Re: Team switchers

**SamO** · 07-02-2008, 11:54 AM

PR is a special game, you don't sit down and say, "I'm going to play PR for 15 minutes." No, you dedicate at least 45 minutes or so. in CS you could hop on for a single round or a few, but the player base on the server at any given time will be random. That environment is dynamic. The PR server enviroment is more static, as in you're going to be with the same people for at least 45 minutes or more, then the next round starts and you're still with the same people for another 2 hours. That's why is it's so evident when one team is 'stacked'.

**d1sp0sabl3H3r0** · 07-02-2008, 11:58 AM

Whatever.

No one sets out to stack the teams. Read Snoogums post - he explains how things get to be the way they are in such simple terms: A team with more supporting members (ie. more |TG| tags) will be better coordinated over time because they don't get kicked for other SMs, while the other team loses players throughout the course of a map or two and becomes less and less organized.

It doesn't get any easier than that to understand.

**sirsolo** · 07-02-2008, 12:10 PM

I always seem to be on the losing team (Huh.. that may mean something, but I swear its not me!!!) But if I have 4 rounds that end horribly, I try commanding one. And the problem usually surfaces at that point!

"Alright, Im Sirsolo, your new commander §Does commaning thingers, SLs either dont do it, dont talk, or ignore it... usually all three§ Okay. I can see the team isnt going to do anything for me, so I wont do anything for the team. Good luck!"
§Takes a break.§

Usually how it goes. =P

But yeah... It would be nice if teams were balanced more often.

-Sirsolo

**SamO** · 07-02-2008, 01:39 PM

One factor cannot determine everything, especially one like SM's. If one person gets kicked out, the whole team isn't just gonna fall apart. Typically SM's are the ones who are coordinated anyway, and if they're replacing people, it should be a fair trade, but again if they like to go where all the other TG/SM players are, that's where imbalance comes from.

No situation is that black and white, including team stacking.

**Sabre_Tooth_Tigger** · 07-02-2008, 02:27 PM

Take it as a challenge to your ego, go on the weaker side and turn the tide. Theres always fairly simple fundamental things a team wont do because it doesnt involve a kill or high score and is maybe a bit boring.
You can only train properly running up hill, good practice is always switching to the weaker team

How about putting all the biased maps together. Like sunset > qwai > mestia > jabal > zatar > OGT

**d1sp0sabl3H3r0** · 07-02-2008, 02:43 PM

Ok - here's a thought:

Instead of just coming here to complain, offer a solution instead. Give the admins a reasonable way to fix this rampant teamstacking problem that is destroying our server...otherwise, don't post about it. We're tired of seeing rants, and those threads are gonna get locked in the future.

Ok, awaiting a workable solution....

**Fishbone** · 07-02-2008, 03:12 PM

Use facts instead of a subjective perspective; check the player list occasionally and see how many TG are on the same side. If there is a consistent trend of TG members stacking and winning then there might be a problem. You would probably only need to do this on those times where lots of TG regulars are playing. When I am playing (daytime in Europe) there are often only a couple of them and they are spread fairly evenly. (Personally I do not think that there is a problem.)

And about team switching in general. It only happens when the server is not full (which isn't that often) and has more to do with individuals than being a community issue. And if a individual needs to switch to a certain side to feel good then no rule or gentlemen's agreement will make him change his mind.

**imnotacanadian** · 07-02-2008, 03:28 PM

Any team can pull off a victory or close defeat. It's all in the leadership of maybe...3 or 4 players.

PM me if you disagree or want to see an example. I really don't feel like contributing any more to a sensless thread.

**Taip3n** · 07-02-2008, 05:05 PM

Originally Posted by d1sp0sabl3H3r0

Ok - here's a thought:

Instead of just coming here to complain, offer a solution instead. Give the admins a reasonable way to fix this rampant teamstacking problem that is destroying our server...otherwise, don't post about it. We're tired of seeing rants, and those threads are gonna get locked in the future.

Ok, awaiting a workable solution....

Dirtboy has said he will kick blatant teamswitchers that is based over evidence over a period of time.

I commend him for it.

You have discussed the implausability to prove teamswitching rightly so because of variables such as disconnects, or wanting to join your chums - all perfect valid (who would want to punish the innocent, too?).

I am sure alot of open minds keep that in mind when they write 'useless threads such as this'.

The issue is not that - people switch to be with chums, or to side with a loosing team. And certainly not the correctly assumed, more SL's will stay on as non - supporting members are kicked for them. However by this logic too, chance dictates that also other non-supporting members will join also increasing the 'loosing teams' ability to win as a team. So in the short term it may be acurate, but this argument is a mute point by it very own logic. It is not about the ability to speak in Teamspeak either or being organised, PR has this ability in game and with the right people and knowledge base, or just simply will, that team can beat a 'teamspeak team', or any team. So this is mute too. Furthermore, it is correct that teams do have a run of bad games and then this can be changed just like that, with variables such as other players join - including non - supporting members.

None of this is why the thread was started. As said, it is not even about the people switching to the loosing team:

It is about people switch to the winning team, or unwilling to put up with 'the pubbies' (which can be and is contrued as offensive as it carries 'moral undertones' of what these players are like - i.e. all non-supporting or TG are pubbies and pubbies are by nature arrogant and ignorant). The point of the matter, is that there seems to be a trend - unprovable by an empirical method unlesss you were a very good programmer with statistical knowledge, and the ability to use the right 'tools' to check the trend of people teamswitching/loosing, the point is is that we 'are noticing it', and are airing it is failing the server. (... and for example tools have been done for other games for things like, character logins vs people saying "prove it" when accused that a character has been traded and they are not the original owner, or used characters in a 'roleplay sense' to other sinister advantages, like selling items for real life cash, hacks, etc: in a roleplaying game, so this tool searches for 'truths').

However! The point is, not some 'overall workable control' on the matter, teamspeak, who knows who, and whatever, it is about:

Self control and the inner knowledge that to teamswitch because 'the people I was playing with, or, the team, are a bunch of mindless idiots - smacks of arrogance. Because yes, it is also right, a person does not know all the variables (maybe the individuals/squad/team you were in were just having a bad time), disconnects, or been having a good time or bad time games before, even days before. Peoplpe teamswitching to be with chums, etc etc is all fine, this 'arrogance' to not stay put with the team, life has chosen you, also smacks of 'I can't be bothered, and so you do not input into that team. Maybe there is one person, one squad, one commander, one team that will appretiate it - but you do not stick around to even try.

It is about not only do quite a few people ('seemingly') do this, stated above, they also switch to the winning side because 'they are more organised', or simply they are winning, can't be bothered to try with the plebs, or indeed, all the above.

Over time, it seems, people are doing this. Is is not about the TG tag, teamspeak, or not: it is about 'the way' (you can call that the TG - or NOT the TG way, if you wish).

**Sabre_Tooth_Tigger** · 07-02-2008, 05:13 PM

I think its fair enough to switch to any team that has less players.
A couple of times I left and rejoined the server in the hope of ending up on the same team as the rest of my squad (after ctd, etc), if you havent spawned I figure thats fair enough

**Belhade** · 07-02-2008, 06:18 PM

I'm a dirty, dirty teamswitcher. Yes, I admit it.

The other night I got on to play at the end of Fool's Road. One of my fellow 6th was on my team (British) and I saw a few more on the other side. Next map, Kashan the teams loaded up unevenly; the 6th on my side wasn't there anymore and I couldn't switch. I just joined an existing squad; our team won as MEC. After that, Sunset City I finally managed to switch over at round start - but there were no longer any other 6th on the server!

Now, I'd never switch sides because my team was losing. I'll switch at the very start (or, sometimes at the very end) to play with some of my friends. Not to sound elitist but I pay my dues and joined an IHS so I could play with a regular group of friends, not to teach random pubbies formations. I do that anyways with my TG Style squads.

**llPANCHOll** · 07-02-2008, 06:31 PM

Possible solution,

If your are dissatasfied with the lack of teamwork you see, get a supporting membership, form an IHS with a couple guys you enjoy playing with, and then play with them on a regular basis. Then, win or loose, your still hanging out with your mates!

**Taip3n** · 07-02-2008, 06:44 PM

Originally Posted by Belhade

I'm a dirty, dirty teamswitcher. Yes, I admit it..

...Now, I'd never switch sides because my team was losing. I'll switch at the very start (or, sometimes at the very end) to play with some of my friends. Not to sound elitist but I pay my dues and joined an IHS so I could play with a regular group of friends, not to teach random pubbies formations. I do that anyways with my TG Style squads.

The first two points are fine, and are infact alright.

At least you don't teamswitch because they are loosing - or for reasons you feel they are inapropriate for you to stay with them. Infact you say "never" and that is respectable as well as good spirited.

As for paying and being in an IHS. Fine too. You paid your dues, as you said (though RL matters always come first as I am sure you agree, so 'others' dues' should not be a factor, as you alude to) and you play to be in a IHS and get to a higher level of experience.

The last, is great too, taking time out (if I have read right) to actually hang out with "random pubbies" and do something extra. Heck, I haven't done formations (american ones, that is, I take it) and as for bog standard 'pubbie squads', I'll SL for you or be in one to also do 'the TG way' (as it's not only about TG ways, really, is it).

In none of this can I see where you are "a dirty teamswitcher". Maybe you miss the point.

**caffeine** · 07-02-2008, 06:53 PM

This thread must die and I'm going to kill it.

[media]http://videos2.theonion.com/onion/onion_video/2008/07/01/MILEY_CYRUS.flv[/media]

**Taip3n** · 07-02-2008, 07:30 PM

Sorry that's a rip off of the British 'Brass Eye' and 'The Day Today'

They were done like... 15 years ago? Amazing, is the word for them.

Seems close to them though... but no cigar.

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