Re: It’s time to start enforcing the rules on TG tagged players.

**MEFBRAVO** · 05-26-2009, 10:23 PM

[QUOTE=TheSkudDestroyer;1278870]Why are there compromises?

Why is there such a grey area in any of this? Because we want to make friends with everyone? If someone refuses to play by the rules or the primer, why are we interested in keeping their likes around?

Less butthurt, more ban hammer.

Bump for this. Well put Skud.

Remember, it's lonely at the top. No matter what that top is. There are several great severs out there. However, like the founding of America, America didn't become great by being more like England and Europe, America became great because we brought indivduals together who all brought their strengths and flaws together for a common purpose. This is what makes TG such an unbelievable community. I have yet to see anywhere else that pubbies, groupies, IHS, and regulars can come together for quality and teamwork gaming on a level this high. If there was a better place, then we'd be there. Clans are clans, tourneys are tourneys, but TG is something special.

Check the egos at the door and come on in and CONTRIBUTE. Don't be an armchair quarterback in the forums. stand up and contribute to the betterment of TG, and that usually means work. The admins and supporting members don't get paid. Heck, we pay to be here. Get involved with positive production not just criticism.

Back to the America concept. Everyone is welcome here as long as you abide by the rules, which are fair. Remember just like America, if you don't like it here, there's a whole world to go play in, so gooooooo.

****note*****not flaming any other country, just thought the analogy made sense.and before you flame, please read about the founding of America before you pop off.

I love my Euro brethren.

"For he today that sheds his blood with me shall be my brother tomorrow"

Mef

**fullkontact** · 05-28-2009, 06:39 AM

Playing Kozelsk yesterday, two things happened....

1) A TG XV player soloed a russian APC into a HOT zone through the enemy lines to get to a tank, then abandonned the APC in the field to secure the tank and RTB with it the APC was then picked up about 5 mins later by another squad.
He was questioned about his actions by a player with a single question, from another clan who is often seen on TG. to which the response was "God sake STFU!" great attitude!

2) A TG (on-IHS) player came to the server, all other squads were full or locked, so he made his own. Drove an APC solo to the front lines, hopped on the cannon. When I questioned him about it it went like this.

me: "[TG] ******* Why are you soloing an APC, it's a bannable offence"
him after a few minutes "My driver disconnected, I'm stuck."
**now he never had a driver and was the only person in the squad as I watched from when he left main as I was just next to it.
me: "None the less if you're now solo in the field RTB the APC back to main until your driver comes back."

Which was ignored and he continued to sit there for the rest of the round shooting enemies with his cannon, I have screenshots of the offending person on my Xfire (thank you Xfire for your scrolllck+s)

All I can say is great way to set an example guys, you both know who you are.

**Bullseye2550** · 05-28-2009, 08:45 AM

Originally Posted by fullkontact

Playing Kozelsk yesterday, two things happened....

1) A TG XV player soloed a russian APC into a HOT zone through the enemy lines to get to a tank, then abandonned the APC in the field to secure the tank and RTB with it the APC was then picked up about 5 mins later by another squad.
He was questioned about his actions by a player with a single question, from another clan who is often seen on TG. to which the response was "God sake STFU!" great attitude!

that was me:

to make things clear:

the tank was stucked, first i tried to get it free with a truck (btw. i was not the gunner or driver for the tank, i was following the tank with a truck, if he needs repairs). Then Sandiford as sqleader ctd, only the gunner (forgot his name) were left. the truck blew with me then.
At main was nothing other then an apc, so i got the apc, drived to the tank, got him free. i was willing to bring back the tank and the apc, but the apc blew up too. so then we were going back to main with the tank.
i wanted to not lose the tank, with that it had sucess. i wanted never ever to run the apc into enemys cause i wanted to get an apc. i only needed that apc to get that tank free. 1 APC traded to a stucked and not usable tank that also needs to be blown up is not that bad. I was in hurry, i had not the time to type out what i want to do, so i typed in short letters NOT "God sake STFU!", i typed "please shut up", that was my fault, and that i wanted to help my team.

Next time use the !report function and the admins will handle it.

I learned my lesson, next time i will not try to help my team when there is a little reason that i could break a rule, whatever happens.

NOW ban me, do whatever you want and you will never ever have me as commander, logistic and whatever is helping the team. After the ban i will only play as a squadmember, following my squadleaders orders or search for another server.

Thats it.

and fighter: i dont like you, but what i hate is your smacktalk when it happens that you shoot something down on global chat.

**Taip3n** · 05-28-2009, 08:56 AM

Originally Posted by Fighter

That is the most degrading thing about |TG| and I see it all the time. They both should be perm banned.

This is not a witch hunt

Or it goes against the very nature of what carrying a TG tag means, and so by proxy you become what you speak against.

There are no paradoxes in thinking community spiritedness and for the other person. People are people and you should look at people with humility and a holistic attitude, with insight into your own actions at every step, to change away from a selfish person. Perhaps ‘more compassion and less hate’, to plagiarise a saying, is in order.

The Admins do an outstanding job at having such a balanced outlook. As TG wearers we also represent this. It is good to bring this miserly attitude to the front of our minds in order to stop it but this is no witch hunt.

<NB: Added this last for clarity. This is not at you Fighter. I use 'you' in the plural context, meaning 'us', I am just using the comment as an example of what it means to wear the TG tag, and so a comment on the malaise in question and the reason for this thread>

**MEFBRAVO** · 05-28-2009, 09:08 AM

Ladies and Gentleman,

We are essentially children in a playground with mom and dad watching over us. Remember when your parents would tell you, "trust us, we'll handle it"? Well that's pretty much the mantra here and it's the way it's designed to be.

Long story short, we have tools to report people, and admins to enforce the infraction. Have confidence that there are proper tools for you to report infractions. And have confidence that the reports are being investigated and dealt with.

Mef

**snooggums** · 05-28-2009, 09:17 AM

Originally Posted by Bullseye2550

that was me:

to make things clear:

the tank was stucked, first i tried to get it free with a truck (btw. i was not the gunner or driver for the tank, i was following the tank with a truck, if he needs repairs). Then Sandiford as sqleader ctd, only the gunner (forgot his name) were left. the truck blew with me then.
At main was nothing other then an apc, so i got the apc, drived to the tank, got him free. i was willing to bring back the tank and the apc, but the apc blew up too. so then we were going back to main with the tank.
i wanted to not lose the tank, with that it had sucess. i wanted never ever to run the apc into enemys cause i wanted to get an apc. i only needed that apc to get that tank free. 1 APC traded to a stucked and not usable tank that also needs to be blown up is not that bad. I was in hurry, i had not the time to type out what i want to do, so i typed in short letters NOT "God sake STFU!", i typed "please shut up", that was my fault, and that i wanted to help my team.

Next time use the !report function and the admins will handle it.

I learned my lesson, next time i will not try to help my team when there is a little reason that i could break a rule, whatever happens.

NOW ban me, do whatever you want and you will never ever have me as commander, logistic and whatever is helping the team. After the ban i will only play as a squadmember, following my squadleaders orders or search for another server.

Thats it.

and fighter: i dont like you, but what i hate is your smacktalk when it happens that you shoot something down on global chat.

Instead of breaking a rule to help out your team you should have left the APC at main and found a way to accomplish what you wanted to do within the rules. Instead you broke the rules and then were rude to someone who pointed it out. What a perfect example of what this thread is about.

**d1sp0sabl3H3r0** · 05-28-2009, 09:24 AM

Ok, I guess I need to step in here and play Mr. Admin/Moderator.

First thing first: If there ever was a stand-up person on our server that was truly selfless and only interested in team first, me last, it is Bullseye. If half the people posting in this thread demanding action against other players could be half the player Bullseye is then TG would be the Utopia of online gaming. Instead, I see hypocrites and two-faced players trying to form a virtual lynch mob.

Now, I want the flame posts to stop. We're not calling out any players here by name any more. If someone has a problem with a specific player, there are proper channels to do this in. This forum is absolutely not one of them. Stop or the thread will be locked.

Lastly, it seems as though the community has reached it's boiling point again on an issue, only this time, for once, it's not teamstacking. I guess the only good response is that maybe everyone should take a good look in the mirror and decide if they are really in the right community for them. Do you really believe in what the primer says, or do you just pay lip-service to it? Do you wear TG tags (either plain or IHS) because you really believe in what they stand for, or are they your "get out of jail free" card?

Seriously, it's time to either put up or shut up. We see the same behavior from the same players all the time. Same people, same assets. Same people, same public comments. Same people, same constant complaining on the server and disrupting game play. Personally, I'm sick of it and so are all of the other admins. In fact, we're so sick of it that some pretty serious house cleaning is going to start happening very, very soon.

So it's high time that a lot of people start cleaning up their act, because your day of reckoning is fast approaching and I don't know if there will be a second chance on this one.

**Jeepo** · 05-28-2009, 09:55 AM

Agree with Disposable on this one, the sheer two faced-ness and hyprocacy being displayed here makes my blood boil. For a start, Bullseye is one of the very best players I have ever had the pleasure of gaming with at TG, he is always working away doing the crap jobs so we can have fun. I find it disgusting, and yes that is a strong word, so I will repeat it, disgusting that some of you are riding his case like this, surely we are all here to moan about keeping to the rules, so when did publically flaming a guy appear in the primer? For shame. Bullseye is a please to play with, and welcome in any squad I am in, which by the way is not something some of the people in this thread are....Sure he broke the rules but use the official reporting guidelines, and guess what, he done the team good, like he always does. Think guys, use your heads here. Think yourselves lucky that Dispo stepped in to prevent it, because if you guys wanted a flame, I could rip a few of you too pieces, especially considering some of the appaling track records some of you have, both IHS members and not. Again, for shame. That is the bitter Irony that leaves me angry, the fact that it is the same trouble makers who moan here, but in game are the hassle, and who drop TG's name through the dirt on the forum, in server, and if what I hear is correct, on other servers too....Bring on the clean up, I will get a shovel....

**Sandiford** · 05-28-2009, 10:15 AM

Originally Posted by snooggums

Instead of breaking a rule to help out your team you should have left the APC at main and found a way to accomplish what you wanted to do within the rules. Instead you broke the rules and then were rude to someone who pointed it out. What a perfect example of what this thread is about.

This illustrates the real problem IMO, rules #1, teamwork #2

It's horrible that people are criticizing Bullseye for doing his best to help the team. he saved that tank so that we could continue using it, as soon as he got back to main, he got back into his logi truck to continue supporting us. If everyone was like Bullseye and put their team first, we wouldn't need rules like no one manning.

The players that harm the server most are the selfish ones. Players are allowed to take HATs into the city on basrah, waste assets, lone wolf and doing anything to harm their team if they do not break a specific rule.

**fullkontact** · 05-28-2009, 10:23 AM

My post was not meant to cause harm toward Bullseye but rather to identify the point that the rules clearly state "Do not 1 man assets"

it does not say "You may not 1 man assets.. unless you're driving into enemy teretory to try and rescue something else."

Now Bullseye I know is a good player, but it was more his response he made to the player who questioned what he was doing that made me report him. Anybody does anything wrong they will be reported by me regardless, even if they're admin. No matter the reason in this case rescuing a tank I would still say it was too risky and not realistic to risk one asset for the possible chance to save another especially in enemy controlled flags

Delta*RandyShugart* · 05-28-2009, 10:25 AM

If only there was a way to report players who are hindering teamplay? Hmmmmm.

Let's keep the flame out, and maybe figure out some helpful ways to resolve this situation.

**Sandiford** · 05-28-2009, 10:35 AM

That's fair enough FK, he could have been more polite, though I'm pretty sure he apologised afterwards.

**d1sp0sabl3H3r0** · 05-28-2009, 10:52 AM

I spoke with Bullseye about this incident on x-fire and he vehemently denies using the language he is accused of using. I could pull the the chat logs when they're released, but I don't see the point and what would be the point, anyway? To issue a ban on him for swearing?

This has been said before and apparently it bears repeating: Communication between players is the best way of avoiding these type of things. Perhaps asking Bullseye what is going on without taking on an accusatory tone would have gotten a better response?

Let's also consider this: Was he taking an apc to one-man it to farm kills? Absolutely not. Is this then a clear violation of the rules? I would say it is a judgment call for the admins to make, and I would probably say not in this case. Why? He wasn't taking the apc off to a corner of the map as personal transport to abandon it and go climb into a tree stand to snipe. He wasn't taking the apc to some super secret ambush spot to rape enemy logistic trucks and jeeps as they drove by. He was essentially using the apc as a tow-truck to get an asset worth 10 tickets and on a 20 minute timer out of a ditch so it could continue to be used by his team.

Let me give another example of one-manning an asset. It was EJOD 64, we were MEC, and we were up against a team full of TG-tagged players. My team had just had 2 butt-whippings in a row, and things didn't look any better for this round, either. The round started and I'll be darned if there wasn't a tank squad formed instantly, but to my surprise there were no apc squads and no one was taking one. That left about 5 infantry squads to walk from MEC main to EJOD city. We were going to lose this round in about 5 minutes! So, I elected to get a crewman kit and load my squad into the BTR and drove them into the city to establish a position and try to keep the US team from capping. Yes, I was one-manning an asset! I then turned around and picked up another full squad still walking from MEC main that were about half way from the main to N. Desert. I took them into the city, then turned around and did the same thing with a 3rd full squad. All this time I was one-manning the apc. After the 3rd trip into town I ordered one of my squad members to get a crewman and man the gun. I started the round with no intention of running an apc but the situation on the team dictated that I must, so I did. We were then destroyed by a H-AT or the TOW, not sure which, and it doesn't matter.

I'm not sure what everyone's opinion of this little adventure is, but I would have to say that in this case, one-manning would be acceptable (and not because I was the one doing it). The asset was being used as it was intended, to ferry troops back and forth. Once it became clear that I would have to change the role of the apc from transport to offense/defense, I took on the additional crewman to properly man the asset.

So, if you all think Bullseye should get banned for his actions (permanently, as some have suggested), then I guess I need to go, too.

Communicate with the other players and find their intent.
Report issues to the admins as necessary and provide evidence where required, then move on.
Leave the admining to the admins.

[EDIT]

I wanted to post the rules, since people are so keen on quoting them. Perhaps everyone needs to review them again:

1. Strive for realism

Tactical Gamer promotes playing the game in as realistic manner as possible, with players utilizing military tactics to the best of their ability. The game should be played with the emphasis on teamwork and tactics, and players should avoid at all costs utilizing a feature of the game as an exploit to gain an advantage over their opponents. Use weapons and vehicles in as realistic manner as possible.

2. Teamkilling/Teamwounding

Intentional teamkilling and/or team wounding is not allowed.

3. Bunnyhopping

Bunnyhopping, or jumping repeatedly to avoid fire, is not allowed.

4. Suicide Tactics

Suicide tactics are FORBIDDEN*. Such tactics include suicide c4 jeeps (or any other vehicle), ramming any vehicle or player with a vehicle and blowing yourself up to cause the death of the other player.

* Exception: Insurgents in the project reality mod may use suicide vehicles and c4

5. Basecamping

Main bases: A main base is defined as a flag where the opponent has their only permanent spawn point (this includes a mosque spawn point on insurgency maps - this is a clarification of the rule).
UCB: The opponents main base which cannot be captured.

The rules regarding main bases/UCB are as follows:

Insurgents can attack enemy main at any time using whatever tactics they want as this is a real-life tactic. Remaining rules do not apply to insurgents only.
BluFor forces may not fire into a mosque area with a permanent spawn point, ever, as this mirrors real-life ROE. Camping outside a mosque spawn point for the purpose of racking up easy kills is also prohibited. (clarification added 11-23-2008)
Main flag is completely off limits to enemy soldiers unless flag is in play. This includes spec ops and sapper squads. If the main is neutral, the attacking force does not have to withdraw and may stay to defend the flag.
Units firing out of the main onto enemy forces may receive return fire, otherwise you are not to fire into the enemy main base to spawn kill.
Destroying/sabotaging vehicles inside the main is prohibited. This includes but is not limited to placing mines or C4 onto vehicles or near them to prevent them from being used or destroying them.
Access directly out of the main may not be blocked or impeded by mines, c4, or other means.
Bridges and other means of departing the area around the main may be attacked and is not considered base camping.
Aircraft returning to their main airfield may be engaged until they've landed.

The enemy command post (CP) may not be destroyed any more, so there is no reason to attack the enemy main or attempt to sabotage the CP.

5a. Basecamping - destruction of area attack

Destruction of enemy artillery pieces used for area attacks is not allowed. This is an exploit of the map and is not a valid attack.

6. Commanding

Commanders MUST make commanding their team their top priority.

7. Joining a squad

All players are required to join a squad or they will be removed from the server by an automated script. A player has 90 seconds to join a squad before being removed.

8. Locking a squad

Players may lock their squads, but they must be unlocked if there are no squads available for players to join a squad before being auto-kicked for being squadless. If an admin requests that a squad-leader unlock their squad and the squad-leader does not comply he may be removed from the server. Also, one man locked squads are not allowed.

9. Reserving assets

To assist the Commander in performing his duties, the Commander has final say on distribution of all assets. Naming a squad "Attack Helo" does not entitle that squad to the attack helicopters unless the CO designates them to that squad. Please remember, squads do not dictate the assignment of an asset, the CO does.

When there is no commander, or the CO has not designated a squad for a particular asset, assets are distributed on a first-come, first-serve basis. Players are to act maturely and take turns with assets. Fighting over assets could result in both parties being removed from the server.

10. Stealing Assets

Stealing a kit or vehicle that is already occupied, being repaired, or otherwise in use by another teammate is not allowed.

11. Orders

All players are required to follow orders. Squad Leaders are required to follow reasonable orders from their Commander, and all players must follow Squad Leader orders.

12. Behavior of players

All players are to be respectful of one another and behavior in a mature manner. Usage of racist or derogatory terms is forbidden. Insulting or verbally attacking another player via VOIP or chat is unacceptable. Repeated usage of crude language is not allowed. Spamming chat is not allowed. We also do not allow clans to recruit or attempt to recruit on our servers. If you wish to recruit members for you clan, do it on your dime, not ours.

I think you'll notice that nowhere in the rules does it state that you cannot one-man a vehicle. It states in Rule #1 to Use weapons and vehicles in as realistic manner as possible.. Again, it would seem readily apparent to me that it is a judgment call left for the admins to decide, based on the circumstances, what is being used realistically and what is not.

[/EDIT]

**Wicks** · 05-28-2009, 12:12 PM

On a perhaps more positive note how about we all look at this thread as a timely reminder to adhere to our rules and primer rather than continue in the direction it has already gone. We all make mistakes, get frustrated, irritated, short with people etc I know I do. Lets all clean up our act a bit and try to ensure TG remains the premier PR server where people can have fun in a tactical manner.

**Alpha_s9** · 05-28-2009, 01:20 PM

Originally Posted by d1sp0sabl3H3r0

[EDIT]

I wanted to post the rules, since people are so keen on quoting them. Perhaps everyone needs to review them again:

I think you'll notice that nowhere in the rules does it state that you cannot one-man a vehicle. It states in Rule #1 to Use weapons and vehicles in as realistic manner as possible.. Again, it would seem readily apparent to me that it is a judgment call left for the admins to decide, based on the circumstances, what is being used realistically and what is not.

[/EDIT]

Not to bust your balls or anything... but uh, what about this thread? Your rules don't state number 13.

http://www.tacticalgamer.com/battlef...take-note.html

On a side note, the interpretation of that rule (at least in my mind) means that the particular situation being discussed here would be "due to exceptional circumstances" and an admin decision. Personally I think saving a tank at the expense of an APC is valid, and the manner in which this apc's use was described is completely acceptable... minus the possible exchange of words that may or may not have occurred during this incident.

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