we had cleared the entire ridge just as the commander told us too. It just takes a while, especially on Kashan.

    Our squad went back to the snipers and I had everybody holding their fire while we watched how Sapienta got behind the snipers and knifed both of them... how we laughed! Then we continued winning that game.

  28.  
  29. #30

    Sabre_Tooth_Tigger's Avatar

    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    eurasia
    Posts
    3,588
    Blog Entries
    2

    Re: Aggravations related to Commanding

    ^^ That just sounds like the puppet master approach tbh
    He yanks the strings and expects you to dance, even if an immediate response were possible that is not the way to make best use of people


    If you find yourself in a fair fight, then you have obviously failed to plan properly.

  30.  

     

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts


  
 

Back to top