Re: Squad Leaders, or lack thereof...

**SaboSmith** · 09-30-2008, 04:07 AM

I've only been playing bf2/pr for 4-5 days now so i dont know the full extent of the SL situation but i have noticed a few very good strong SL's. I was looking for a decent online fps that was diffrent from the typical run n gun crap of cod i found pr joined a few servers and found the majority to just be cod in squads then a friend told me to go to tg server. My first game on i joined a squad lead by wreckingcrew. Im new so i suck pretty bad but he was never nasty about it, even when i was told to disarm a mine with no clue in hell how to do it half expecting it to explode in my face when i tampered with it

. He is to the point, every squad member knows there role every step of the way. He keeps it interesting, fast paced but light at the same time. As a tg member i would be proud to share a tag with a player of that quality. If you guys do decide to do some kind of SL training i think wrecking should be forced to participate :P

**BigGaayAl** · 09-30-2008, 05:23 AM

You were lucky. He is one of my favorite SL's and he is always friendly. He can really rally a whole team.

Delta*RandyShugart* · 09-30-2008, 10:38 AM

wrecking crew can def get things going, and he doesn't like to lolly gag either, plus the aussie accent helps as well especially when he's calling in an air strike or jdam.

**DiscoJedi** · 09-30-2008, 11:56 AM

This has turned into quite the post. I was initially not even sure what I could possibly add to such an encompassing discussion, but then, as I thought about it, I realized that there is a crucial point that has yet to be addressed. It goes back to the core of Skud's initial post. Skud was concerned that pub players were too frequently demanding leadership from IHS members or TG Regulars instead of providing it themselves. The aspect of this I think we have failed to address is that while IHS and Regular players provide leadership while they play, the type of squad leading they do is not very effective as a learning environment for new or pub players.

I am only newly a supporting member to TG, and was for a long time prior, a regular public player on the server. I have played in squads lead by IHS members, TG Regulars, and other public players. I have also lead squads with all of the aforementioned people therein. It strikes me that while playing with Members of the 6th, 10th, 15th, E-1st, or Irreg's is often a decidedly more tactical and fulfilling experience, I rarely learn anything about the mechanics of being a better squad member / leader while I do it.

Because IHS squads train and play together so often, they can perform at a much higher level that most Regular players and almost all pubs. The challenge as I see it, is to realize that when trying to inspire leadership, leading by example is only the start. It is one thing to see Skud or CC or Warehouse or any other IHS member run a squad and do amazing things with it. It is an entirely different thing to then, as a pub player in that squad, turn around and say "I can do that."

I believe that we all need to do as Skud has initially said and "step up" to the challenge of creating additional leadership. And this is about more than creating Squad Leader Training Courses and unlocking IHS squads. It should be the responsibility of every single TG community member to create not only a fun tactical gaming environment, but a learning environment. To inspire through explanation. To lead through one round and then say to your squad mates "Hey, why don't you try a round as SL? I'll be here to help you out."

As the age old saying goes, "Give a man a fish, he will eat for a day. Teach a man to fish, and he will eat for a lifetime."

**Katanama** · 09-30-2008, 12:27 PM

As I said earlier I don't think a TGU course is the right way to solve this. My reason is that during a TGU course you get some theory for example as a medic how to do the revive procedure, how to heal and so on which are directly applicable in a public game. If you made a squadleader course You would get a lot theory and how to split your squad. What you would not get is experience make plans of attack on the fly, changing your plans in seconds and all the other stuff you need a little experience to get good at. I think something like the mentorship program would be better suited for this since you would be able to bring your mentor into TS and have him in the squad with 4 pubs and you could ask him if you doubted your plan without the rest of the squad hearing this. If this was done you would get some experience leading while always having an experienced player to rely on for support and advice. The mentor would also point out flaws in your plan and thereby make it possible for you to change it and also learning from your flaws. At the end of a round (or more) he would be able to give some feedback on how you handled yourself as a squadleader. Point out in what areas you could improve and also tell you what you did that was good.
Some of the veteran squadleaders might learn something from this as mentors since you will also get to see and analyse how you would have reacted in the same situation. This might make the mentor see some different angles to a problem.

Delta*RandyShugart* · 09-30-2008, 12:27 PM

Originally Posted by DiscoJedi

I believe that we all need to do as Skud has initially said and "step up" to the challenge of creating additional leadership.

Well put disco, i also liked what you said in your post but i particularly liked what you said above for which i have put in quotes.

Now I think that us TG regs, whether you are a SM or Not, it really doesn't matter need to show the IHS that we can be SL's and would also like to have members of IHS in our squads.........
Step up and invite those guys into your squads, just because they are in an IHS doesn't mean you cant be there SL....remember they are just regular people just like you and me.

Now if u do this don't go all batty and start giving out redic orders and talking down to these guys because its not the right thing to do and its not mature to say the least, but don't be afraid, these members won't bite....well except portable.cougar he doesn't get that in game name for nothing.

All you have to do is click "create squad" or "create custom squad." And check out TS its free and couldn't be easier, trust me, i remember when i first got a mic, and someone recommend TS, i was like "wait talking to people on a seperate thing other than in-game voip? you have got to be sh___ing me#$*&^!!!" Well, i am a product that it can be done.

**StevieRay** · 10-03-2008, 08:56 AM

I am not sure if I fit into this convo, but a few of you know that I did a lot of SL a while back, and I learned the entire gameplay I utilize from strong SL's. Many of them were not IHS members, but as I see today, many now are... (Wick! and Big Al!...those were nice surprises)

I want to SL again, but my low playing time due to RL these days has created a very large gap with my .8 intel. I played a lot those first few days of .8, but have not been able to set aside a couple of hours now. So, short story is since I don't really know the new maps, and am still working out the new game changes, I will be your engi/rifleman/support gunner, glued to your side, and following orders. I can say that I will jump into SL if the situation requires it, even without this knowledge. No better way to learn.

VERY GOOD to see that many are concerned about this and working on it as when I was playing .756, leadership was on the low side.

I should have more time after November 5th...until then, I miss playing.

**FFLaguna** · 10-03-2008, 01:11 PM

As a squad leader, I don't find myself playing much different from how I usually do. Whenever I've had an idea that differed from what my previous SLs' plans but never spoke up, now I can implement those myself. It's a really good feeling when players stick with you the entire round and have fun playing together.

Now, whenever I've not squadleader, I feel like my abilities are hampered by not being able to place my own attack/move markers. The move marker is one of the most important tools that a squad leader has for spotting enemies. Whenever I come into contact, the first thing I do is commo-rose-T-and-select-attack-marker on the enemy's position and inform the squad.

Remember back when squad leaders hid prone in a bush as the spawn point, while their squaddies rushed forth? Or was that PoE2?

**Katanama** · 10-03-2008, 01:15 PM

Originally Posted by FFLaguna

As a squad leader, I don't find myself playing much different from how I usually do. Whenever I've had an idea that differed from what my previous SLs' plans but never spoke up, now I can implement those myself. It's a really good feeling when players stick with you the entire round and have fun playing together.

Now, whenever I've not squadleader, I feel like my abilities are hampered by not being able to place my own attack/move markers. The move marker is one of the most important tools that a squad leader has for spotting enemies. Whenever I come into contact, the first thing I do is commo-rose-T-and-select-attack-marker on the enemy's position and inform the squad.

Yeah I do the same thing. Its really annoying not to have the marker as a squadmember

**Sabre_Tooth_Tigger** · 10-03-2008, 01:45 PM

Originally Posted by FFLaguna

Remember back when squad leaders hid prone in a bush as the spawn point, while their squaddies rushed forth? Or was that PoE2?

Nope that was in pr too. Most common mistake now is bringing the rp too far forward to try and avoid walking which then can cause a very long walk from main base. I think bunkers are best for forward spawning

**FUNKED1** · 10-03-2008, 02:49 PM

I'm working on it now that I'm back on the TG server.

I have a lot of leadership experience in other tactical games and sims, and did a lot of SL and CO duty in the early vanilla days, but it's taken me a while to understand how PR strategy works. Fortunately we have so many awesome squad leaders who set a great example, so I'm starting to get it. In particular Onemanwreckingcrew and Zarfdo and Fuzzhead (among others!) have really opened my eyes.

So now I feel pretty confident leading an infantry squad, and using the unarmored vehicles. Last night I had an amazing round on Qwai with CupMonger, Stozzcheese, KarateDoug, and some other names that have slipped my mind. We did some stuff Fuzzhead showed me at the beginning at the south bridge, some stuff I learned from Combat Mission (strategy game) to cross the river under the noses of an enemy squad and then wipe them out, then some Zarfdo-fu to take Govt. Office and finally some Wreckingcrew ninja stuff to hide out in the cap radius at Pigfarm. It helped that the commander and armor squad were brilliant, but at least I feel now like I know how to push the buttons.

I still feel like a n00b with armor and air though. I don't feel the armor or air simulations are very realistic, so I don't get much pleasure from using those assets. But I am gradually picking up experience.

So what I'm going to do now is SL every other round, and further my education under experienced squad leaders when I'm not SLing.

**Portable.Cougar** · 10-03-2008, 03:49 PM

It's refreshing to read everyones posts on this topic

I'm sitting here smiling to myself every time I read about a new SL's expreince. Keep it up and soon you will be the new "it" SL.

**TheChapKid** · 10-03-2008, 04:01 PM

Yea, I put up a AAR after SLing on EJOD....

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