Re: Getting your ammo bag back

**fuzzhead** · 08-02-2008, 12:47 PM

Also remember that the LOWER the mag count is, the MORE ammo the weapon "takes" and the longer it takes to recharge.

So a Light AT, being a mag count of 1, will take the longest and most ammo to rearm. Whereas a HAT,being a mag count of 2, will take half as much ammo and half the time.

Yes, that makes no sense whatsoever and is actually the opposite of what it should be, go figure DICE and their crazy ways :roll:

So reloading rifle with 9 mags is very fast and take very little ammo. reloading things like c4, field dressing, LAT, etc take alot of time and ammo.

v0.8 we will see ammo bag reduced further in its rearm. In v0.8, if you throw the bag down on the ground, you can "pick it back up" if you did not take anything else from it, but if someone grabs some ammo from it, and you try to pick it back up, the bag will disappear before you can get it back. We dont like the "wait wait lemme get my bag back" method of rearming, because yes its basically like a wizard pulling sht out of his ass.

**Charity Case** · 08-02-2008, 01:55 PM

Originally Posted by Fishbone

...Is that how it works? That would mean that a ammo bag should never be reloaded by the rifleman during combat as you are bound to have used your field dressing or a few clips. That is, unless you are willing to throw the ammo bag a couple of times.

Quite right Fishbone, although I think the ammo bag currently has enough ammo to rearm a few extra magazines once you've already fully rearmed two pieces of equipment.

Originally Posted by fuzzhead

Also remember that the LOWER the mag count is, the MORE ammo the weapon "takes" and the longer it takes to recharge.

Yes, but I'm pretty sure it takes the same amount of ammo and time to rearm any piece of equipment, it's just that equipment with more magazines or charges seems to rearm faster because the process is broken up into smaller increments.

**Sabre_Tooth_Tigger** · 08-02-2008, 05:05 PM

That'd make sense. The 8 clips of a rifle = 1 ammo point and the 1 LAT rocket also equals 1 ammo point to the rearming system so HAT would be at least twice as fast which is about right

I like the change anyway because 2 guys standing round an ammo bag in the middle of a battle is a fail

**sirsolo** · 08-03-2008, 04:11 PM

A few of my random notes:

1) Being this complicated, its good that you almost never see people even using them!
2) My tip: When you are using a request kit 90% of the time in your squad and you spawn at your rally, spawn rifleman and ammo your rally. It is usually around 125m (a fair distance) close to the action, and just might take less time then arguing about it, or waiting for multiple ammo bags to recharge.
3) Never thought it to be realistic. I dont bother with getting my bag back, since it isss kind of an exploit..

§Sirsolo

**imnotacanadian** · 08-04-2008, 12:40 AM

I always try to remember to drop my field dressings too before I request a kit. It helps.

**BigGaayAl** · 08-04-2008, 06:41 AM

I would like to see ammo on RP's backn and from cars. It really pisses me off the way the ammo is done right now. You can almost never count on a good supply even if you try to be prepared. Then the ammo bags also magically disappear often before you can get anything at all from it. This is a bug, not like what charity explained. It seems to be consistent troughout a whole map when it happens.

The ammo situation now pisses me off just a little less then the "unavailable due to squad limitations" when I want to get an automatic rifleman in my squad. How can you ever have proper squad tactics if you get this message for half a map? Sorry for going off topic, but the ammo bs, and the inability to consistently get a correct loadout for your squad are the N1 issues that should be fixed imo.

I wouldn't mind getting rid of the ammobags alltogether and bringing back the ammo on RP's (its backpacks! you can even see the ammo in th militia RP!) or cars (lots of space in the trunk no?).

**sirsolo** · 08-04-2008, 07:47 AM

Originally Posted by BigGaayAl

I would like to see ammo on RP's backn and from cars. It really pisses me off the way the ammo is done right now. You can almost never count on a good supply even if you try to be prepared. Then the ammo bags also magically disappear often before you can get anything at all from it. This is a bug, not like what charity explained. It seems to be consistent troughout a whole map when it happens.

The ammo situation now pisses me off just a little less then the "unavailable due to squad limitations" when I want to get an automatic rifleman in my squad. How can you ever have proper squad tactics if you get this message for half a map? Sorry for going off topic, but the ammo bs, and the inability to consistently get a correct loadout for your squad are the N1 issues that should be fixed imo.

I wouldn't mind getting rid of the ammobags alltogether and bringing back the ammo on RP's (its backpacks! you can even see the ammo in th militia RP!) or cars (lots of space in the trunk no?).

From what I remember, you can get ammo from most cars... just right click.

As for the bags...they are also measured as ammunition, and when people throw a bag, that bag gives them ammunition. So its EXACTLY like Charity said, and if you get nothing from an ammo bag, then there are simply too many of you trying to get a big thing at once. (This is proved by the fact that you get ammo bags from other ammo supplies) Its not a glitch... its just not programmable. (A glitch is like being able to put a tank underground when repairing a runway...)
As for the "unavaible due to squad limitations" thats just bad squadwork... Get it clear that you are going to be the heavy (sorry, I dont know why I keep calling it that.. but I wont) for the squad. Get that in the open, and your problems are solved.

§Sirsolo

**Ivan_the_bad** · 08-04-2008, 10:06 AM

Originally Posted by Eavy Gunner

Lets look at it a different way, How many bags of ammo do you know that give a bag back and mysteriously have another 2 Clips in them? Basically, its the same as pulling 2 Magazines out of thin air, so they gotta rename the riflemen class "Wizard"

Lol that made me laugh, I completely agree with you 15th guys though, the ammo resupply at the moment is absolutely horrible, and at times seems useless when u need to resupply fast and are unable to do so. This definantly needs to be fixed.

The ammo resupply should just be something like: The rifleman gets 5 ammo bags, and once their given out he can not get them back, except from resupplying him self at a bunker/supplydrop. I think this is the best way as its not an infanite supply of ammo and its more realistic than whats been done so far.

**Sabre_Tooth_Tigger** · 08-04-2008, 12:01 PM

No I like scarce ammo and the effect it has on a squad. Anything big becomes something special but you really dont ever run out of standard rifle bullets so its not overly harsh on the basics

Just have every member of the squad spawn as rifle ammo and drop the ammo bag before you swap kits, so many people dont do that and the system is real lax is letting you have the benefits of both kits

If PR is going simulate a battlefront and supply lines then all this helps. Increasingly I hope that if you want large amounts of ammo you will need to actively control the area you are in,
ie. firebase and/or vehicle ammo drops

**BigGaayAl** · 08-04-2008, 01:11 PM

Originally Posted by sirsolo

From what I remember, you can get ammo from most cars... just right click.

So its EXACTLY like Charity said, ...blablabla...

No it is not.

I'm talking about when I throw my own ammobag down, with full ammo, go sit on it and it immediatly disappears.

Originally Posted by sirsolo

As for the "unavaible due to squad limitations" thats just bad squadwork...

It is not because you don't know what I'm talking about that it is bull****. I've played this game enough to know when it is a bug or when there is another problem. I don't know what exactly is the cause, but it is not because the enemy has the kit, which would be about the only logical explanation. I've had this happen when NO squadmember has ANY special kits, NOR have they lost the automatic rifleman in a previous life.

The system is severely bugged at times, I believe it could have to do with people requesting kits and leaving your squad perhaps. I don't know really. It just doesn't happen enough apparently for the devs to notice, or they would have fixed it two versions ago. It is however a constant frustration for anyone trying to get proper equipment, as a basis for attempting to use RL tactics and organisation.

I'VE READ THE MANUAL 5 TIMES!

Sorry for the caps there, but I've posted this many times, and I always get this kind of flawed response. The system is bugged period.

You have a point about the cars though I forgot about the ammo caches you can deploy.

Again sorry for the tone of my post, this is a frustration of mine and I should be bigger (perhaps also gay-er) then this. I keep hoping they will improve the kit system to be more like forgotten hope.

**Sabre_Tooth_Tigger** · 08-04-2008, 01:20 PM

Not sure I understand but all request kits are shared across all squads

Originally Posted by http://guide.realitymod.com/index.php?title=Kit_Limiting

* You can be granted a limited kit once every 3 minutes.

* If you switch squads mid-game you must wait 2 minutes before being able to access limited kits (to discourage you from joining a squad just to be able to get a kit).

* Kits that were in use and lost in combat (disappear from the ground) have a Reallocation Time and return to the request pool again after a period of time.
* Regular Infantry Kits have a 90 second Reallocation Time to return to the request pool.
* Specialized Kits have a 5 minute Reallocation Time to return to the request pool.
* It is therefore very important to pick up these important kits from fallen teammates or your team will be lacking them for a long time!

Project Reality Tip
If a limited kits falls in the hands of an enemy it will not return to the request pool until this enemy drops the kit. Do not let your important weapons fall into enemy hands!

1-8 players on the team

* Regular Infantry Kits- 1 of each kit avaliable
* Specialized Kits - No specialized kits avaliable
* Officer, Crewman, Pilot - Unlimited avaliability

9-16 players on the team

* Regular Infantry Kits - 2 of each kit avaliable
* Specialized Kits - 1 of each kit avaliable
* Officer, Crewman, Pilot - Unlimited avaliability

17-24 players on the team

* Regular Infantry Kits - 4 of each kit avaliable
* Specialized Kits - 1 of each kit avaliable
* Officer, Crewman, Pilot - Unlimited avaliability

25-32 players on the team

* Regular Infantry Kits - 5 of each kit avaliable
* Specialized Kits - 2 of each kit avaliable
* Officer, Crewman, Pilot - Unlimited avaliability

Now I think about it I do remember a bug like you mentioned but Ive not had it happen to me for ages.
Normally that message would only appear if all 5 LAT kits have been requested and/or lost in the last 90 secs or obviously if a squaddie had it allready

http://www.tacticalgamer.com/1051725-post12.html
yep

**BigGaayAl** · 08-04-2008, 06:23 PM

Looking at that info, I must say that the kit problem is probably due to the 5 kits available on the whole team. Just today I was in the mine on qinling and for about 15 minutes none of my squad could request a light AT. Perhaps some friendly had taken it or there is some other weird limit that kicks in. It still is a huge problem to me, because I see really no decent reason why my squad shouldn't be able to have a light AT at any time.

It really impedes good tactical gameplay and I don't care one bit if there is some pseudo-realistic reasoning behind it. If my SM dies with a L-AT and I call in reinforcements from the RP, I see no reason why we shouldn't be able to get one, even if the enemy has taken his kit of his dead body. If they take the kit of a dead body, it should count as one of their team (5max) instead of one of our team. Same with the H-at. They take it, then it should count for their limit. This way of counting impedes gameplay and increases smacktard behaviour.

Gah sorry for the hijacking of this thread. I wouldn't mind at all if some forum admin takes out all my posts. It is interesting to me and perhaps others, but it probably shouldn't be in this thread. I just get the feeling that the devs care only about realism in some weird take they have on it, and never actually try to run a tactically interesting squad. Dbzao and Fuzzhead's squads being the only clear exceptions to that of which I have knowledge.

People seem to be too caught up in getting horny about the new M4 or some other new skin for the same weapons we have had for so long.

**llPANCHOll** · 08-04-2008, 07:53 PM

Originally Posted by fuzzhead

v0.8 we will see ammo bag reduced further in its rearm. In v0.8, if you throw the bag down on the ground, you can "pick it back up" if you did not take anything else from it, but if someone grabs some ammo from it, and you try to pick it back up, the bag will disappear before you can get it back. We dont like the "wait wait lemme get my bag back" method of rearming, because yes its basically like a wizard pulling sht out of his ass.

This says it all..

**Charity Case** · 08-04-2008, 07:53 PM

Originally Posted by BigGaayAl

Looking at that info, I must say that the kit problem is probably due to the 5 kits available on the whole team. Just today I was in the mine on qinling and for about 15 minutes none of my squad could request a light AT. Perhaps some friendly had taken it or there is some other weird limit that kicks in.

I'm pretty sure what you are referring to is a glitch. I know I and others in my squads have received the "Unavailable due to squad restrictions" message while trying to request a kit which wasn't in the squad. I'm guessing the python code gets screwed up or something and the game thinks you already have the requested kit in your squad.

**Belhade** · 08-04-2008, 09:58 PM

Could be a convergence of events prohibiting you from getting the kit:
- 5 kits available for the team, all 5 are requested. One player gets killed and the enemy steals his kit = still in play. Someone else dies and his kit rots = kit reallocation time. Someone else standing at Main Base spamming kit request = kit back into play.
A bit convoluted and unlikely, but I'm sure this happens from time to time.

As for the ammo immediately disappearing, I think at times it will fall through a "floor" when it's on a multiple level (top of the Dam on Jabal, or top floor of a bunker in Kashan).

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