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02-13-2009, 01:41 PM #16
- Join Date
- Apr 2007
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- Norway
- Age
- 35
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- 5,666
Re: Stacking Teams. Revived in .85
Don't take the comments here personally guys, it's just that this has been discussed before. Just hack loose on the "Guide to teamstacking" thread if you dare.
The problem is simple. Regulars seek teamwork and PR rounds being long people teamswitch to get that with other regulars. Some because of real life time issues, some because they are lazy and other reasons. As time progresses the teams may become unbalanced, but usually it's countered by other regulars joining the other team or people from the same team leaving. But sometimes not. That's how it is. It's difficult to just "fix". It has to do with real life time and the search for fun gaming. It's nothing concious, it just happens.
In a scrim this is balanced, but day to day play on the server is difficult because of the reasons mentioned.
It's allowed to ask for people to switch teams in TS or sometimes regulars when they have time will jump on the other team to try to educate and lead by example. But not always because of again different reasons.
Regulars strive to work on these things always, but it's difficult because of time, patience and other reasons like i mentioned.












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02-13-2009, 01:46 PM #17
Re: Stacking Teams. Revived in .85
The team that usually complains about teamstacking does not have a commander and does not use teamspeak, which tg is kind enough to provide.
What it does have is people taking the sniper kit on the wrong map and generally being annoyed by requests of any kind coming from the team and of course being immune to good advise and hints especially if it comes from the CO should the team have one in the first place.
Many of the things you need to do in PR to win do not require skills. Being able to quickly shoot an enemy requires skills and reflexes which can be improved by training but is also subject to genetics.
Being a teamplayer on the other hand is not as hard, you just need to be considerate enough to be bothered to be a teamplayer. If you go off with your squad rushing on your own instead of supporting other squads, do not use teamspeak to coordinate or are not avaiable for any needs your team might have, not only shouldnt that person not complain about teamstacking, I can understand when considerate players who can be bothered prefer to play on the other team instead with cant be arsed, can I have snip0r players.
This goes not against people who use the sniper kit correctly and effectively after having aquired some experience in training.
Bottom line is, if you do all the things that are not limited by genetics and your team still loses all the time you have a point, if you lose because your team isnt considerate enough to play as a team, tough luck and seen as how the winning team has over 10 people in teamspeak and the losing team like 2 the problem isnt skill and responsive players switching to the losing side will not be able to do what they did on the other team, if they do not have enough responsive players to cooperate with.
Also it isnt about being a regular or not. You can be a considerate player if you are not a regular. I came across people who were not regulars who were great teamplayers and I cooperated well with people on servers iam not a regular on. It is all about if you can be bothered or not.
I hope people being regularly crushed by a coordinated team will be motivated to either step up their teamwork and maybe not snipe as much as they like, or switch to a game that puts less emphasis on teamwork. I load up vanilla BF2 myself sometimes if I want 20 min of trigger happy mayhem, although usually I find better things to do when bored.
Even if you yourself are not guilty of those shortcomings, you should complain about the lack of teamplay on the losing team instead of complaining about players who seek out to play with players they can rely on.
Congrats for your commanding on Ramiel. I thought we would never get those 2 caches in the city, my squad did not even get close. And the IHS hogging the blackhawk did not help either
(as you see playing with IHS is not a guarantee it will always be done by the books).
But after the convoy was organized it cut through there like nothing.Last edited by Golgo13; 02-13-2009 at 02:10 PM.


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02-13-2009, 01:50 PM #18
Re: Stacking Teams. Revived in .85
No one is going to see eye to eye on this "problem".
So, let's cut out the crap.
Exakter and Alpha, you two are now the designated "champions" of the common man.
As the champions, I'm tasking you with this assignment:
Please post what your solution is to this problem. Don't just come here to post your complaints and how you've been a tireless champion of a cause, post a solution.
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02-13-2009, 01:54 PM #19
Re: Stacking Teams. Revived in .85
Ya, E you do good work. But it takes more than one squad when faced with the fury that can be TG, which based on your post I'm sure you realize.
It's my opinion that the ultimate solution would require everyone to realize that this does happen, it's not intentional.... and that somewhat close matches are much more fun than one-sided blowouts. That would then (hopefully) lead to people switching sides when they see one team needs some more experienced players.
Not only would this make for more interesting games, but I think it would foster the growth of the TG community as a whole by getting some noob(ish) players into squads with experienced members... thus creating a learning environment instead of a constant respawnfest.
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02-13-2009, 01:55 PM #20
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02-13-2009, 02:03 PM #21
Re: Stacking Teams. Revived in .85
@Alpha
I don't see you around, maybe your invite got lost in the post...
Way to be proactive dude. After your last rant about this, you were given advice on how to help, and just out of curiosity, what did you do? Do you jump in TS more? Lead as SL? CO? Help new guys to TG to learn the ropes, get them on TS? Coming on here and crying is one thing, we can all do that, but what have you done since to help? You really don't contribute much in the forums, in fact, you mainly just post in complaint threads, like the APC one, or the late night quality to name a few recent ones. So maybe I am missing your positive contribution in-game then? Elaborate for me please, so I can understand your issue? And yeah, answers people? Lets see then?
Edited: So, you think us recognising there is an issue will fix it? I don't think there is, there are winners and losers in life, some people are better than you. So, you work harder, get better, give them competition, don't moan. And if we all end up teamswitching, then people will use that as an excuse to keep going, to get assets every round and to stay as US, and it will be a confusing mess. Any other ideas?










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02-13-2009, 02:16 PM #22
Re: Stacking Teams. Revived in .85
By definition, a rant is:
To speak or write in a angry or violent manner; rave.
If what I said came across as angry or violent, I apologize. That's the frustration bleeding through.
And yes, I do think that recognizing there is a problem is the first step in the solution. But since we can't get past that step, my solution won't be able to solve this problem.
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02-13-2009, 02:16 PM #23
Re: Stacking Teams. Revived in .85
Iam not a champion of that problem, but my solution would be to make use of teamspeak and crush an unorganised team untill the players either leave for another server and finally for another game (because the same thing is gonna happen to cant be arsed players on other servers), or untill they load up TS and step up their teamwork, because mengling dedicated players with not so dedicated players so 2 teams of which both work badly toegether can play against each other is not what I want to see.
If I should be on the team that is disorganized I will try and cooperate with the other players, but if they keep doing their own thing not showing any interest in playing with me I will either quit in frustration or teamswitch to see if the players on the other team aknowledge my presence. Oftentimes taking the initiative and seeing that your team almost won instead of getting beaten badly because you took command this round is satisfactory.

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02-13-2009, 02:18 PM #24
Re: Stacking Teams. Revived in .85
I have not been involved in these discussions before as i have no strong opinions on the issue, however i have found a solutuion, which is hopefully going to be discussed by the admins and might be implemented in the future pending an admin desicion.
It is simply to enable the BF2CC option to randomize the teams at the end of each round, rather than swapping them, this would essentially eliminate the problems as well as that of people switching several rounds before a match to be on a certain team.
As i have psoted in the admin forums i would like to get the opinion of the TG Comunnity about this so please post any concerns or ideas and i will try to get some constructive responses going when i get back next sunday.
Ollie
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02-13-2009, 02:23 PM #25
Re: Stacking Teams. Revived in .85
Maybe we could just keep starting threads until the thing just solves itself.
KILL IT DEAD!!!
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02-13-2009, 02:27 PM #26
Re: Stacking Teams. Revived in .85
And how is this going to work, exactly?
As I've mentioned previously in the thread, we (the admins) have tried time and again to balance the teams when things get out of whack by moving people. What happens? They switch back immediately. So, as you can see, admin action is limited at best in it's effectiveness, and as I've already stated, none of the admins should be expected to give up their free time to do this type of duty all day/night long.
BTW - people do switch sides to help. You know what happens then? Other players switch over, too. Of course, players that were on the losing team get switched over to the previously victorious team thanks to auto-balance, and nothing has changed but the uniforms.
No one like to win easily round after round. Nothing could be more boring than that.
When we say it's just a fact of life, and that we (admins, players, you name it) can't guarantee that every round ends 10-0, then we get blamed for ignoring or denying that there is a problem. Maybe there is a problem, but the fact is that nothing is fair - EVER. "Stacked" teams lose - more often than you may be aware of.
Anyway.
My solution: I'll second Alpha, but I'm going to add more, because gosh darn it, I want people to become accountable for themselves:
- Don't quit when things get tough.
- Try to lead.
- Try to coordinate squads, even if it's in team chat prior to the start of the round.
- Encourage other players to get on teamspeak.
- Get a CO and use the position the way it is supposed to be by COMMANDING your team!
- Don't complain in global chat, but instead maybe ask some people to switch over to help next round. The message is the same, but the delivery is what counts.
Anyone have anything else they'd like to add to this list?
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02-13-2009, 02:27 PM #27
Re: Stacking Teams. Revived in .85
So considerate players are forced to play with players who are not on teamspeak, take kits when they shouldnt or do not follow orders ? I do not like. The fun in this game for me is about GOOD teamplay. If both teams are disorganized and my team wins in this mess it was still a messy game I did not enjoy. Likewise if my team loses, but did everything right, I still had fun.
I was CO on Mestia with insurgents. The team played aright followed orders but we kept losing trucks because the road was ambushed and I did not send out a squad to clear out the ambushers. We lost 14-0 to a team that played well, but I was not overly sad about it, because it was a good game. Had I won with a team that does random things against a team doing random things I would have not had fun.

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02-13-2009, 02:28 PM #28
Re: Stacking Teams. Revived in .85
@Alpha, I understand your frustration with this issue, a lot of people are. I think the solution is TS. Either get organised or die. Thats it. What else is there?
Ollie, I understand your idea mate, but if I am only going to get 1 hours play in tonight, I want to be damned sure it is with my mates in their squad, and not some random who I have never played with before. They may be just as good, or better, but the point of IHS's are to play together with your friends. So randomising the teams could be hard. And then there is the TS issue with channels and players who will be in the wrong one, or guys who can't alt-tab out. Also, people will find a way to complain about it, because they ever got to be US for 3 rounds and didn't get the chopperz.










Contact an Admin | Nominate your teammates for a ribbon | TG Primer | Kicked? Banned? READ THIS FIRST! | Server Rules and SOP's
Saddam ✓ Osama ✓ Gaddafi ✓ Justin Bieber ☐ Rebecca Black ☐
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02-13-2009, 02:34 PM #29
Re: Stacking Teams. Revived in .85
You can set hotkeys on TS so you do not have to alt and tab out of the game. Just load up TS and get into PR Public. from there Shift + anykey to make your way to team1coor team2coor team1leadership etc.
Or do What I do, if I squadlead and somebody is on teamspeak make him your radio guy. Make him look through the PR channels and in house channels for the guy that is flying CAS
. It adds to realism too.


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02-13-2009, 02:36 PM #30
Re: Stacking Teams. Revived in .85
Don't get me wrong, admin intervention isn't part of my solution. Except maybe for moral support

On a side not, the above about randomizing teams is extreme, more overhead for the server to handle, and another script that could go haywire. It also makes it harder for people who want to play on the same teams to do so. I would hope that we as a community could sort this out ourselves, but apparently that's not possible.
I'm not sure I want a solution to this issue so much that I would be willing to vote for inconveniencing the majority of regulars on TG as much as randomization would probably do, but maybe that's the popular vote.
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