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Discussion: Project Reality / PR:BF2 - Sorry, but I need to... - I am not looking to single anyone out, it just happened today yet again that
  1. #16

    Drayu's Avatar

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    Re: Sorry, but I need to...

    I am not looking to single anyone out, it just happened today yet again that squads were insta locked off the get go. I made a "tow too" squad out of pure frustration. As I have said in my first post, this is not just because of today, but because of a daily occurence that makes me quit from playing on my favorite PR server.

    I come to TG b/c I expect to see great gameplay. I expect to see Regs and Pubs playing side by side, helping each other out. I come to TG to play frankly on the best PR server out there. I am sorry if you are offended b/c you appear in that screen shot, it just happened to be you this time.

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  3. #17


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    Re: Sorry, but I need to...

    I'm not elite, i'm awesome. And yeah it's my server, i paid for it!! Haha, nah just joking around.

    People should just listen to orders. Newcomers and veterans. Newcomers don't know they should and veterans sometimes think they know best. Let's communicate then! Tell people you think their orders are bad. If they won't listen and still keeping doing wrong, leave the squad or report them if it's bad.

    As i've been commanding some in PR lately i've seen some asset-hogging and other stuff going on these days. Every squad wants to do THEIR thing, TG or not. The usual routine is that i give squads orders but they don't want to defend. Or another squad keeps going into the uncap. Or another just isn't working together. And they start shouting excuses, blaming me, other squads etc. So i use lots of time trying to tell squads we need to work together and try to get them to do so. And it's hard and frustrating i tell you. As a last resort i've started right out threatening to report people. It usually gets their attention, but it's not the friendly TG environment i want but it's a necessary evil.

    We've got great admin coverage at TG, thankfully. So use it. Report things that are really bad. TG or not. And reporting it once is enough.




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  5. #18

    CryOfTheWulfen's Avatar

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    Re: Sorry, but I need to...

    On Qwai the thing is that TOW squad didnt actually request the TOW humvees we got them when they were there and let other people have them if they got there first (which happened on several occasions, mostly to the result of being 1 manned, but that is not the point)
    On the way out of Base we were also shot at, and i ended up going black and white so i think this is another major problem, we hadnt done anything wrong, infact the second TOW was actually left for the masses and still there when we got back. If the CO does not say the assets are free so if you dont have to leave them alsone, get annoyed and shoot us. (im not saying you Drayu but it was really frustrating)
    Squad 1 was locked but they werent using any vechiles so its their preference and of no inconvinience to others, just make our own
    And there are only 3 LBs so if there are 4 in a aquad it causes arguments over who flies, plus they were being shot down most of the time not crashing, god that Default player is good...

    CryWolf
    Last edited by CryOfTheWulfen; 06-28-2008 at 06:37 AM. Reason: noticed he was TOW TOO
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  7. #19


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    Re: Sorry, but I need to...

    There was a question in another thread because Commanders often give the assets to their buddies. Thats not right, if i am CO i give the assets to the players i know they can use it properly. Like in Qwai (TOW = for Marine if he is there, he know how to do it, ....). After a time playing on the TG server you know the people that are good with some assets, so i want not lose it by not so experienced players.

    And locking a squad at startup is like Katanama/Wickens do, if i have played some rounds with my soldiers i want to play again with them, also the 6th, 10th, 15th first form up for their own buddies, but often then they open the squad then and you can join in, if you are lucky you get the spot.

    You always have the chat to ask for an invite. Sometimes it helps if you ask to be engi in a tank squad, if you are good, i am sure have then the chance to be gunner / driver. Sometimes you need a little bit reputation. Try to work it out.

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  9. #20


    d1sp0sabl3H3r0's Avatar

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    Re: Sorry, but I need to...

    Quote Originally Posted by Bullseye2550 View Post
    There was a question in another thread because Commanders often give the assets to their buddies. Thats not right, if i am CO i give the assets to the players i know they can use it properly. Like in Qwai (TOW = for Marine if he is there, he know how to do it, ....). After a time playing on the TG server you know the people that are good with some assets, so i want not lose it by not so experienced players.
    I agree - Marine is really good with the TOW. However, herein lies the problem: if Marine gets the TOWs every single round, then there is validity to the complaints about favoritism to |TG| tag wearers. The whole point is is that we need to spread the assets around to other players. Does anyone honestly think that Marine could possibly be the only player competent in a TOW? I doubt it (and I'm not picking on Marine here - I'm following on the example Bullseye used).

    Let other people have a turn in the assets - PLEASE!

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  11. #21

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    Re: Sorry, but I need to...

    It's good to see nothing has changed since I left. These problems have been presented ever since the start of PR and TG. One of the main things you need to do before creating one of these threads is make sure you know all the rules regarding assests. Like I said, this has been argued a million times, and usually the OP can't win. Asset hogging will happen, you have to decide if it's worth complaining about.




    oh and i'm back...almost.

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  13. #22

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    Re: Sorry, but I need to...

    This do bring up an interesting line of questions, and this is a quite valid concern. There are people, or groups of people, who are overly active regarding the handling of certain assets. I do fully understand the arguement "the best person for the job", but it will only leave those already skilled at certain assets quite alone at the top of the food chain.

    We want a positive and creative gaming enviroment where the gameplay and the server have something to offer our guests and TG-members alike. We all know that the server administration make very little difference [actually none] between our guests and TG-members. Our most welcome guests have equal rights to the assets as TG-members do, considering the the distribution of assets are along the lines of the rules and guidelines of the server. An idea could be that those most frequent in certain assets take a step back and ask themselves the questions - "Do I have to do that today?". Because there are more people around.

    Also, on a side note but also related to the topic - a player that arenīt as skilled as "You" have the same rights as "You" to an asset, regardless if "You" like it or not. And...if this person happen to crash a chopper or jet, or make any other mistake that "You" would not do, isnīt a reason to put that person down or make any hostile and negative remarks.


    And what about me? Been here for a couple of years, several hundreds of hours of gaming - have never piloted a chopper or jet, but do still have a blast.
    Last edited by Steiner; 06-30-2008 at 08:14 AM.
    443.Urban Infantry Bat. / Bat. Anti-tank Platoon



    "...There is no situation that is ever so bad that it can't get worse..."

    "...and suicide isnīt an option either, since it would probably make some prick happy...But does one hear the blast?

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  15. #23

    Ferris Bueller's Avatar

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    Re: Sorry, but I need to...

    There are several things to consider here.

    First is the ruleset. Disposable made an excellent post outlining the rule very clearly. If theres no commander, the assets are first come first served. If people steal them, it cant really be helped. No orders have been given and therefore there is no disobedience going on. However, there is a matter of courtesy to consider. If you have someone waiting in line for an asset, it's generally common courtesy to let them have it instead of serving your "i want it now" impulse.

    Second, there is selfishness. Lets be realistic about it here folks. You join the server and the map is Qwai. There is already a TOW squad, but no commander. But you WANT the tow for yourself, so you create your own TOW squad, which you KNOW is going to be a confrontational act. Why? Why purposefully create antagonism on the server? Not only are you creating a bigger workload for the admins by purposefully throwing a wrench into things, but you're also acting quite immaturely. It's selfish and it's what I like to call Veruca Salt syndrome (for those that dont understand the reference, go watch Willy Wonka...Veruca Salt was the little girl who had to have everything she wanted or she pitched a fit).

    Third, there is the strategy angle. Ok, so we have a three man tow squad. That gives us one driver, one gunner, one engineer. It also leaves one TOW humvee in reserve in case the first gets nuked. This is a far more effective strategy than having them both out in the field and vulnerable. Think strategically folks. We're not called TacticalGamer for nothing.

    Now let me give a personal analysis:
    Sure, everyone has a right to the assets. Thats a given. But lets be adult about it folks. If you join up on the server and you see that although there is no commander but people have formed asset squads, try and put your own wants behind the needs of the team for once. Go be an infantry squad. Find yourself another useful position. By creating your own asset squad, youre provoking antagonism, acting childish, and wasting valuable time for your team by sitting at main (or wherever) and fighting over the assets.

    Do TG members get assets a majority of the time? Sure. TG members constitute the majority of the regulars on the server. We have several regulars who dont wear the tags who are on just as much, but the sheer percentage of people who have opted to put the tag on is much larger. Larger percentage equals larger chance. Basic mathematics. Do we hog them intentionally or EVER say to people "non-TG tagged people cant have such and such asset"? ABSOLUTELY NOT. So while the math points to a greater statistical probability of TG tag wearing people having use of the assets, scapegoating people wearing the tag as the OP did is wrong and I'm sick of seeing it.

    It's the same thing with saying that people in IHS are "elitist". Sure, there are going to be some that are. But you know what, they might have a right to be, if only just a little. Some of the IHS dont have an "apply and join" policy. Some of them are really very hard to get into and the selection criteria are very strict. Should people be allowed to pat themselves on the back and hold the people they play with to a higher standard? You're damn right they should. I expect a higher standard from anyone who joins my squad. But you know what, my squads also have a good time too. So if you'd like to call that elitism, be my guest.

    So let me sum this up simply: in stark contrast to the OP's rant, perhaps the problem isnt as much about people wearing TG tags hogging assets, but people who arent using the fact that they see tagged people in assets more often as an excuse to have a rant. Call me silly, but I see the OP's actions as childish and ridiculous. You aimed at starting a fight by creating the squad. You said you did it because you were angry, so it's by your own admission that you werent motivated by anything but your own selfish intent. Thats not the way we do business here.

    Let's grow the hell up kids. Seriously.

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  17. #24

    Portable.Cougar's Avatar

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    Re: Sorry, but I need to...

    I sure would like to use a attack chopper once in a real round.

    Never have, but would sure like to.

    Hell I've flown a chopper no more than 2 times in the 1.5 + yrs I've played at TG. Is it because I dont want to? Nah, I just never got in the sqaud in time.


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  19. #25

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    Re: Sorry, but I need to...

    Quote Originally Posted by TheSkudDestroyer View Post
    If you don't wish to be singled out don't be guilty in the first place!
    So I'm guilty for flying a little bird? After I had played infantry and SL for the past 15 rounds

    Quote Originally Posted by Drayu View Post
    I am not looking to single anyone out, it just happened today yet again that squads were insta locked off the get go
    Just for the record the squad I made was not insta-locked. I left it open and locked it when 3 guys joined, and they weren't even close friends or anything...

    I had never even played with them before.
    __ __ ___ ___ ___ ___ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __

    The main question I have is, what could I do to get people who don't usually fly in the squad? I don't know who has and who hasn't, and if I did I would have to lock the squad and invite those certain people. This would further enrage players because I insta-locked the squad.

    Its like the only way to avoid this problem is to not use assets...

    Before I thought the problem was regulars pushing around pubbies for assets. I KNOW, I no longer do that. But, I don't think thats the case now. Now, its just people are using the assets. Some may think I hog the assets but just look for me on a round with assets to see what I'm doing. Most of the time you can see a squad called "Sonic INF" or I'll be in a squad with a great SL.

    About 1/5 of the time when there is a map with a flying thing I'll fly because its something I enjoy and find extremely fun.

    btw, Ferris I love your post, it brought up the same ideas that I was thinking about, but didn't have the guts to say.
    Last edited by Sonic; 06-30-2008 at 12:30 PM.

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  21. #26

    Rafterman1987's Avatar

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    Re: Sorry, but I need to...

    Ferris just dropped a tactical nuke right on the issue at heart. Accusing people of looking out for themselves while looking out for yourself...

    Now to build on what Ferris said...

    The locked asset squads happen because squad leaders like to cap their squads once they reach enough squad members to maximize their usefulness. The TOW squad is best at 3. Now they didn't start the squad locked, I rarely see asset squads start locked. Anyone is free to join an asset squad, it's not like they're only inviting people they know. Most of the "invite your buddies" squads on the server turn out to be infantry.

    Best bets on getting into armor, helo, apc, etc squads once they're full is to ask that SL early on to invite you if a spot opens up. Even with the commander the first come first served rules apply. The first squad leader to make the asset squad usually gets assigned to run said asset by the comm.

    Getting bent out of shape because you don't get to drive the pretty vehicle isn't worth your time. Especially the TOW humvee... Let's just say that's not a job for the easily bored...

    Now in situations where the squad assigned to run assets isn't using them and I get kicked out by the comm I use this procedure:
    1) wonder why that squad is inept, regardless of what their situation is or if they are in fact inept (it's more for me than them )
    2) pout
    3) call for transport out of base
    4) sit and meditate while waiting for transport
    5) arrive at inner peace on the issue while waiting for transport
    6) forgive the parties involved with step 1
    7) grab a support kit and let out some aggression

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  23. #27

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    Re: Sorry, but I need to...

    Ferris, I believe I said I created the Tow Too squad out of frustration, not anger....and I was frustrated b/c the first one Tow squad was locked, and being in the second Tow I had to create a new squad.

    I restate, this is just one day of occurrence highlighted....but this happens on a daily basis. I don't feel I am acting childish, I may have not taken the time to create a well spoken original post, but I had to say what I did. I had to say it because it has become increasingly apparent that if you take someone else's asset, there is trouble. You may not see it or notice it, but try sitting back and watching logs or BR recorders of people standing on assets until the person gets out.

    And, I restate, that I have played here on TG for a long time, and I do enjoy the server, I just hate to see the "its mine" attitude that is growing amongst the "elite" players.

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  25. #28


    Delta*RandyShugart*'s Avatar

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    Re: Sorry, but I need to...

    There have been several times in the last 3 months when I have commanded and have noticed a squad wasting assets that are assigned to them/not taking into effect the necessity of them and using them for pleasure rather for the team. I have taken those priviledges (sp?) away from them, and have heard their SL's and team members complain to me, and I have gladly given a different squad the chance to use them. It happens every once and a while, and then those who were just using them for fun realize that they cost their team tickets and have lost the chance to play seriously.

    I don't necessarily agree why there are locked squads, its very easy to ask a person to leave the squad if you have a 3man littlebird squad, especially with no commander on board. Or you could say "I'm going to fly (use the tow) this time, do you mind doing some infantry work while you wait for your turn?", or maybe have a engineer use a humvee and follow you.

    Remember no matter what, a Marine is a Rifleman from start to finish.

    I just don't see when a commander isn't in place why players both regs and non-regs feel they can lock squads. I have joined a squad before that wasn't locked and was asked to leave because they wanted to have a 4 man recon squad, ok, its understandable and i left to start or join another. Its the actions that can speak louder than words.

    If there is a commander on board then its a whole different ball game. If the commander asks you to unlock it, then you better unlock it, if a commander wants to keep a locked squad that is his/her choice.

    .75 has felt as if it has been out for longer than it has, and I know most of us know the maps from all different directions, that is why it is important to let new faces in your squads that might not necessarily call for them to be. Being tactical can also mean showing new people the ropes, its what makes TG great. We are mature gamers who knokw how to play and play well, but we also extend ourselves to new mature gamers who want to know what it is like to be a tactical gamer.

    Personally I feel that locked squads should only exist if there is a commander on board, but thats IMHO.
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  27. #29

    Rafterman1987's Avatar

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    Re: Sorry, but I need to...

    Well, I agree even assigned assets get wasted. There's a notion on the server that the APCs need their own squad. I disagree with this when they're sitting at base or constantly off on their own being destroyed.

    Lets take EJOD for an example of how I like to run the APC. Last week I was SL of a USMC infantry squad that was getting chewed up attacking west city. After awhile we got sick of it and grabbed an APC.

    We ran it as follows:
    - APC attacks the general area. Hopefully killing off some of the resistance.
    - Infantry exits APC, apc falls back as infantry moves ahead spotting for anti-tank
    - APC moves up a safe distance behind infantry providing close support

    It worked well, much better than another apc squad covering us. We had direct communication with the APC and it was used to provide direct cover to the infantry once it was done its transport role.

    Dedicated APC squads are a bit uselss IMO. One of the few times I think reserving assets is a tad unfair.

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  29. #30


    d1sp0sabl3H3r0's Avatar

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    Re: Sorry, but I need to...

    Quote Originally Posted by Rafterman1987 View Post
    Well, I agree even assigned assets get wasted. There's a notion on the server that the APCs need their own squad. I disagree with this when they're sitting at base or constantly off on their own being destroyed.

    Lets take EJOD for an example of how I like to run the APC. Last week I was SL of a USMC infantry squad that was getting chewed up attacking west city. After awhile we got sick of it and grabbed an APC.

    We ran it as follows:
    - APC attacks the general area. Hopefully killing off some of the resistance.
    - Infantry exits APC, apc falls back as infantry moves ahead spotting for anti-tank
    - APC moves up a safe distance behind infantry providing close support

    It worked well, much better than another apc squad covering us. We had direct communication with the APC and it was used to provide direct cover to the infantry once it was done its transport role.

    Dedicated APC squads are a bit uselss IMO. One of the few times I think reserving assets is a tad unfair.

    Rafter - there are cases where a 2 or 3-man apc squad, working in a coordinated fashion with a full 6-man infantry squad as a mechanized infantry works extremely well. We do this quite often in the 10th, using TS for coordination between squads. We usually dominate those maps when working together in this way.

    It really is up to the SL of the particular squad to use an assigned asset in the way he/she feels is best suited to help their team.

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