Re: Be Helpful Instead Of Kicking.

**AlmightyLion** · 07-31-2009, 05:30 PM

Wickens:

I have add something to my first post; I did not mean that I kick people just because they are new. I kick new people that dont lissen or not making a effort to learn, when I put down energy and time to teach. That was why I was quoting Jevski:

"Just as we are making an effort to help them, they should make an effort too, by reading the manual."

A person that makes the effort to read the manual, is a person that I feel worth puting down time and energi to teach things that is not in the book.....

**snooggums** · 07-31-2009, 05:48 PM

So you read the manual before the first time you played?

**Berlancic** · 07-31-2009, 06:27 PM

Helping and being supportive is a part of Leading, successfully. I think at least, it can help morale also. Morale works in games too.

Remember people are sharing their opinions on the topic, don't try to change it too much. If people like Lion say he wants someone to put effort in before he puts effort in to help them, that's Lion's view. Don't turn this into a flame thread.

I don't know why some people don't read the manual, I actually enjoy it.

**|TG|Bandit** · 07-31-2009, 09:12 PM

Originally Posted by snooggums

So you read the manual before the first time you played?

There was no manual back then.

But in all seriousness, I agree with AlmightyLion. If they aren't going to put in the effort to learn, I'm not going to put in the effort to teach them. Although, I'm not going to kick people who haven't read the manual, I'm just going to highly recommend it to them. 50% of the time that player leaves at that moment to go read the manual. Sometimes they don't, and if they don't leave, I just treat him like any normal grunt. Usually there's no problem, unless they don't follow orders and etc.

**NerdyDodge** · 07-31-2009, 09:31 PM

I didn't read the manual. In fact, I spent my first few minutes in PR throwing ammo bags at an AA vehicle that was requesting ammunition. I'm here now purely from learning by the example set by squads I've played with.

**AlmightyLion** · 07-31-2009, 10:09 PM

Originally Posted by snooggums

So you read the manual before the first time you played?

No, I did not and yeah, I guess its not fair against new people.

My question is; why is all the weight of this issue put on the SL shoulders, is it not 4 others in the squad that can share the weight and teach the new guy in the squad ? I think its enough with the constant pressure to need to lead a infantry squad all the time, just because others that I know are ready, dont want to step in and start leading.

**snooggums** · 07-31-2009, 10:35 PM

+rep for honesty. Most of us have forgotten what it was like to be new, and there's many more things for a new person to learn today as opposed to back in .5 or .6. I think peple learn better by being shown the basics in game, then recommended to read the manual where their in game experience will give them context for what they are reading.

I think it mainly falls on the SL because they are the leader. I have on occasion directed a SM to show a new guy how to do things when I did not have the time and that worked very well. If you don't mind sharing the lead I'd recommend having the regulars in your squad show the new guy the ropes while you keep objectives going. Think of it as you are the Squad's officer, have a Sergeant in the squad that keeps the rest in line. If you have a regular that jumps in your squad every round that you think should be SL instead, make him your sergeant and maybe he'll get some confidence to try being SL for a round.

Either that or tell them to be SL and join their squad. most times people are much better leaders than they think they are, they just need some confidence.

**Wicks** · 07-31-2009, 11:11 PM

I suppose the only positive to be drawn from some people replies is this, if the kick first attitude is your default position, then probably the new guy isn't going to learn anything of worth from you anyway. Much better he leaves your squad and gets with a decent TG squad leader.

**|TG|Bandit** · 07-31-2009, 11:37 PM

Originally Posted by A.WICKENS

I suppose the only positive to be drawn from some people replies is this, if the kick first attitude is your default position, then probably the new guy isn't going to learn anything of worth from you anyway. Much better he leaves your squad and gets with a decent TG squad leader.

What if the 'newbie' wants to fly the A-10 on his first time in PR, because he was '1337 at flying in vanilla'. Would you just tell him how to do it and then let him?

**thegreatnardini** · 07-31-2009, 11:40 PM

Originally Posted by |TG|Bandit

What if the 'newbie' wants to fly the A-10 on his first time in PR, because he was '1337 at flying in vanilla'. Would you just tell him how to do it and then let him?

If someone is in my squad they aren't going anywhere near air assets anyways. If it's something "simple" like a tank, though, that's a different story. PR is a very difficult game to learn, and helping out newer players and having patience is what will keep this game going, not just at TG but everywhere.

**MarineSeaknight** · 07-31-2009, 11:51 PM

Originally Posted by |TG|Bandit

What if the 'newbie' wants to fly the A-10 on his first time in PR, because he was '1337 at flying in vanilla'. Would you just tell him how to do it and then let him?

Some of the more team-essential assets are a different story than being in an infantry squad, for example. That would just be a special case because attack aircraft have a long respawn time and are generally more complex than say gunning in a tank or APC. This is where you'd ask him if he's got any offline experience flying it in PR, and if not then it would probably be a good idea to leave it to someone who knew how to fly it.

Overall, I find that it helps to be just a little extra patient with the new players, but be quick to identify those who are not here to learn, play, or communicate as a teamplayer.

**Slayer816** · 08-01-2009, 01:44 AM

I halfway read the manual beforehand. It was a lot of brand new information to take in. But even reading and fully comprehending the manual like it was a homework assignment is nothing compared to executing it. How many veterans continue to learn new things every day?

I didnt learn how to play by reading the manual, I learned by having patient SLs and SMs show me hands on.....as well as what happens when you dont do something the right way. That is the main reason im here today.

**Blade.3510** · 08-01-2009, 07:57 AM

its either that or they dont listen in my case im shouting the instructions like 50 times until we die

**AlmightyLion** · 08-01-2009, 08:01 AM

Originally Posted by snooggums

+rep for honesty. Most of us have forgotten what it was like to be new, and there's many more things for a new person to learn today as opposed to back in .5 or .6. I think peple learn better by being shown the basics in game, then recommended to read the manual where their in game experience will give them context for what they are reading.

I think it mainly falls on the SL because they are the leader. I have on occasion directed a SM to show a new guy how to do things when I did not have the time and that worked very well. If you don't mind sharing the lead I'd recommend having the regulars in your squad show the new guy the ropes while you keep objectives going. Think of it as you are the Squad's officer, have a Sergeant in the squad that keeps the rest in line. If you have a regular that jumps in your squad every round that you think should be SL instead, make him your sergeant and maybe he'll get some confidence to try being SL for a round.

Either that or tell them to be SL and join their squad. most times people are much better leaders than they think they are, they just need some confidence.

You are right, I have forgot how it was to be new. But I have to say that 8/10 times I do to teach the new guy as much as a can, while he is my squad (even tho I come out as not doing it, in this thread..which is my own fault). The other times I just cant, because its getting my squad killed, due to me not being able to pay attention to whats happening and I may miss the intel from my squadmembers/chat/TS, about enemy movments ect. Usally what I do then, is to tell the new guy to follow us,stick close to us and shoot at the things we shoot at.

But, like I said earlier; when I new guy is not trying to pay attention when Im trying to teach him new important things, it will result with me kicking him. I just think its really disrespectful by him.

I think the best way to get understand the basic of PR is; play a couple of rounds, read the manual, play some more rounds and then read it once more, just to get it to stick. Having a SL to show you during your first rounds, just makes things better.

**Wicks** · 08-01-2009, 08:52 AM

Originally Posted by |TG|Bandit

What if the 'newbie' wants to fly the A-10 on his first time in PR, because he was '1337 at flying in vanilla'. Would you just tell him how to do it and then let him?

Originally Posted by thegreatnardini

If someone is in my squad they aren't going anywhere near air assets anyways. If it's something "simple" like a tank, though, that's a different story. PR is a very difficult game to learn, and helping out newer players and having patience is what will keep this game going, not just at TG but everywhere.

To echo Nardini, I don't run asset squads, maybe tanking about once a month but that's about it. They don't interest me. So I would tell the sm we were an infantry squad and nobody in my squad is taking any assets. I would then tell him he can, per our rules, take an asset if it has not been assigned by our commander but point out that the assets cost tickets and can harm a team if lost. I may even advise him of any asset squads that are set up and advise him to request an invite, suggesting it may be the best way for him to go about it.

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