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Discussion: Project Reality / PR:BF2 - Lessons in .85: Things to Pack - I made a big-ass post in this thread last night but I chose to delete
  1. #61

    KevlarBR's Avatar

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    Re: Lessons in .85: Things to Pack

    I made a big-ass post in this thread last night but I chose to delete it instead. It's pointless... What I'm reading here is a lot of lack of teamplay ideas, even some maturity from a lot of players.

    K/D ratio? Let me die and revive me after? Play to win at all costs, no matter what? Am I missing something, or is this sounding a lot like Vanilla??? When did people give up playing for fun, teamwork, etc? When winning become a problem? That's what PR is all about for me and will be no matter what changes the DEVs make to it.

    Personally, I'm done with it. See you on server.
    |TG-69th|Kevlar



    "Oh I know I don't think I see what I see what I'm thinking."

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  3. #62

    uk-warrior's Avatar

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    Re: Lessons in .85: Things to Pack

    Quote Originally Posted by SuperCobra View Post
    I think a simple goodbye, we do not wish to play Project Reality anymore because it does not appeal to our game style would have sufficed. The fact that you spent what seems to have been a decent amount of time to write a "Guide" in which you proceeded bash the mod was completely out of line and I believe should be followed up by an apology. Show some Respect.
    I second this....I support this community for many reasons....One being I love the PR MOD....and the way it is played.....I think the Dev's do a great job....and I salute them <S>

    I am also aware that everybody is entitled to their opinion....if the poster had mentioned some resolves, solutions for his distaste towards this release....It would have been a worthwhile thread....instead this in my eyes is just another rant.

    Also it's worth a mention to say....PR DEVS....are Awesome....just like us all....we are always learning.....give then the respect they deserve.

    Finally RESPECT is earned, not given freely.

    Respectfully Warrior
    "Volatilis Quod Mactabilis"



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  5. #63

    Pwn3ge's Avatar

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    Re: Lessons in .85: Things to Pack

    I'm not trying to offend anyone. I find that some people like to have the FREE mod perfectly tailored to their needs - being so selfish is ridiculous. Some people play the game and love .85, think it's the greatest release of all time. Some say .8 may have even been the WORST release yet. I think someone may just have a little sand in their diaper.
    I'm sure you can find plenty of people that think .85 is the best thing to come out for PR yet.
    I'm not telling you to GTFO my internets, but i think you should show atleast some logical arguments as to why you don't enjoy the game and communicate it to the devs.

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  7. #64

    mp40x's Avatar

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    Re: Lessons in .85: Things to Pack

    [media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aMfr2CgIPhg[/media]


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  9. #65


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    Re: Lessons in .85: Things to Pack

    Deleted-Taken to private messaging.
    Last edited by Fighter; 02-18-2009 at 08:35 PM.

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  11. #66


    d1sp0sabl3H3r0's Avatar

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    Re: Lessons in .85: Things to Pack

    If this is going to continue to be a flame the OP thread, then I guess it's time to shut it down.

    It disappoints me to no end that people can't even have a civil conversation on such a non-controversial topic. It's not like he attacked anyone personally. He stated - creatively - what his opinion on some of his perceived shortcommings of the current release were. Agree? Disagree? Fine, post it in a civil manner that represents yourself as what TG stands for, which is "The premier community of mature gamers." A majority of the responses are less-than-mature, and quite frankly embarrassing and childish.

    BTW - this is the second time I've posted this type of message, which is even more frustrating because I feel like I need to beat people over the head with the message.

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  13. #67

    uk-warrior's Avatar

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    Re: Lessons in .85: Things to Pack

    d1sp0sabl3

    Copy paste it next time.
    "Volatilis Quod Mactabilis"



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  15. #68


    Delta*RandyShugart*'s Avatar

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    Re: Lessons in .85: Things to Pack

    If the original post was supposed to be sarcastic i apologize for missing it.

    I have learned from my past experiences in the famous sandbox section of the TG forums (my only suggestion is to look and not reply, it can act like the movie "event horizon" which was horrible, but once you post, she won't let you leave) that you must at the end of a posting, or at the beginning type that this is going to be sarcastic, or it will not be read with sarcasm in mind.

    If the post was to be intended to be looked at sarcastically, I will take another glance at it, and I hope to see you TF21 guys on more, you are a great bunch of people to squad up or play as a team with.
    Randy = Ace ! - Warlab






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  17. #69
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    Re: Lessons in .85: Things to Pack

    My thoughts are along the lines of Kevlar, I too had a huge post reply then thought.. whats the point. Look, I love PR and there isn't much that is going to change that. Before I discovered PR there was vanilla and some mods that were ok. As long as were enjoying the game on hour nights and days off that's a plus. If you aren't having fun the you need to move on and spare your sanity. The devs are owed a HUGE debt of gratitude for what they have given us.. for free!

    DDS

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  19. #70

    Belhade's Avatar

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    Re: Lessons in .85: Things to Pack

    I just think the sentiments laid out in the OP would have been better first conveyed to the Devs then brought upon the players.
    |TG-6th|Belhade
    "I am actually looking forward to watching Jon and Kate plus 8." - Dirtboy





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  21. #71

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    Re: Lessons in .85: Things to Pack

    Sorry 'bout all those headshots.

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  23. #72

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    Re: Lessons in .85: Things to Pack

    ...and history repeats itself. I have played PR from 0.1 all the way up to the 0.6 releases, then took a break only to come back to 0.85. What I have seen with 0.85 is an evolution of PR but it instantly felt like PR to me.

    The history I speak of is that every release people balk at some new feature, some new setting or lament some deletion of features. Without fail. I think the problem is the name of the mod, if they had called it Project Approximated Reality or Project Butter on Toast the criticisms would be cut in half. The whole "reality" thing just screws with peoples heads to much. Though Project Butter on Toast would open up the whole salted vs. non-salted butter argument, one we can all agree would be much worse! <----Note the required sarcasim !

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  25. #73

    imnotacanadian's Avatar

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    Re: Lessons in .85: Things to Pack

    Quote Originally Posted by Long Bow View Post
    Though Project Butter on Toast would open up the whole salted vs. non-salted butter argument, one we can all agree would be much worse! <----Note the required sarcasim !
    What? That's the stupidest, most ridiculous thing I have ever hear anybody older than eight say in my entire life. If you don't like toast, then go without it for the rest of your life. Leave toast alone if you don't like it, okay?



    Oh wait... there was sarcasm in your post. My bad




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  27. #74


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    Re: Lessons in .85: Things to Pack

    I love how not one single TF21 member has tried to respond to my post. No doubt there over at their own forums where they can bash what they call an "Arcade style release" without anyone speaking to the contrary.

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  29. #75


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    Re: Lessons in .85: Things to Pack

    On the contrary, bashing is not our style. It's too easy. Instead, TF21 took a more ambitious approach by directly involving ourselves into PR as military advisers, testers, coders, and lead developers in an effort to make it better. We created things like the Jdam, turret stabilization, and others. But over the past two years, hundreds of hours of coding, thousands of hours of playing, and countless hours of discussing game ideology with other devs in teamspeak, three things have become abundantly clear to the point that even in our own forums, there simply isn't anything more to say about the mod we wanted to love so much.

    1. PR has no leadership.
    When Rhino took over as operations lead, it was in title only. His technical mapping skills were excellent, but his understanding of game strategy was non-existent and his ability to manage people was even worse. The net result was no clear vision of what PR should be, poor development schedules and worst of all, developers were left to make mod decisions on their own as they saw fit, regardless if it harmonized with anything else. The mish-mash would be jammed into test builds and eventually released to the public with little or no thought to the overall gameflow, strategy, purpose and/or the resulting exploits.

    6-man medic squads? We recently played that way to demonstrate its absurdity after we repeatedly warned other developers this would be exploited. These and other concerns fell on deaf ears. Nobody cared about the overall picture because there was no leader to do it; every dev is just doing their own thing. Forest through the trees. Over time, we left the development team because it's worthless to bang our heads against the wall pointing out common sense to devs who have none. So, "bashing" without speaking to anyone about the contrary? We've been bashing our heads against the wall for years. Nobody listened. The OP offered a satirical commentary with a side order of truth. If that's "bashing", I think we've earned it.

    2. The BF2 engine will never allow realistic combat weapons to coexist with a realistic combat experience.
    At the heart of this discussion, there are two types of players. Those who want realistic weapons, and those who want a realistic combat experience. Hardcoded aspects in the BF2 engine prevent both of these occurring simultaneously. You can't copy and paste wiki military stats into PR deviation then expect the gameplay to be anywhere close to real. Why? Because BF2 solders have no mass. They can run, jump, dive, and turn without penalty; just a 1/10th movement of your mouse simulates 220 pounds of solder and his gear.

    PR.8 was a radical experiment in using deviation to simulate mass and thus change player behavior; an attempt to sacrifice realistic weapons for realistic combat. While it was successful in that regard, it was released while still in development which shattered any hopes from it being perfected. PR.85 stepped away from that approach, returning to a more run'n gun feel. Combined with a myriad of vehicles, overflowing ammo, and overpowered aircraft, this latest version of PR feels like the BF1942 Desert Combat Mod recreated for BF2. Worse yet, even if it were possible to do both, to have realistic weapons and realistic combat, people wouldn't want it. That brings us to the last point.

    3. Creating a realism mod from the instant-gratification playerbase of BF2 is an effort in futility.
    The vast majority of the public players, including a vast majority of the devs, don't seem to be interested in creating a realistic combat experience as the title "Project Reality" would imply, unless of course, you want to make PR only somewhat more realistic than BF2 without actually being realistic. In that case, PR is perfect. Otherwise, players who want something deeper, more intense, and more realistic will have to look elsewhere. Unfortunately, there isn't anything else. Yet. Some of us are looking forward to Operation Flashpoint 2 that despite its fancy graphics, is advertising itself as a brutally realistic combat experience. We figure, why push PR into a realistic direction when that's where OFP2 will start.
    Long story short, TF21 doesn't hate PR, the players, or the devs. We just disagree with its direction (or lack of direction) and are somewhat frustrated by many things that happened (or more accurately, didn't happen) behind closed doors. Personally, there are a few people I'll miss working with, and Jaymz, you're one of them. I may not like your new deviation (and hey, nobody knows more about receiving deviation criticism than I do), but you're a good human being. Hopefully we'll see ya in OFP2.

    Semper Fi

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