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  1. #46
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    Re: Zedic's Military Radio Procedure Adaptation.

    I have my own SOP's. The SOP's were also written in a general BF2 era context, rather than tailored to PR.

    Quote Originally Posted by asch
    Just to clarify, the SOPs listed in this forum group are best practices that are encouraged but are not required.
    Skud

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  3. #47



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    Re: Zedic's Military Radio Procedure Adaptation.

    Quote Originally Posted by Startrekern View Post
    I have that article. I was like, "Hey, that looks like Zedic's.. uh.. Ooh."

    No, but seriously, communications in PR anymore are "Uh, there's a BMP north of us."

    Who's us?
    Where are you?
    Where's the BMP, specifically?
    Are you under threat by it?
    Who might be under threat by it?
    Which way's it moving?
    Is it stationary?
    Does it have any other vehicles nearby?

    Crap like that is one of the reasons I don't much care for flying CAS with Gunships (Cobra, Apache/Havok) anymore.
    Quote Originally Posted by Celestial1 View Post
    Just because someone can K.I.S.S. doesn't always mean they can convey relevant information properly.

    I for one applaud Zedic for the guide, and suggest that while it may not need be followed to a tee we should especially pay attention to some of the non-diction related sections of the post (Such as the ABCs of communication, and information filtering).

    I for one am sick and tired of others spending a half-minute on mic to tell me there's enemy vehicles to their north, because they continually "Uh," and "uhm,"ed me to death as they figured out the info.
    I like Zedic's piece and applaud the effort and realism that it represents, do I use it wholesale no. So what is wrong with comms during some rounds of PR at TG, well here's a list:-

    - CAS types dominating channels because they believe their job is the sole purpose of the map

    - People with bad mic's talking incessantly

    - People talking for the sake of it, actually getting infantry killed because the SL cannot hear over the din

    - The relaying of irrelevant information

    - The relaying of inaccurate information

    - Pwn speak and self congratulatory banter

    - Some of the less mature players using it as a social channel

    Mumble has (despite its functionality allowing for the prevention of this) actually worsened this to a degree. We now have people broadcasting 'intel' to the whole team because they believe it is so crucial, whilst failing to appreciate it is time sensitive and geographically relevant information and the rest of the team may not need to know.

    Much like several misconceptions floating around the current trend seems to be the more you are talking, the more teamwork orientated you are, the more tactically astute you are. This is of course hogwash. The best communicators ensure their comms are understandable, concise, relevant and transmitted to the appropriate people. Information overload happens all too often.

    I think many of us, myself included, have a long way to go in mastering the basis of truly effective, disciplined comms before we need to tackle what is effectively an advanced course in proper military comms (for the average joe). Never the less an excellent piece of work Zedic.

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  5. #48
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    Re: Zedic's Military Radio Procedure Adaptation.

    COMS

    VOIP

    Squad members
    * let your SL know you have a mic
    * speak only when it is important or spoken to
    * if you have mumble, use it, especially when crewing a vehicle, but follow the above guideline - speak only when it is important or spoken to

    Squad Leaders:
    * If you have a CO, check in with him so he knows you have a mic
    * Perform a mic check with your squad
    * Tell the squad to keep coms to minimum, encourage mumble usage
    * If you have mumble, get in the SL channel
    * If you have important information to relay to the team, make sure you know who is near you before you broadcast to everyone because you really only need to tell those that are immediately impacted and not everyone.
    * If you need to talk to the CO, use the simple "Command, Squad x" - if it is important "Command, Squad x URGENT!" then wait patiently for a reply from the CO asking you to proceed
    * If you need to talk to another SL using mumble or TS, initiate coms with "Squad y, Squad x" and again wait for a reply before continuing
    * Keep coms brief and to the point to avoid ovewhelming your CO and your teammates

    I could care less about the protocol of the coms, just keep it clear, concise and relevant.

    Most important: So much of this game is dependent on audio cues as to what threats are near and what type of threat you are facing. You are reduced to visual only cues if the coms are constantly flooded with nonsense. Shut your mouth, open your ears. When you need to speak, make it relevant and clearly present the information you need to, then return to keeping your mouth closed.

    Pretty sure this has all been said before in a lot of places; its not like any of this is original stuff. We just need more people to remember that VOIP spam is the same as chat spam - in both cases you are disturbing the game for others, so remembering that you aren't the most important person on the server would help a lot of people.



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  7. #49

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    Re: Zedic's Military Radio Procedure Adaptation.

    Quote Originally Posted by d1sp0sabl3H3r0 View Post
    COMS

    * If you need to talk to the CO, use the simple "Command, Squad x" - if it is important "Command, Squad x URGENT!" then wait patiently for a reply from the CO asking you to proceed

    I could care less about the protocol of the coms, just keep it clear, concise and relevant.
    Funny, somewhat related story.

    Yesterday as CO I had one squad led by a guy named Hotdogsandhandgrenades... whoever that is. I tried several times to initiate comms with him to no avail. I had finally given up hope that he would ever respond.

    His squad had built a hideout well away from the fight... and people would occasionally spawn on it for no reason. Since this was detracting from the rest of the team, I destroyed it.

    He rebuilt it, still no comms at all. So I destroy it again. This happened probably 3 times until finally i get a comm break from his squad saying "if you're going to destroy a FOB, destroy that one I just placed because it's in a bad spot and I want to move it."

    This was obviously someone who had played enough to know better but probably didn't care because they were "incognito". I complied with his request, but I almost didn't because of his lack of comms.

    If that same squad had suddenly called down arty, there's no way i would of approved it simply because of the lack of communication from this particular squad. I probably wouldn't of approved anything they had asked for, because they were off in their own world using up 6 slots that I could of had for someone that was actually useful.... but I digress.

    The point here is, as a commander... lack of communication will put your squad on the bottom of my christmas list. The squads that are responsive to CO communications, effective at reporting troop movements and positions... those are the squads that I'll do whatever they ask as soon as they ask it. If the CO calls out your squad number, you should reply. If you don't want to, then you should give up the SL seat.

    As CO, communication is all you have. If you don't have that, then you're just sitting in the CP waiting on someone to call down arty and hoping that person knew what they were doing. (which in my experience is 90% fail, especially if it's chrisweb)

    "I thought it would only be a couple of mines." Bad chrisweb... BAAAAD!

    Just to help keep this slightly more on topic... I really do appreciate this guide or SoP or whatever you want to call it... mainly because I'm really sick of hearing story time on comms. You don't have to use these procedures explicitly to be effective, but you will need to understand them in case you run into someone who does.

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  9. #50

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    Re: Zedic's Military Radio Procedure Adaptation.

    I agree with everyone here.

    Zedic, its a great system that I would actually love to see used more. I try to use it at sometimes only to get a "whatever ok" response from a CO or something but I think It shouldn't be used as a reference when communicating.

    For one I think its more distracting and over complicated for the minds of many and by the time you think of how to word something, your BMP has probably changed positions.


    Now it could serve as a reminder as how to do things.

    the "uh theres a bmp to our north and it has some guys with it." probably isn't the best way.

    An overkill statement also isn't practical for this game.

    Hence just make it simple, but detailed.
    "Squad 5, how does Village look?"
    "Uh, there's a BMP just north of the crossroads but I can't see it anymore. He's on heat rounds if you want to flank him."
    "We got shot at by a HAT on the mountain in G5 so heads up."

    That would be mumble like talk...


    "Four to command..."
    "Go ahead four"
    "I have two tanks on the hill west of us... around G2 area and their infantry are moving in"
    "can you get a lase on those tanks? I have CAS standing by"
    "Uh sure, let me try"

    "Is CAS up and ready?"
    "Yeah, what do you see?"
    "There's two tanks on the hill in G2kp3, no AA, I'm lasing one when your ready."
    "Ok I'm coming"
    "Is it lased now?"
    "yeah lased"
    "Good hit, one down, tell me when your ready for the next one."
    .....

    Most of the times, we don't have radio procedures memorized so recalling them from the deepest parts in your brain are actually more prone for error over just saying what you know clearly as dispo mentioned.
    csxgamerz


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  11. #51

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    Re: Zedic's Military Radio Procedure Adaptation.

    Quote Originally Posted by csxgamerz View Post
    Hence just make it simple, but detailed.
    "Squad 5, how does Village look?"
    "Uh, there's a BMP just north of the crossroads but I can't see it anymore. He's on heat rounds if you want to flank him."
    "We got shot at by a HAT on the mountain in G5 so heads up."
    "Squad 5, how does Village look?"
    "BMP north of crossroads, no visual, HAT in G5"

    "Four to command..."
    "Go ahead four"
    "I have two tanks on the hill west of us... around G2 area and their infantry are moving in"
    "can you get a lase on those tanks? I have CAS standing by"
    "Uh sure, let me try"
    "Four to command..."
    "Go ahead four"
    "Two tanks, roughly G2, infantry is moving in"
    "Can you lase the tanks? CAS is standing by"
    "Not possible to lase yet"

    "Is CAS up and ready?"
    "Yeah, what do you see?"
    "There's two tanks on the hill in G2kp3, no AA, I'm lasing one when your ready."
    "Ok I'm coming"
    "Is it lased now?"
    "yeah lased"
    "Good hit, one down, tell me when your ready for the next one."
    "CAS, two tanks G2k3, no AA."
    "Roger, lase now"
    "Roger, target marked"
    "Bomb away"
    "Good kill, ready to lase second tank."






    Take a second to think things out, say as much as you can in as little space as possible. I don't want to hear (as CAS or as SL) a 6 line CAS request when you could have accomplished the same in 2 lines.

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  13. #52

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    Re: Zedic's Military Radio Procedure Adaptation.

    perfecto celes +rep

    see that's the stuff I want to see, not even my stuff but yours was spot on. Simple, understandable, detailed, but now hard to say.

    What I meant with mine was that sometimes when you are getting shot by heat rounds, you talk alot... well not thats a lie, thats more like just me. W/e Most times, people that are present and flying CAS are ok with that because all they care about is good intel and kills.

    But yes, think things out, keep it short, but make sure all content is there. .
    csxgamerz


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  15. #53
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    Re: Zedic's Military Radio Procedure Adaptation.

    For those that use voice comms there is a reason for the Team text channel too:

    Low priority intel.

    Let's say we are on Kashan, no one on your team is near South Village and it is not in play. There is no commander to mark the area, and you just happen to notice an enemy FoB in teh middle of the Village. Since you might be pushing there in the next 30 minutes if you hold bunkers the best way to inform your team is through team chat:

    <team> Enemy FoB spotted in South Village.

    This doesn't distract others with currently useless info but a squad planning on moving there may notice and keep it in mind. This is also helpful for things like:

    Flag status updates
    Enemy support vehicles
    Vehicle transport requests when no commander
    Giving other squads an idea of what you are going to be doing in the near future

    All of these situations most likely only apply to one other relevant squad and are less intrusive in team chat than over SL channel. When there is constant SL channel intel there is no room to actually complete the current objectives. There is only one thing I hate more than no comms, and that is constant comms that make the SL channel a hassle.
    |TG-6th|Snooggums

    Just because everyone does something does not mean that it is right to do.

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  17. #54
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    Re: Zedic's Military Radio Procedure Adaptation.

    Good Ideas from snooggums, and if you have the time when using mumble SL channel always type it in team chat so that either non mumble users can get the information that my be important to to them or just to give the people in the mumble SL channel text to read incase they misheard you the first time. Other than that its been a while since I read zedics guide and for me Dispo's guide is a bit better for PR but still contains many of the important things, but not into as much detail as zedic's, which is where his shines.

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  19. #55
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    Re: Zedic's Military Radio Procedure Adaptation.

    Quote Originally Posted by chrisweb89 View Post
    Good Idea from snooggums, and if you have the time when using mumble SL channel always type it in team chat so that either non mumble users can get the information that my be important to to them or just to give the people in the mumble SL channel text to read incase they misheard you the first time.
    I make a squad member do that part for me when I am otherwise occupied such as driving or marking a location on the minimap, or do it for my SL if they are occupied.
    |TG-6th|Snooggums

    Just because everyone does something does not mean that it is right to do.

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  21. #56
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    Re: Zedic's Military Radio Procedure Adaptation.

    Quote Originally Posted by snooggums View Post
    I make a squad member do that part for me when I am otherwise occupied such as driving or marking a location on the minimap, or do it for my SL if they are occupied.
    Good point by Snoogums, so I'm going to steal it and expand on it:

    If the CAS squad is not in mumble (or teamspeak), designate one of your squad members as your FAC guy and relay information to him over VOIP so he can type it to the CAS squad, freeing you, the SL, to laser designate in a timely fashion without getting your head blown off. It's called teamwork for a reason, right?
    Last edited by d1sp0sabl3H3r0; 12-14-2009 at 06:21 PM. Reason: i left out the bastard stepchild of VOIP



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  23. #57



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    Re: Zedic's Military Radio Procedure Adaptation.

    Typing relevant info in chat, good idea, typing all the other cr#p in chat is not. Perhaps this will encourage people to think twice before abusing the text chat function as well. All the rules of voip apply to text, I don't want to see reams of 'wit' in text because :-

    1 - It obscures relevant info
    2 - It obscures my view, those playing on a widescreen monitor willknow that it fills half the screen
    3 - It spoils the game

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  25. #58
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    Re: Zedic's Military Radio Procedure Adaptation.

    Zedic posted this communication guide back during the IWS I believe
    Team C was using it a lot and it helped.
    I really like the simple:
    "squad 1 this is 2"
    "send it"
    "we got...."

    information I like to type in teamchat are locations of enemy FBs, ATs
    or choppers I happen to spot.

    A method DaveyJones and me used when we were running CAS on kashan 32:
    He was the pilot and I was the gunner.
    We were both in the mumble SL channel.
    I was communicating with the other SLs while he could focus on flying,
    while still being able to hear the grid/and the "laze is ready". I marked it on the map
    and we attacked. worked out pretty well.

    edit: yeah I know numbers, numbers
    just wanted to show you guys that it's a really effective way of communication
    when running cas
    [media]http://i735.photobucket.com/albums/ww360/stealthb/apache.jpg[/media]
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  27. #59
    Startrekern
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    Re: Zedic's Military Radio Procedure Adaptation.

    A few days after I bumped this, communication spectacularly improved.

    Good show, let's keep it up

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    Re: Zedic's Military Radio Procedure Adaptation.

    Quote Originally Posted by A.WICKENS View Post
    Typing relevant info in chat, good idea, typing all the other cr#p in chat is not. Perhaps this will encourage people to think twice before abusing the text chat function as well. All the rules of voip apply to text, I don't want to see reams of 'wit' in text because :-

    1 - It obscures relevant info
    2 - It obscures my view, those playing on a widescreen monitor willknow that it fills half the screen
    3 - It spoils the game
    1 can be a problem, never had a problem with 2 (play on a 16:9, 1920x1080 monitor), and I don't understand 3.

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