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Discussion: Project Reality / PR:BF2 - It’s time to start enforcing the rules on TG tagged players. - Edit
  1. #91

    Portable.Cougar's Avatar

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    Re: It’s time to start enforcing the rules on TG tagged players.

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    Last edited by Portable.Cougar; 05-29-2009 at 03:02 AM.


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  3. #92

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    Re: It’s time to start enforcing the rules on TG tagged players.


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  5. #93

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    Re: It’s time to start enforcing the rules on TG tagged players.

    So I've been thinking about why I'm part of this community, and I've decided it's not because of the rules. Don't get me wrong, I like the rules and think they're necessary. But they aren't the reason I spend so much time trolling the forums, chilling on TS, and playing on the server. The actual reason is because I have fun here. It may sound strange, but I find pretending to be in a war zone to be unusually relaxing and enjoyable. And the reason I come home from work and immediately log on to TS is because I want to joke around with all the great friends I've made here. And the forums? Well, they say that admitting you have an addiction is the first step on the road to recovery.

    So where do the rules fit in? I see the rules as a reflection of our community's values. And though I don't speak for the community, I've been around enough to know that we all value teamwork, maturity, fairness, and good gameplay. So when I see another TGer breaking the rules, my first reaction is to inform instead of report. I don't follow and promote the rules for their own sake, but because I believe in the values behind the rules. And I don't see any point in enforcing the rules if I'm not also encouraging the values that they're based on.

    Maybe I come off as sounding soft to many of you. And maybe I don't sound especailly "TG." But at the end of the day, I'm here to have fun and relax and hang out with my friends. And I'm not going to let a some bunny-hopper or guy one-manning an APC ruin my vibe. And I'm certainly not going to start tearing apart this community just because some people don't interpret the rules in the same way I do.

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  7. #94

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    Re: It’s time to start enforcing the rules on TG tagged players.

    Quote Originally Posted by Charity Case View Post
    So I've been thinking about why I'm part of this community, and I've decided it's not because of the rules. Don't get me wrong, I like the rules and think they're necessary. But they aren't the reason I spend so much time trolling the forums, chilling on TS, and playing on the server. The actual reason is because I have fun here. It may sound strange, but I find pretending to be in a war zone to be unusually relaxing and enjoyable. And the reason I come home from work and immediately log on to TS is because I want to joke around with all the great friends I've made here. And the forums? Well, they say that admitting you have an addiction is the first step on the road to recovery.

    So where do the rules fit in? I see the rules as a reflection of our community's values. And though I don't speak for the community, I've been around enough to know that we all value teamwork, maturity, fairness, and good gameplay. So when I see another TGer breaking the rules, my first reaction is to inform instead of report. I don't follow and promote the rules for their own sake, but because I believe in the values behind the rules. And I don't see any point in enforcing the rules if I'm not also encouraging the values that they're based on.

    Maybe I come off as sounding soft to many of you. And maybe I don't sound especailly "TG." But at the end of the day, I'm here to have fun and relax and hang out with my friends. And I'm not going to let a some bunny-hopper or guy one-manning an APC ruin my vibe. And I'm certainly not going to start tearing apart this community just because some people don't interpret the rules in the same way I do.
    This is a good post. I really wish some of you would turn off your flamethrowers for a second and really understand what he is saying here. If some people would follow this line of thought more, then we all wouldn't be so bogged down with who did what.

    Bottom Line: If you got a problem with Anyone (tagged, non-tagged, IHS member, admin) then you contact an admin. WE decided on the course of action. Calling people out in a public form is petty and not becoming of anyone. Everyone makes mistakes. It' human. Learn from them and it served a purpose. The admin team works hard everyday to make the Servers run smoothly. It is up to YOU to do your part to do the same.
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  9. #95

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    Re: It’s time to start enforcing the rules on TG tagged players.

    I'll have to apologize for using Stinger Missiles and HAT Missiles from a huey on Op. Archer yesterday. I didn't know that wasn't allowed. (Or unrealistic.)

    However, when using the Stinger, we did get that cache (by pure luck) on the mountain west of Eagles Nest. That was pretty darn funny.

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  11. #96

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    Re: It’s time to start enforcing the rules on TG tagged players.

    That's a nice way to think about it, and a proper way too. We do make mistakes.

    After all- Pobodies Nerfect.
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  13. #97

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    Re: It’s time to start enforcing the rules on TG tagged players.

    Quote Originally Posted by d1sp0sabl3H3r0 View Post
    Well, since I flagrantly broke the one-manning rule, and since, by gosh everything is so perfectly black and white in this fantasy world some of you live in, I will ban myself for the period of 1 week, starting right now.

    See you guys in a week.
    Taking something personal that you brought up is not conductive to the discussion. I for one stated that the issue with one man APCs is a gray area and was stating an opinion, as everything stated in a discussion forum without footnotes and references is an opinion. There's no reason to martyr yourself to make your point.
    Just because everyone does something does not mean that it is right to do.

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  15. #98

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    Re: It’s time to start enforcing the rules on TG tagged players.

    Quote Originally Posted by Charity Case View Post
    So I've been thinking about why I'm part of this community, and I've decided it's not because of the rules. Don't get me wrong, I like the rules and think they're necessary. But they aren't the reason I spend so much time trolling the forums, chilling on TS, and playing on the server. The actual reason is because I have fun here. It may sound strange, but I find pretending to be in a war zone to be unusually relaxing and enjoyable. And the reason I come home from work and immediately log on to TS is because I want to joke around with all the great friends I've made here. And the forums? Well, they say that admitting you have an addiction is the first step on the road to recovery.

    So where do the rules fit in? I see the rules as a reflection of our community's values. And though I don't speak for the community, I've been around enough to know that we all value teamwork, maturity, fairness, and good gameplay. So when I see another TGer breaking the rules, my first reaction is to inform instead of report. I don't follow and promote the rules for their own sake, but because I believe in the values behind the rules. And I don't see any point in enforcing the rules if I'm not also encouraging the values that they're based on.

    Maybe I come off as sounding soft to many of you. And maybe I don't sound especailly "TG." But at the end of the day, I'm here to have fun and relax and hang out with my friends. And I'm not going to let a some bunny-hopper or guy one-manning an APC ruin my vibe. And I'm certainly not going to start tearing apart this community just because some people don't interpret the rules in the same way I do.
    I also inform first unless it is a repeat offender who I know is aware of the rule they are breaking. I even informed the two in my first example that teamkilling was never allowed, I only reported when they continued. When I reported I noted I had informed them of the rule but they were still only warned. That is a situation where they should have been banned right away because the admin had been informed that they knew about the rule (and could have checked the text logs) and they continued to break a basic rule.
    Just because everyone does something does not mean that it is right to do.

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  17. #99

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    Re: It’s time to start enforcing the rules on TG tagged players.

    Quote Originally Posted by d1sp0sabl3H3r0 View Post
    Well, since I flagrantly broke the one-manning rule, and since, by gosh everything is so perfectly black and white in this fantasy world some of you live in, I will ban myself for the period of 1 week, starting right now.

    See you guys in a week.
    I have no idea what you meant by that comment but could i please get an actual answer and not a comment like that? Please and thanks


    Do you really want invincible bears running around raping your churches and burning your women?

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  19. #100


    d1sp0sabl3H3r0's Avatar

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    Re: It’s time to start enforcing the rules on TG tagged players.

    This is the deal:

    It is extremely frustrating to me personally that so many people only see things as right or wrong. It is extremely disheartening that people are being called out for using their brains and being creative to solve problems. It is absolutely mind-boggling that the two instances cited in this thread were both cases where players were helping their team, not hurting it, yet both players are being told that what was done was wrong and against the rules.

    To me, one-manning an apc to whore kills is not the same as one-manning an apc to push a tank out of a ditch and save it for the team. To me, one-manning an apc to transport squads into a flag to prevent it from being capped immediately by a superior opponent is not the same as one-manning an apc to a prime ambush spot and using it as an ammo dump and kit request point for your own personal glory. Yet in both cases, people see nothing but the rules; they cannot think outside the box and try to solve problems, and that is sad. Instead, the tank should be left in the ditch until it is destroyed by the enemy or just sit there all round. Instead, those squads should be made to walk to the flag which will be in enemy hands by the time they get there and lose a round in 15 minutes (and probably cause half the players to quit in frustration and the other half to start another teamstacking thread).

    Also, let me be perfectly clear: There is absolutely nowhere in the rules that states that a player cannot one-man a vehicle. Nowhere! It simply says to use the vehicles and weapons in the game in as realistic a manner as possible.

    What is not realistic about towing another vehicle out of a ditch? What is not realistic about using a vehicle capable of carrying an entire squad in that manner with no intent to try to engage the enemy? Remember, it is called an APC for a reason - Armored Personnel Carrier.

    Why isn't there a rule specifically against one-manning a vehicle? Because things aren't always cut and dry, that's why. It gives me, an admin, leeway to make a decision based on the circumstances as to whether something needs to be done or not about the situation. This is good for the server. This is good for TG. This is good for you, the TG member.

    It lets me ask the player if his gunner disconnected.
    It lets me ask the player if he is meeting his gunner elsewhere. Heaven forbid that his partner accidentally spawned somewhere else on the map instead of at the main, because people never make mistakes, right?
    It lets me ask the player all sorts of questions and decide what his intentions are. It let's me tell that vBF2 player who just installed PR that tanks aren't the same in PR as they are in vanilla and you need to return to the base to get a gunner. You know, the education part of being an admin?
    It lets me get rid of a player who has no interest in helping their team or working with others, either temporarily or permanently.

    In other words, it lets me be the kind of admin that I think TG would like to have, not some heavy-handed draconian mindless robot who only knows the rules and that's all.

    The problem a lot of people seem to have is that they spend more time worrying about what everyone else is doing and not enough time focused on themselves. Everyone likes vigilante justice. Everyone is looking for a chance to take someone else down. Everyone likes to tell everyone else how to do things. Everyone likes to let everyone else know how great they are.

    It's pathetic.

    Stop the witch hunts. Whether that was the intent or not, this is what it seems to have become.

    At the end of the day, PR is just a game. People play it to have fun and socialize with their friends. Yes, we have our rules. Yes, we have our Primer. But I'll tell you what. If people are intent on sucking the fun and creativity out of the game then the rules and the primer mean absolutely nothing.

    The fun has been sucked out of it for me. I'm leaving for a week. There's no martyrdom there at all, trust me. I wouldn't give any of you the satisfaction.
    Last edited by d1sp0sabl3H3r0; 05-29-2009 at 11:52 AM. Reason: grammar - shoot me

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  21. #101


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    Re: It’s time to start enforcing the rules on TG tagged players.

    Firstly: in effect, there is a rule against one manning. In the past it was allowed, now it's generally not. Of course there are times when one manning is fine and even if there was an explicite rule that would be no different.

    It seems some people need to think of the reason behind the rules. The rules are there to ensure Maturity, Teamwork, Realism, Gameplay etc.
    One manning, one man locked squads [#8], COs commanding [#6] are specific examples of bad teamwork and are enforced to prevent this bad teamwork. Saying that these teamwork based rules should be followed first, and trying to help the team should come second is silly.

    My biggest issue on the server is lack of teamwork, an example:
    Barracuda yesterday, i'm on PLA and the US have a roadblock set up west of our main.
    I see a truck heading out of main and tell his not to go down the road. I look through the playerlist to find who it is, and notice he's in a 5 man inf squad with a sniper kit, using the the truck as a taxi.
    I tell him again not to go down the road, he drives straight ahead and dies losing his life, the kit and the truck.
    He just wanted to be a 1337 sniper with no regard for what assets he was wasting or helping the team, but because he didn't break a specific rule this is perfectly fine?

    A small set of rules can't cover everything, so admin discretion would be the only way to handle this. Of course if admins were to adress all the cases like this it would be a big workload. I get frustrated by having to watch these people and know I can do nothing about it.


    Dispo: Enjoy your week off, sometimes it helps. Hope you have a better experience when you come back.

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  23. #102


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    Re: It’s time to start enforcing the rules on TG tagged players.

    For me it's all about showcasing our fun and friendly teamwork-oriented gaming-community, TG.

    I try to be polite and to teach what we're trying to do here. Our style of play and thinking of fun teamplay together. It's simple. We strive for realistic immersion in many of our games, maturity, respect towards others and in general fun teamwork. That's what the rules try to support and guide us towards in general. You can get by most of the rules with just remembering that.

    If this doesn't help, report them to the admins via ingame chat, xfire or PM. They will deal with the issue best they can. Be humble and don't get mad yourself. These people just don't understand, yet.




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  25. #103

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    Re: It’s time to start enforcing the rules on TG tagged players.

    Just because things help the team does not make them right. In both examples having a gunner would have made all the difference, and is not too much to ask.

    Here's some other things that help the team, might not have an immediate effect on anyone else but are still wrong.

    Squadleader has been using a rifleman kit because there are two people in the squad. Additional people join but they are nowhere near resupply. The medic shoots the officer, who then selects the officer kit and they wait 35 seconds for the kit to disappear. Medic revives SL who now magically has an officer kit and can set a rally. No tickets lost, rule broken intentional team killing/wounding.

    Is this ok because it is creative and helps the team? No.

    If the enemy killed the SL and he switched to the officer kit before being revived? Waiting to revive a rifleman so that he will come back with a fresh supply of grenades and ammo? - not something I would report or consider poor play because it is due to an engine limitation of the kit disappearing after 30 seconds. It is hard not to do this unintentionally since people will set the officer kit before being shot so they come back with it next time they spawn. It's too hard to tell whether it was intentional or if the revive zone was too hot to make enforcing this worth it.

    See, I'm not so black and white on the engine exploits rule when it is something that just happens the majority of the time without intent.

    Shooting smacktard who is killing people at main?

    Never right even though the player is hurting the team.

    Ramming a vehicle while your vehicle is wounded because you know you will die?

    Never right because suicide tactics are forbidden, even if it helps the team and you would have died anyway.

    Building a fort on top of a building even though it is unrealistic due to logistics?

    Don't have a problem with this because of limitations on what can be built.

    My point is that some things that are creative and help the team are fine and some aren't. Getting mad at people because they have differing opinions is not conductive to an open discussion. If people are pming the people who said they were part of the examples and saying harsh things then the people sending the pms are in the wrong, but anyone commenting on their opinion about how they should have been handled within the thread should not be taken personally and I have not noticed anyone saying someone should be permabanned for any of the examples.

    Disposable: I have been an admin on another game with equally hostile players when it comes to admin decisions. Within this thread there is no witch hunt, simply people discussing some examples and how they would have responded. You can either take their opinion personally or just be glad that they aren't the admins smacking players around with the banhammer because a gunner got disconnected.

    All of your examples of things you can do because of the gray use as intended rule are things you could do anyway because you have the option as an admin to clarify the rules when they are not black and white. We as members of the community have the option to question your decision or even give our opinion on how we would do it differently, possibly even in a way that sounds like we are telling you what to do (or are intending to tell you what to do). You have the ability to ignore this feedback, even if it gets really frustrating to do so.
    Just because everyone does something does not mean that it is right to do.

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  27. #104


    d1sp0sabl3H3r0's Avatar

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    Re: It’s time to start enforcing the rules on TG tagged players.

    My last post on this topic. Promise.

    Here is a portion of a nomination for Distinguished Conduct:
    I was gaming on the TG server about a week ago on Verdun ( when the transports were still on the map ). I was squad leader of "transprt" squad. I had six members and we were all geared up to grab the transport and go cap flags. After the round began some joker took off by himself in the transport and left me and my squad sitting there at the main base with our thumbs up our .. well .. you get the idea

    My Squad and I had basically resigned ourselves to hoofing it when all of a sudden we hear an aircraft approaching. I look up to see our own transport returning to the Main Base. It is no longer being piloted by the joker, but by GlobalWarmin. To our astonishment he lands the transport at our feet on the HeliPad; hops out; then heads back in the other direction to his squad on foot.

    He didnt get any 'points' for doing that - his 'stats' didnt improve - he didnt get an unlock or a field upgrade - he didnt even get a ride back to his sqaud ...

    Why did he do it ?

    Plain and Simply ... He did it because it 'needed' to be done; because he wanted the 'team' to succeed; because he 'understands' what teamwork is all about.
    In 2142 this player gets nominated for a ribbon and is deservedly awarded said ribbon.

    In PR, he is violating the "rules" and should be questioned as to his judgment.

    Have a great weekend everyone!

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  29. #105

    snooggums's Avatar

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    Re: It’s time to start enforcing the rules on TG tagged players.

    I don't see how he would have been violating the PR rules.
    Just because everyone does something does not mean that it is right to do.

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