Re: Insurgency Baserape Rule - or Taliban =/= Insurgents

**Alex6714** · 02-01-2009, 11:13 AM

The main problem with insurgent baseraping (I agree with it but...) are 2 things:

1) SA7s that can camp outside the main wall (karbala) so you cannot even take off. This is different from unguided RPGs and the fact that air assets take not only along time to spawn but many tickets.

2) Bomb cars. On basrah this is not a problem, but on fallujah, the bombcar can get into your main before the bradleys have warmed up their cannons. And there goes the 2 bradleys that don´t respawn.

**Masterjack** · 02-01-2009, 11:14 AM

Originally Posted by d1sp0sabl3H3r0

The rule isn't going to change in the near future, so I think it is up to players to adapt and overcome. A large part of this is that the assets do cost tickets, but instead of trying to protect those assets with tactics, the players seem to want the admins to do it for them.

Yep that sums it up right there. The devs mentioned that this new version would require more co-ordination then previous versions. Stopping the insurgents from base raping is rather easy for one squad to do. If the US base gets defended often enough then people playing insurgents will stop attacking it. The people base raping are just trying to get easy kills/tickets. You just have to make them not so easy.

**thegreatnardini** · 02-01-2009, 12:59 PM

Originally Posted by johnflenaly

I don't really care either way, but like muttonchops said the realism argument has no weight, Real life armies make bases a priorty target.

In real life you aren't going to have your air-base two miles down the road from the enemies. Unfortunately the maps just aren't big enough to simulate a real battlefield, and that's why we have the no-base camping rule. Also, in real life your main base will be in the heart of your territory with a great deal of defense capabilities. Chances are any enemy forces attempting to attack it will get swiftly chewed to pieces.

Besides I think it's better that the small amount of players we have on the server focus their attention on the objectives, not blowing up stuff at the mains. You can easily waste 12 players by having a squad attacking and a squad defending the mains.

**Sabre_Tooth_Tigger** · 02-01-2009, 01:58 PM

I'd like every main base to have vulcans and every asset possible available.
So that the few that do defend have no question of superior firepower, it should not effect other flags/objectives however

With karbala a radius of 800m around the base needs to be cleared so the sa7 cannot engage before the heli has taken off. I'd say thats a reasonable requirement for teamwork and not that hard to do.
Having an apache on an insurgency map would be ridiculous without this flaw

**Portable.Cougar** · 02-01-2009, 02:05 PM

Originally Posted by Sabre_Tooth_Tigger

Having an apache on an insurgency map would be ridiculous without this flaw

Yes, 100%

**Chukk005** · 02-01-2009, 03:13 PM

regular armies try to keep their bases (such as airfields) out of artillery range....the outposts (real life, not PR firbase) they use are closer but for the most part HQs are out of range

**Berlancic** · 02-02-2009, 11:39 AM

And successfully defending your base not only keeps your assets from being destroyed, it's one less defender squad for the insurgent side, unless more than 1 squad is attacking.

So if insurgents have no rules, can they do most things that are physically against the rules ingame? Like continously driving over people, just having a car to get road kill?

Sometimes the rules for me are a bit cloudy.

**Sabre_Tooth_Tigger** · 02-02-2009, 01:33 PM

Circling for roadkills isnt allowed because its taking advantage of hit boxes, netcode and poor damage calculation in the bf2 engine (metal is bullet proof) so its not effected by them being insurgents or not, still illegal afaik

**Fighter** · 02-02-2009, 07:41 PM

I always hated this rule. I believe that the USA needs to be attacking caches and Insurgents need to be defending them. End of story. In real life you would have base def squads but you also dont only have 31 people on your team. It's more of a gameplay aspect rather than realism.

**Golgo13** · 02-05-2009, 09:46 AM

Realism, also only so many can attack main without exposing their caches too much. I assume a middle way could be found, a dome of death on maps where the coalition main base is supposedly out of reach of the insurgents/Taliban (a big one) and no dome of death on maps like Karbala.

**Wave** · 02-05-2009, 12:28 PM

Kind of off topic, but I was also looking for a clarification about US attacking Taliban/Insurgent mains on maps like Ramiel where I don't think its a Mosque, and Fallujah where I'm 99% sure its not a Mosque. Technically, the ROE's don't forbit them from attackikng it, but its still the Insurgent main.

**d1sp0sabl3H3r0** · 02-05-2009, 12:49 PM

Originally Posted by Wave

Kind of off topic, but I was also looking for a clarification about US attacking Taliban/Insurgent mains on maps like Ramiel where I don't think its a Mosque, and Fallujah where I'm 99% sure its not a Mosque. Technically, the ROE's don't forbit them from attackikng it, but its still the Insurgent main.

You used the key word: Main. Our rules regarding the mains are clearly spelled out in the rules (#5).

A main is defined as a place on the map where a team has a permanent spawn point. 99% of the time, this is also where their vehicles spawn. On Ramiel, for the insurgents, this is the "barn" in the northern portion of the map for example.

On most insurgent maps, mosques often have a permanent spawn point. If the static is a mosque or "mosque-like" but does not serve as a permanent spawn point, the ROE do not apply to that area.

Insurgents/Taliban are the only faction that can attack the enemy main.

The last flag on a map is often near the main. This flag is not considered part of the main (there isn't a permanent spawn associated with it), so enemy presence there is not illegal. However, considering the proximity to the actual main in most cases, players should tread lightly there unless that flag is actually in play.

I hope that clarifies any confusion over mains and insurgency (with some AAS sprinkled in for good measure).

**eGoatBoy** · 02-05-2009, 06:33 PM

Thanks for the clear explanation Dispo

One thing that I noticed last night on Korengal when we (the Taliban) had BluFor pushed back / pinned at their main was that some squads managed to get out...and they had relativley free movement around the map becuase our team was mostly looking at the main base. Two (additional) caches fell because of that...but it was a little late in the game by then...

As you said before, it's tough slogging for BluFor in Insurgency, but it is doable.

Cheers,

**Ghost Dog** · 02-06-2009, 03:36 AM

Originally Posted by ForGlory&Pain

I dislike the idea of RPG's shooting right into the main base proper from a mosque tower and not being able to return fire. Camping the exits with IEDs is one thing, but at least you can defend that. I would like to see it permitted for snipers to engage actively hostile targets in the mosque tower, becuase honestly if a SAM or RPG was firing out of the top and risking a multimillion dollar BH or Cobra, an accurate sniper round would probably be used, even if by local military forces. Indiscriminate or HE rounds are a different matter.

Afaik, you can return fire as soon as the insurgent shoots one rocket.

**d1sp0sabl3H3r0** · 02-06-2009, 08:43 AM

Originally Posted by Ghost Dog

Afaik, you can return fire as soon as the insurgent shoots one rocket.

This is incorrect.

Again, here are the rules regarding the mains:

5. Basecamping

Main bases: A main base is defined as a flag where the opponent has their only permanent spawn point (this includes a mosque spawn point on insurgency maps - this is a clarification of the rule).
UCB: The opponents main base which cannot be captured.

The rules regarding main bases/UCB are as follows:

Insurgents can attack enemy main at any time using whatever tactics they want as this is a real-life tactic. Remaining rules do not apply to insurgents only.
BluFor forces may not fire into a mosque area with a permanent spawn point as this mirrors real-life ROE. Camping outside a mosque spawn point for the purpose of racking up easy kills is also prohibited. (clarification added 11-23-2008)
Main flag is completely off limits to enemy soldiers unless flag is in play. This includes spec ops and sapper squads. If the main is neutral, the attacking force does not have to withdraw and may stay to defend the flag.
Units firing out of the main onto enemy forces may receive return fire, otherwise you are not to fire into the enemy main base to spawn kill.
Destroying/sabotaging vehicles inside the main is prohibited. This includes but is not limited to placing mines or C4 onto vehicles or near them to prevent them from being used or destroying them.
Access directly out of the main may not be blocked or impeded by mines, c4, or other means.
Bridges and other means of departing the area around the main may be attacked and is not considered base camping.
Aircraft returning to their main airfield may be engaged until they've landed.

The enemy command post (CP) may not be destroyed any more, so there is no reason to attack the enemy main or attempt to sabotage the CP.

I've put into bold the important parts. First, a mosque with a permanent spawn is considered a main. Secondly, Coalition forces (US, Brit) may never fire into a mosque. Ever. Even if they are taking fire from the mosque, they may not fire into it. We've adopted this rule to mirror real-life ROE that prevents fire into holy places, even if fire is being taken from a mosque.

Thread Tools

Display