Re: Whole-Team Convoys Don't Work

**Eavy Gunner** · 07-26-2009, 08:48 AM

Exhibit A: A round on Al-Basrah, with everyone in TS. The armour cover's each others back when moving, and when setting up, they get a 360 vision field of view to stop bomb cars, and thats exactly what we did. We moved round the outskirts of the city as a team and took down the cache's one by one. If you rush in by yourself, you lose the support of possibily outnumbering the enemies as well as having less firepower. If you get wounded, and so does your medic, another squad can help you out by sending their medic. If you rushed in by yourself, worshipping Arnold Schwarzenegger's Commando as your devoted tactican, your going to get screwed over by grenade traps and waiting insurgents, and because of your limited numbers, chances are they will overrun you.

Why do you think they use convoy's in real life?

It's great you have a opinion, but don't thread it, and expect the insurgency veterans of the IWS and many hours of the server to rally behind you.

**Axis_Sniper** · 07-26-2009, 08:56 AM

Originally Posted by Delta*RandyShugart*

"ruins the fun of the insurgents." I disagree, its the blufor's option to take their time, sure if the blufor wants to waste tickets just running and gunning for caches, that is exactly how it will be done, but playing as an insurgent has to come with the idea that patience pay off, for example the sapper kit, you can blow IED's, and u have to wait until a vehicle(s) go by.

You got me wrong, Randy. I didn't mean that Convoys themselves ruin it for the insurgents entirely. It is just when they sit so far away where you can barely see them and continually exploiting the BF2 system where they shoot HEAT rounds that blow up the cache when they aren't even hitting near it.

It gives the insurgents no chance of targeting them. They are so far away that RPGs are ineffective, they are so far away that no sapper can get close without being seen by the 2+ squads just sitting by the APCs bombarding the cache location. They are so far away that they can see the bomb cars coming before the bombcars can even get within visual range.

**ollie_fool** · 07-26-2009, 09:43 AM

Originally Posted by Axis_Sniper

You got me wrong, Randy. I didn't mean that Convoys themselves ruin it for the insurgents entirely. It is just when they sit so far away where you can barely see them and continually exploiting the BF2 system where they shoot HEAT rounds that blow up the cache when they aren't even hitting near it.

It gives the insurgents no chance of targeting them. They are so far away that RPGs are ineffective, they are so far away that no sapper can get close without being seen by the 2+ squads just sitting by the APCs bombarding the cache location. They are so far away that they can see the bomb cars coming before the bombcars can even get within visual range.

That seems less like exploiting and more like good tactics from the bulfor side, the insurgents just need to try harder, which is easily possible, e.g. using red civi cars as distractions.

**Slayer816** · 07-26-2009, 11:28 AM

Ive only been involved in two; Al Basrah & Ramiel. Both situations worked extremly well. Other than taking down suicide vehicles before they got close enough, the only real threat was morters...which always hit after we departed an area because someone was always watching the timer.

Even a few base-attack rpg squads failed.

**ACOGRecon** · 07-26-2009, 11:37 AM

With all due respect to everyone who has already shared their opinion, I believe what Star was referring to was the use of the convoy tactic improperly, i.e. not staying on the move and using mobility as an advantage when needed, bunching up, etc. Using a convoy tactic is entirely realistic, but there are certain elements that are hard to reproduce on a public server. What I am trying to say by that is everyone has seen the use of convoy tactics, but in some peoples attempt to recreate that success they fail by not understanding the nature of the tactic itself.

If that's not what he was referring to then, well, this is just my $0.05.

**Belhade** · 07-26-2009, 11:39 AM

Best time I had with a full-squad convoy was on Archer, when my insurgent squad took almost the whole thing out with IEDs and RPGs.

**TechMaster21** · 07-26-2009, 12:50 PM

Originally Posted by Startrekern

The reason I love Humvees so much on (most) insurgency maps is that you can just drive full speed through an area, and if you get shot at, chances are a cache is there. Humvees are incredibly durable, fast, and can climb easy, not to mention being more than a match for a technical (or two).

That's exactly what I use humvees for and I think its very effective.

For example, on fallujah I drove a humvee straight down the main western road. We got shot at by a PKM and I caught the slightest glimpse of muzzle flash from a window. Helped us narrow down the search area and find an approximate location of the cache.

The truth is, if you dont search for caches at all and just sit back getting intel with a convoy, like cougar did with his massive convoy on ramiel, you either run out of time or tickets(We were averaging about a cache every 30 minutes after 1 hour and 30 minutes before we got our first cache) it was a lot of fun, but we never tried searching for a cache. I believe the round then ended when we ran out of tickets and we got about 4 caches(Correct me if im wrong)

I think the most effective way is to have everyone searching, and once an approximate weapon cache location is found, get another squad or 2 to help you eliminate it, then move on. Better yet, on a smaller map like fallujah, just walk through the city, and you are bound to find a cache.

**Crombo** · 07-26-2009, 12:59 PM

Originally Posted by TechMaster21

That's exactly what I use humvees for and I think its very effective.

For example, on fallujah I drove a humvee straight down the main western road. We got shot at by a PKM and I caught the slightest glimpse of muzzle flash from a window. Helped us narrow down the search area and find an approximate location of the cache.

The truth is, if you dont search for caches at all and just sit back getting intel with a convoy, like cougar did with his massive convoy on ramiel, you either run out of time or tickets(We were averaging about a cache every 30 minutes after 1 hour and 30 minutes before we got our first cache) it was a lot of fun, but we never tried searching for a cache. I believe the round then ended when we ran out of tickets and we got about 4 caches(Correct me if im wrong)

I think the most effective way is to have everyone searching, and once an approximate weapon cache location is found, get another squad or 2 to help you eliminate it, then move on. Better yet, on a smaller map like fallujah, just walk through the city, and you are bound to find a cache.

Just wanted to throw in a little something here, BOTH ways are real world tactics. Ive seen a large convoy drive bascially in circles around a town for a day to stir up currousity then the next day we took a hand full of humvees and basically just drove through town.

The idea here was that the large convoy would get any unfriendlies attention and he would report a "massive" force moving. This would then draw others to the town and the next day the Humvees would drive through town to see if we got shot at.

One of the WORST feeling Ive ever had was sitting in a humvee with the knowledge that my job is to be a target. But the higher ups in all their wisdom deemed this a valid idea.

**MarineSeaknight** · 07-26-2009, 01:02 PM

You can't say they don't work because it's already been proven that they do. I might even have to take a break from ArmA2 just to prove it again.

To be more elaborate, I've taken part in many BLUFOR Insurgency convoys and have gotten all 10 caches. We had the right guys running the convoy who knew what they were doing as well as fast squad members who were ready to move.

With that said, I've also taken part in many fail-convoys. What caused this? We didn't have as many of the things as stated above, and the convoy eventually fell apart.

So basically, while convoys can be fun, different, tactical, and actually win you the game if done correctly, there's not always a team that's up for it. Or a team who can pull it off.

Bob made a thread on Convoy Tips and Tactics a while ago that has some good info here:

http://www.tacticalgamer.com/battlef...s-etc-wip.html

**ZaBoo** · 07-26-2009, 01:05 PM

Sometimes winning isn't everything. There are many effective ways to win, that makes the experience not so much fun for others - Camping a bridge on fools road, holding down the MEC fortress on Muttrah, shooting huey rockets from the carrier, getting three machine guns and two medics in your squad, C4'ing caches through floors/walls, etc. I am sure we all have our pet peeves on stuff that can be done to help win easily within the BF2 mechanics.

Large convoys are the most impressive, tactical, realistic, and team oriented system I have seen on the TG:PR server. I would much rather see this happening, than us all trying to find out the most effective ways to get things done.

Keep the convoys rolling.

**Dreadnought** · 07-26-2009, 01:10 PM

my2cents: Speaking in absolutes may get you attention, but rarely can something be described as working or not working in all of tactics. Tactical pundits will burn me at the stake for this methinks. Best would it be to know the positives and negatives of all tactics and have neither "sacred cows" nor "off limits" strategies.

**Taip3n** · 07-26-2009, 01:15 PM

Originally Posted by Crombo

Just wanted to throw in a little something here, BOTH ways are real world tactics. Ive seen a large convoy drive bascially in circles around a town for a day to stir up currousity then the next day we took a hand full of humvees and basically just drove through town.

The idea here was that the large convoy would get any unfriendlies attention and he would report a "massive" force moving. This would then draw others to the town and the next day the Humvees would drive through town to see if we got shot at.

One of the WORST feeling Ive ever had was sitting in a humvee with the knowledge that my job is to be a target. But the higher ups in all their wisdom deemed this a valid idea.

Wish I could +rep you. Hope someone does. Glad you made it back.

**Serjikal** · 07-26-2009, 03:05 PM

If the Coalition forces are actually running a convoy setup, doesn't that make it easier for the Insurgents to do their job? With the current .86 changes, only 2 caches are going to be on the map. Split up the team to those 2 caches, set up your lanes of fire, drop the mines and grenade traps and sit tight. Obviously the convoy is going to come to one of them and when they do, you're ready. Don't see what the real fuss is with this not being "fair" to the insurgent forces, considering you have a 50/50 chance of knowing where they're coming and prepare for it before they even get there.

This is why coalition run's the massive convoys. They know the other team only has 2 points they "have" to defend, so why split the forces, when like dispo said, you can go in with overwhelming power. Then again, having that power doesnt necessarily mean you'll win, if the Insurgents are good about planning out their defense.

Insurgency only sucks if you suck. Know you're role and it can fun.

**fullkontact** · 07-26-2009, 04:26 PM

Convoys work exceptionally well, they are a great way of mobilising the entire team. The only problem is any insertions you make have to be an individual squad at another area of the map.

The only way to counter the whole convoy method is for insurgents to stay hidden and ambush. Rushing in and dying = intel points for them = more cache destroyed.

if insurgents see the enemy is using a convoy, they should inform the team to stay low and only fire when they enter the city. No point in trying to rush armour and .50's on a hill when they can just wait and abide their time.

Time is a great asset on either teams side

**Berlancic** · 07-26-2009, 04:42 PM

Originally Posted by ollie_fool

That meant to be a joke?? You can't just say convoys don't work and expect everyone to accept that, it all depends on situation, our convoys in the IWS worked fine.

When did I say that convoys didn't work?

I have no doubt of a convoy's ability.

Ok it was a joke, haha we have a laugh.

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