Re: Obaying bad SL orders

**joe98** · 07-23-2009, 12:10 PM

Ferris gets MY vote. Does that help? No.... As with all the rules it is a matter of rules + common sense = greatness.

**Wicks** · 07-23-2009, 01:06 PM

My basic rule of thumb as SL or SM is this:

- You follow Sl orders or leave the squad, its that simple, unless ordered to break server rules.

How do you know an order is suicidal until you carry it out. Have you never assaulted from the same position twice, after dying the first time as SL or in another squad. You are not privvy to all the info the SL has, nor are you privvy to a possible larger strategy that may be in play, perhaps bigger than your own survival. As Sl I have beaten my head against the same proverbial brick wall on occasions, well aware that I will not take a particular flag on my own or from that angle, what I do know that is my team mates attacking from the North will be able to get in position due to the ruckus my squad is causing and despite the possible casualties my team will benefit in the long run.

Whilst I applaud a strive for realism and self presevation this is a war game, sometimes the apparently suicidal approach viewed differently is merely unorthodox, unconventional and bold. Often just what's required to break a dead lock or surpise and unnerve your opponent. Just don't do it too often or it simply becomes conventional and dumb.

If you have to query an approach then respectfully ask 'so how are we gonna do this, as they have that area covered'. The SL, if he has time, should be happy to give you more detail on his plan and will probably be glad you are interested and paying attention.

At the end of the day, if you don't like it, leave and set up your own squad. If you are already assessing strategy than you are ready to lead a squad.
If more people did this we would have more SL's and more obedient SM's.

One last thing don't just drop from a squad the first time you hear something you don't like. Most people have a reason for issuing orders, the SL gave you a spot in his squad, the least you can do is hear him out and try to follow orders.

**AlmightyLion** · 07-23-2009, 01:10 PM

Originally Posted by A.WICKENS

- You follow Sl orders or leave the squad, its that simple, unless ordered to break server rules.

Delta*RandyShugart* · 07-23-2009, 02:49 PM

Leaving the squad is the easy thing to do, if I had a nickel for everytime an SL gave a order which didn't completely go with what I had in mind, or as a SL if I gave an order that not everyone in my squad agreed with (many times this happens with defense) I would be able to give free Supporting Memberships to a plethora of people and even be able to buy those people many sweaters.

Now as a squad member with experience with PR there are a number of things that you, (directed at everyone) the squad member can do you help assess the situation.

1. If there is a CO, and he gave the order to your SL, ask your SL to suggest to the CO another order.

2. Give suggestions to your SL, politely explain why you think armor in this case is not being put to good use for storming the bunker complex, and assess the situation.

3. If your SL is the gunner, ask him instead if he could be the driver, many times having the SL as the driver of the armored vehicle is a better way to be able to spot contacts address the situation and then be able to attack, or pull back without losing the asset(s), and he can then provide the squad with move, attack, observe orders more quickly and spot out targets with the directional compass.

4. If the SL is new to the armor asset, you can always ask to be a temporary SL, to show him and the squad that going to point A, could in fact be better tactically then immediately going to Point D.

5. Look at the big picture, is this asset(s) that you are using needed? Many times instead of taking multiple assets, one or two might only be needed, what seems missing from your post soupy was a AAV, and or a logi truck with a driver who had a Stinger, and a repair station for your mechanical problems.

If the player is new to TG, always mention to him/her that www.tacticalgamer.com has a forum specifically for PR, and within the BF2 forum itself there are tactic and tips strategy's, along with TGU classes which can help those who wish to SL Armor Assets in game, and for a variety of maps.

If the SL is being rude to the squad as a whole, then that's another story, and if you think that no matter what you explain nicely to him/her won't get through or is met with hostility that TG is based on teamwork, and even though it is your order to use that asset in a particular manner which it is not supposed to be used, it will ultimately cost the team as a whole ticket loss, asset loss and will end up being detrimental to the team, not the squad.

If you go about it in a nice manner, explaining many times SL's whether they are new, or unfamiliar with the particular asset will heed some of the advice, leaving the squad should be the last resort, IMHO. If you leave the squad what really has been accomplished?

To answer your direct question, yes you have to follow SL orders, however if you truly feel the SL orders are being used to lose tickets/asset loss, then speak up right away and explain why using the asset the way the SL wants is not the right thing to do.

**Berlancic** · 07-23-2009, 06:12 PM

Make the SL learn the hard way, through death.

**Portable.Cougar** · 07-23-2009, 06:53 PM

Admin hat on

follow all co and sl orders

if you don't like said order remove yourself from that chain of command.

**Belhade** · 07-23-2009, 08:56 PM

I went on a suicide run last night on the behest of my squad leader. We were the air transport squad on Jabal. Late in the game when the US had positions on land and was pushing on the city, my SL was in the attack Huey and taking a lot of flak from the AAV and APCs coming out of their main. So he asked me to fly interference in one of the spare transport choppers. I did get gunned down but my SL managed to take out an AA emplacement and an APC, then was free to support our infantry in the city.
I had been flying with him the entire round and he is hands-down one of the best chopper pilots I've seen, so I was very confident in his orders.

**Slayer816** · 07-23-2009, 10:30 PM

I continue to learn things from this. 90% of the time I say "I dont think this is such a good idea" it ends with "Oh, thanks for the tip!" I dont mind getting killed, its part of the game. And if I learn something I didnt know because of it, then so be it.

If you know better then start your own squad....and let "bad SL" learn the hard way if he wont take your advice.

**Unedible** · 07-24-2009, 01:53 AM

Best thing to do is to just join a different squad.

Sometimes I obey them anyway just to have a good laugh at what would unfold.

**Gore** · 07-24-2009, 02:54 AM

I have much respect for all squadleaders, so I do what they tell me.

**Berlancic** · 07-24-2009, 08:35 AM

I think we need to take a step back. It is a game after all, and usually the best way to learn something is through practise. As in, getting blown up, not saying you will get blown up. Just have a laugh and be on with it. You'll be happy the SL has just learned something new.
Some people learn differently. Some through written words, others through verbally spoken words, or through actual practise.

Let's face it, it's a common factor to experience an SL who does something he thinks is right, and which you think is wrong.
When he starts telling you to baserape although...

**Soupy_Norman** · 07-24-2009, 11:49 AM

Yeah but loseing 5 vehicles in the space of about 30 minutes because of a bad SL isnt really cool.

I think ill take earlier advice and just leave the squad next time.

Cheers!

**Ivan_the_bad** · 07-24-2009, 12:56 PM

There is nothing more i hate on PR than someone second guesing my orders. If someone does not like the way a Squad leader is running things they should leave the squad or make their own!

**Crombo** · 07-24-2009, 01:54 PM

Originally Posted by Ivan_the_bad

There is nothing more i hate on PR than someone second guesing my orders. If someone does not like the way a Squad leader is running things they should leave the squad or make their own!

1000% agreed! Thats why at the start of every round my sqd gets the ground rules. Number 1, I am the SL, now while im always open to suggestion and advice, when I make a decision, it is final!

**Berlancic** · 07-24-2009, 06:54 PM

Originally Posted by Soupy_Norman

Yeah but loseing 5 vehicles in the space of about 30 minutes because of a bad SL isnt really cool.

I think ill take earlier advice and just leave the squad next time.

Cheers!

Lesson 1: Do what you think is best
Lesson 2: Never Trust Crazy 14 Year Old

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