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Discussion: Project Reality / PR:BF2 - me + boredom = - I don't understand the graphs at all nor do I understand what you're saying period.
  1. #16

    TheTonkaTruck's Avatar

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    Re: me + boredom =

    I don't understand the graphs at all nor do I understand what you're saying period. Are the graphs saying my bullet travels upward as it flys away from me towards the target? Cause that's what I see. A line moving up as it goes left to right.


    You're resident FireFighter/EMT TonkaTruck <3

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  3. #17

    meeeeee8880's Avatar

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    Re: me + boredom =

    in my experience of using the sniper in .75, around 500-600m distance, i have to aim a tiny bit below the target to make a hit. at greater distances, i have noticed i can just put the crosshairs on the target itself. im not certain if this is related in any way, but that is my experience.

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  5. #18

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    Re: me + boredom =

    Quote Originally Posted by TheTonkaTruck View Post
    I don't understand the graphs at all nor do I understand what you're saying period. Are the graphs saying my bullet travels upward as it flys away from me towards the target? Cause that's what I see. A line moving up as it goes left to right.
    no it does not show that the bullet is rising it shows how much the bullet have dropped when it reaches a certain point

    Quote Originally Posted by BeerHunter View Post
    Have to correct you here..the "muzzle lifting" (aka "recoil") occurs AFTER the bullet leaves the muzzle.

    While the bullet is inside the barrel , the gun , bullet , gases burning and expanding etc are all one single entity.

    To paraphrase .."for every action there is an equal and opposite reaction" and in this case the "action" is the bullet being expelled from the gun and this then creates the "equal and opposite reaction" , aka "recoil".
    No, the recoil starts when the bullet start moving because for the bullet to accelerate there have to be a reaction which is the recoil. As soon as the bullet have left the barrel it is not accelerating anymore therefore it does not exert a force on the gun.

    A good marksman can control his recoil and thereby make the bullet fly the intended path, scopes are also zeroed for each individual and his shoting style therefore another person might not have as great succes with a weapon that is not zeroed for him.
    If people are becoming so bored when playing that they have to resort to this immature behaviour I will give them something to do, call it a project. The project is "appeal a ban". - Wicks




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  7. #19


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    Re: me + boredom =

    No, the recoil starts when the bullet start moving because for the bullet to accelerate there have to be a reaction which is the recoil. As soon as the bullet have left the barrel it is not accelerating anymore therefore it does not exert a force on the gun.
    That is exactly right. Useful stuff Katanama. Very well presented with graphs and corresponding functions.

    You were so bored.

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  9. #20

    Katanama's Avatar

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    Re: me + boredom =

    Well I have been messing aroud a little more in the training mod and have found out some more, frist off i have no clue where the marksman rifle is zeroed but at 500m the M14 drops to the first mildot marker in the scope. at 300m its roughly 2/3 to the first mildot and at 250m it seems to be right on target

    below is a picture of the spread of the impacts of the M16 (red circle) and the M14 (blue circle) the yellow circle is the general are where i aimed the M14, all shots were taken at 300m.



    on a sidenote there dont seem to be any deviation from the M4 or ironsights at 150m.
    If people are becoming so bored when playing that they have to resort to this immature behaviour I will give them something to do, call it a project. The project is "appeal a ban". - Wicks




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  11. #21

    Pwn3ge's Avatar

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    Re: me + boredom =

    Katanama--
    I have no critizism to hold. You did a great job, and you look like a really smart guy. ( Contrary to what i thought being in your squad)...
    Just kidding, you're a great squad leader, and i'm glad theres some people in TG with enough mindset to actually know how to math to most anything.
    Great job.
    +rep

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  13. #22

    imnotacanadian's Avatar

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    Re: me + boredom =

    Quote Originally Posted by IRS_Agent View Post
    I was referring to PR and that the engine does not use a total arc. I understand that IRL it is an arc. Read the rest of my post; if shots traveled in a straight line then shots on targets at less than the zeroed range would not need any aiming other than putting the center of the crosshairs on the target. No I don't often fire guns. Yes I have only fired .22s. I don't base what I know about ballistics on the .22s I've fired; I base that on what I've read. Please re-read my post as the section you are quoting refers to PR, NOT REAL LIFE.

    I had read your post about 5 times before I made that reply. And somehow I skipped over

    Quote Originally Posted by IRS_Agent View Post
    I was under the impression that drop was negative IRL if the target was before the zero. I.E. if you put a target in the crosshairs 100m away from your the shot would be high. Now I understood they didn't implement this in PR...

    Sorry bro. I was on my 30 minute lunch and in a hurry. Won't do that again




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  15. #23

    BigGaayAl's Avatar

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    Re: me + boredom =

    The graph confirms what devs have said (graph in 1st post): bulletdrop in BF2 is linear.
    What it's like to play online games as a grown-up:http://s3.amazonaws.com/theoatmeal-i...e_gaming/1.jpg

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  17. #24

    <1sk>Headshot's Avatar

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    Re: me + boredom =

    Quote Originally Posted by BigGaayAl View Post
    The graph confirms what devs have said (graph in 1st post): bulletdrop in BF2 is linear.
    Yeah.

    http://www.realitymod.com/forum/f66-...roing-wip.html

    I've played with the sniper quite a bit recently and it seems dead on, up to about 550m to me.

    The biggest shot I've made so far was 900 on kashan, me vs another sniper. We must have unloaded about 30 shots at each other before I finally scored a hit, had to aim about 2 standing up soldiers above him.

    Also, the L115 is by far the best weapon, it has the skinniest sights and does a one shot kill.
    Before the effect one believes in different causes than one does after the effect.

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  19. #25

    imnotacanadian's Avatar

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    Re: me + boredom =

    Quote Originally Posted by BigGaayAl View Post
    The graph confirms what devs have said (graph in 1st post): bulletdrop in BF2 is linear.
    ?!?!?!?!?!?!



    Where have you been??!??! Welcome back.




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  21. #26

    Sc[ + ]pe's Avatar

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    Re: me + boredom =

    Quote Originally Posted by imnotacanadian View Post
    When you pull the trigger, the muzzle will lift up due to the expanding gasses from the ignited powder. This is what gives the bullet the arc.
    I was under the impression that zeroed rifles have bullet arc because the sights are pitched down to zero at a range beyond the maximum distance achieved by a straight shot, so that the barrel is pitched up and thus creating an arc to target, like an artillery battery. I understand this isn't present in PR (no negative drop).

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  23. #27

    imnotacanadian's Avatar

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    Re: me + boredom =

    Quote Originally Posted by Sc[ + ]pe View Post
    I was under the impression that zeroed rifles have bullet arc because the sights are pitched down to zero at a range beyond the maximum distance achieved by a straight shot, so that the barrel is pitched up and thus creating an arc to target, like an artillery battery. I understand this isn't present in PR (no negative drop).
    I know what I'm talking about, but Katanama knows how to say it better. What he says here is 100% the truth, and there is nobody that will not have a very difficult time putting up even a plausible point against it.



    Quote Originally Posted by Katanama View Post
    No, the recoil starts when the bullet start moving because for the bullet to accelerate there have to be a reaction which is the recoil. As soon as the bullet have left the barrel it is not accelerating anymore therefore it does not exert a force on the gun.

    A good marksman can control his recoil and thereby make the bullet fly the intended path, scopes are also zeroed for each individual and his shoting style therefore another person might not have as great succes with a weapon that is not zeroed for him.




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  25. #28

    Sc[ + ]pe's Avatar

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    Re: me + boredom =

    I'm not refuting your argument, merely throwing my own theory into the fray. To better explain, I found a Wikipedia article (Wiki search: Rifleman's Rule) that illustrates my point. Quote "The bore angle is set to ensure that a bullet on a parabolic trajectory will intersect the LOS to the target at a specific range". Thus, it is not the recoil of a rifle that causes the arc of a bullet but a purposeful elevation of the bore angle to accommodate for a rifle zeroed beyond the range of a flat bullet trajectory.

    I also think that part of Katanama's argument is misleading, at least for me. Quote "...as soon as the bullet [sic] have left the barrel it is not accelerating anymore therefore it does not exert a force on the gun" seems to give the impression that the bullet continues to cause recoil as it travels down the barrel, and that this recoil is only stopped when the bullet exits the barrel. On that assumption, I disagree, as primary recoil is only created by the initial firing of a bullet (Newton's Law), and at no other time does the bullet create a reaction in the gun from its forward momentum. I do, however, understand that he is talking about primary recoil when addressing a marksman's ability to control recoil, as this is the only opposite reaction that a) can be compensated for and b) affects the bullet's flight path. To better understand my own argument, I did another quick search and came upon a mathematics breakdown of firearm recoil at bsharp.org. I cannot, at this time, post the full URL as I'm a lurker, not a poster.

    PS: I had to write this thing twice, because it erased my entire post when I tried submitting it with my sources in URL form. My original argument was MUCH more concise, d'oh!

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  27. #29

    Katanama's Avatar

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    Re: me + boredom =

    The bullet will be accelerating as long as the gas in the barrel is at a higher presure then the air around it. Therefore the bullet will be accelerating all the way down the barrel in most rifles. and as long as the bullet is accelerating there will be a force in the oppesite direction otherwise Newtons laws doesn't hold anymore
    But yes most of the recoil comes from the initial explotion.

    On a sidenote you are also correct in that the line of the barrel and the line of the scope intersects at some point. Yes that was accutually what i was trying to say in my preveus post but failed utterly
    If people are becoming so bored when playing that they have to resort to this immature behaviour I will give them something to do, call it a project. The project is "appeal a ban". - Wicks




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  29. #30

    Sabre_Tooth_Tigger's Avatar

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    Re: me + boredom =

    The expanding gases can be used for the muzzle brake, etc which can increase or decrease the recoil as I understand it so the total recoil will not be at ignition and the length of the barrel plays a part in the final speed of the bullet. What Katanama said makes sense there

    What is the natural range for a M16, 300m? Or which range would give the straightest most accurate trajectory to its path


    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muzzle_booster

    [media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z29pmY9SKQM[/media]


    Code:
    Model     Barrel length (mm)         Muzzle velocity (m/s) 
    L85A1       518                             940 
    L86A1 LSW   646                             970 
    M16A1       508                             945 
    M4A1        368                             884  
    MP5A3       225                             400


    If you find yourself in a fair fight, then you have obviously failed to plan properly.

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