Buzzing Topics on the realitymod forums

[Jeepo]

This is because the pilots become bored. Give them something extra to do!

It obviously isn't "wasting time" for said pilot if he's randomly flying around because no one needs him.

That is crap reasoning, some of the worst I have ever seen.

If they are bored enough not to attempt some realism where the game engine actually does not limit your actions then they should do it. If not, like I say there are other communities out there they can go and annoy.

If this was an attempt at sarcasm then you should know that sarcasm does not translate well in writing.

Soooo, thats another failed attempt to try to defend the "poor helpless bored" pilot, of course that includes yourself in that list, as you are one of our chief asset whores.

[snooggums]

This idea that another air asset should be sent to the area that the first air asset got shot down at is awesome. Why can't I come up with ideas like that?

[d1sp0sabl3H3r0]

That is crap reasoning, some of the worst I have ever seen.

If they are bored enough not to attempt some realism where the game engine actually does not limit your actions then they should do it. If not, like I say there are other communities out there they can go and annoy.

If this was an attempt at sarcasm (which I highly doubt with your record) then you should know that sarcasm does not translate well in writing.

Soooo, thats another failed attempt to try to defend the "poor helpless bored" pilot, of course that includes yourself in that list, as you are one of our chief asset whores.

Alright, that's enough of that. The discussion is now changing from just that, a discussion, into personal attacks and it is simply not necessary.


On topic:

Can anyone please explain why it is the pilot that is special? Last time I checked, a tank was worth just as many tickets as a jet and is on a 20 minute spawn timer, same as the jet. Should the crew of a tank be valued the same as the pilot?

As far as bored pilots go, that argument simply falls on deaf ears. Last time I checked, no one forces anyone to be a pilot. Being bored in the main waiting for a mission is part of the job description as far as I'm concerned. If a player doesn't like waiting in the main so he can be ready when needed to assist his team then perhaps they should grab their rifle and some ammo and get moving toward the front lines. There's always plenty of action there.

[Startrekern]

That is crap reasoning, some of the worst I have ever seen.

If they are bored enough not to attempt some realism where the game engine actually does not limit your actions then they should do it. If not, like I say there are other communities out there they can go and annoy.

If this was an attempt at sarcasm then you should know that sarcasm does not translate well in writing.

Soooo, thats another failed attempt to try to defend the "poor helpless bored" pilot, of course that includes yourself in that list, as you are one of our chief asset whores.

I wasn't really being sarcastic. A pilot should not be bored enough that he flies around randomly; If that's the case, he just shouldn't be in the chopper anyway because it's obviously not needed and would be better suited on the ground. I wasn't trying to defend the 'poor helpless bored' pilot, because personally when I fly I am never bored, because I'm usually needed. When I'm not needed, I don't fly.

As for being an asset whore, I fully admit to that. I enjoy doing a variety of things on maps and am not going to limit myself to running an infantry combat squad (which I actually do more often than taking assets..) just because some people think I'm bad at using the asset or because they think I do it too much. When I do use the assets, I'm there to have fun and do what I feel I'm best at on that map, not do what I'm worst at and be miserable. I don't usually fly jets because, although I can, I don't feel that I'm very good at it. On Kashan, if it's 64, I always either do Armor or Infantry, depending on what other squads exist in the first place and who's in them. If it's 32, I freely admit to typically flying Apaches or Havoks, because I find that to be one of the most enjoyable experiences in the game. If someone else is already doing that, I'll go Infantry or Armor, just like in 64, depending on what the team needs more. The last time I flew a transport helicopter was over a month and a half ago on Jabal Al Burj, that I can remember. I was the only one that survived the entire round.

So calling me an asset whore purely with Jets and Transports is completely inaccurate, because those are the things I use the least and the things which this suggestion details. (Not to mention the fact that with Attack and Transport helicopters, there ALREADY exists an incentive and a method to get out of the vehicle before it goes kablooey.)

Can anyone please explain why it is the pilot that is special? Last time I checked, a tank was worth just as many tickets as a jet and is on a 20 minute spawn timer, same as the jet. Should the crew of a tank be valued the same as the pilot?

The Pilot is unique in that he has absolutely no way to defend himself. The crew of an armored vehicle can easily be converted into an infantry squad with nearly no problem instantly; a pilot is just a sitting duck.

The tank crew can survive the destruction of their vehicle, but more often than not a pilot cannot.

All my proposal was for was giving some incentive for Jet pilots to actually attempt to save themselves. and to make Jets so that the pilot has time to get out before it crashes. It was not meant to give bored transport pilots something extra to do (Although that is a good side effect) nor is it intended to be a hassle for the team.

If the pilot dies, too bad; you've lost the same amount of tickets you would normally if the jet was shot down. If he survives, that's one more ticket (or five) closer to victory.

[Dirtboy]

As far as bored pilots go, that argument simply falls on deaf ears. Last time I checked, no one forces anyone to be a pilot. Being bored in the main waiting for a mission is part of the job description as far as I'm concerned. If a player doesn't like waiting in the main so he can be ready when needed to assist his team then perhaps they should grab their rifle and some ammo and get moving toward the front lines. There's always plenty of action there.

I totally agree with you on this Dispo! Annie...grab your GUN!!

[Dirtboy]

Stay on topic Gentlemen! (and the few Ladies).

I do not want to lock this thread because I enjoy the CIVILIZED discussions that the PR forums lack.

[d1sp0sabl3H3r0]

All my proposal was for was giving some incentive for Jet pilots to actually attempt to save themselves

Here lies the problem. Why give a player more value so they feel compelled to stay alive? Shouldn't they already have that mindset, anyway? I know I do, and I'm only worth 1 ticket no matter what job I have on the field.

Unarmed? Hardly. They are rather well armed until their vehicle is destroyed, having the ability to kill anything on the map, and in large quantities, with a high probability of success (if skilled).

. and to make Jets so that the pilot has time to get out before it crashes.

Nah. Death should be rather instantaneous. You're sitting on top of thousands of pounds of highly flammable jet fuel going hundreds of miles an hour in a vehicle that will rip itself to shreds when it's aerodynamics are spoiled - like when a wing gets blown off. It's just not your day.

[Startrekern]

Here lies the problem. Why give a player more value so they feel compelled to stay alive? Shouldn't they already have that mindset, anyway? I know I do, and I'm only worth 1 ticket no matter what job I have on the field.

Unarmed? Hardly. They are rather well armed until their vehicle is destroyed, having the ability to kill anything on the map, and in large quantities, with a high probability of success (if skilled).



Nah. Death should be rather instantaneous. You're sitting on top of thousands of pounds of highly flammable jet fuel going hundreds of miles an hour in a vehicle that will rip itself to shreds when it's aerodynamics are spoiled - like when a wing gets blown off. It's just not your day.

I can see your point, but even without making the Jet pilot more valuable, if I were flying a jet, I personally would like to be able to have both the time and ability to eject before my plane exploded into billions of tiny pieces or crashed into the ground (Like helicopter pilots can do).


I found this, and am not sure of it's accuracy, but:

1- What is the fastest ejection on record?

Although this seems to be an easy question, looks can be deceiving. 'How fast' is an imprecise question as it can be answered in several ways, for example: speed over ground, Knots Indicated Air Speed (KIAS), Knots Equivalent Air Speed (KEAS) and so forth. For example, some SR-71 pilots are rumored to have ejected at speeds of Mach 3 at 80,000 feet. This is a ground speed of around 2000 miles per hour, yet due to the thinner atmosphere at that altitude, the speed is closer to 400 KEAS. That is more like a 460 miles per hour. An F-15E pilot survived an ejection at a very small ground speed as he was traveling almost straight down in a spin, yet he was traveling at 780 MPH. This is over 1.6 times faster in equivalent air speed. Another difficulty with answering this question is determining the exact speed. Since most ejections occur in situations that are changing rapidly, it is difficult to get an exact speed of the ejection. Most ejection speeds are calculated values based on the recollections of the crewman, and what little evidence survives the aircraft's destruction. This can lead to very imprecise numbers. In the first known case of a man surviving a supersonic ejection, George Smith(IIRC will be verified) ejected from an F-100 Super Sabre in a dive. It was known that he ejected supersonically due to eyewitnesses who heard and saw the ejection from nearby based on the sounds of the sonic booms and the visual clues of the crash.

Ejection should be possible at the speeds the jets in Project Reality travel.

[snooggums]

Ejection should be possible at the speeds the jets in Project Reality travel.

Check out the Already Suggested Suggestions on the main PR site, ejection seats are not possible due to BF2 hardcoding last I checked.

[Taip3n]

My view runs in conjunction with those that believe the point system is good as it stands. That is, 1 point is good enough for a player and various points for machines, these increasing in amount by the perceived increase in 'value' of the machine. In other words, I disagree that a pilot should be worth 10 points, to me it makes no sense and the machine is the one with value, in the game. But I do agree the points system needs reviewing, as other parts of the game.

About damaged aircraft I think what is more needed is a look at the ‘damage effect’ on aircraft. We know this is not resolved, like the ‘invincible rocket huey’. Nowadays, I never see a helicopter fight to maintain descent in a crash landing, or limping back to base with a rudder out. I say this as I remember a time it was great to fight with a damaged little-bird back to the Mutrah carrier (for example). Some other piloting skills was involved- even more so if the chopper was loaded with troops.

To me the whole general scoring system needs looking at, like the ‘teamplay’ score system, ‘flag defend or capture’, driving about in ‘armour’, building, fighting etc etc. It is not telling of the gameplay, full stop. I find it incredulous, for example, someone mooching about in a piece of armour can massively move past an infantry squad in recognition of ‘points’, when the squad has played their hearts out all game, and this armour squad appears in the last part of the game.

Anyway, the point is the scoring system needs a big look at and made properly. A final word on this is for me, as an aside but in relation to points, I would like to see an increase in points deduction for machines like APCs.

As described about ‘aircraft damage’ and the points of a machine, I feel the real issue comes with the Devs looking at re-implementing a higher likelihood of rotor/ruder loss or anything like this, so the pilot can fight to return the aircraft safely, or make a safe crash landing so’s the aircraft is salvageable. Not only was it fun but you felt responsibility, and some skill in this. The heli was worth it (especially with infantry on board). As for jets, well it would be nice to think this possible aswell - well, at least make it back to base maybe crash-landing on the airstrip or a long enough piece of road, or doom; damage and situation dictating.

Then perhaps, a decision to risk a truck out or an APC, or squad to save the ship may be an idea, like when I seem to remember we used to send engineers out into the field to try and fix it, so rewarding the efforts of the pilot. Though I may be imagining that I think that used to happen. Of course a roving enemy patrol could come but the pilot had a pistol as a last resort. Perhaps, if anything, some value needs to be implied here, but I fear it is not the pilot that has value.

If not playable or possible, though, I would suggest that saluting as the ship goes down be the answer. And as others said, if you have nothing to do a while, grab a gun and come fight at the front. However, this was how I seem to remember PR was like, and would not mind this sort of application back into the game for 'depth' reasons.

I hope that reasons out some issues about game-play depth. To me, PR had a lot of this depth where-as now some blank desolation of crispness has over taken it. It feels like air, and cold, instead of a warmth to a game but perhaps other issues like kills by headshots, hipshots, full auto blast clips run out by two opponents and a knife fight in a room begins, than the thump thump thump of yet another Bradley (or mindless AA uberbullets), or the cold shot from nowhere and the hit boxes are no good anyway, need to be re-implimented and addressed. There is a bleakness to PR at the moment. I like the guns and representation but it’s how it seems for me anyway and in a gaming sense, some ‘flesh’ needs re-implementing. Some ideas, for this flesh, is what I put forward in this post, and in relation to the topic as it is part of it.

[Celestial1]

Just to make it clear for those 'curious as to why only the well-known pilots' are arguing this change...

(1) It's startrekern's idea, and that's why he's arguing for it.
(2) I believe it's a decent idea (while, don't get me wrong, I don't think pilots need that extra importance; the only thing I truly support is jets recieving a disabled effect like helicopters recieved, which is my own suggestion posted here by the way). Startrekern is vastly outnumbered in this discussion, unfortunately, so I was trying to help argue his point a bit. I don't necessarily full-well agree with it, especially in a scenario where the pilot is worth the full 10 tickets, but I think that it's an idea that could be worked upon.

As far as we need be concerned, the only one who is backing this is Startrekern, who came up with the idea. I'm just fostering his creativity, as it were. I'm on neither side of this debate myself, just attempting to give Startrekern a bit of backing force. Now that he's actually in the debate, I'll let him take over.

I'll only be posting new topics, or responding to posts that are in regards to something I have said/posted.

[Jeepo]

To try and get this back on topic, that is to say about raising idea threads on the PR forums, I would suggest we look into bringing back one hit kills. Headshots, .50 kills, heat rounds in close proximity etc. To me far more pressing than some idea to give pilots more worth than the kit that makes them important.....

[Googol]

I've noticed a lot of discussion about a new RP system and I agree that the current one needs fixing. The RP isn't really an RP at this point as people never rally to it. As others have said, an RP should act as a place for the squad to regroup and allow the downed squad members to respawn. Maybe make it so that the RP automatically dissapears after 2 min when you set it (I think someone suggested this in another thread somewhere).

[Celestial1]

To try and get this back on topic, that is to say about raising idea threads on the PR forums, I would suggest we look into bringing back one hit kills. Headshots, .50 kills, heat rounds in close proximity etc. To me far more pressing than some idea to give pilots more worth than the kit that makes them important.....

I've always been iffy on headshots. Personally, I would love it if it didn't cause the 'AIM FOR THE HEAD' syndrome, which it previously did, a lot.

If aiming for the center mass was the rule of thumb for more PR players, I would love headshots to be reimplemented (Sniper + Headshot = Actual death = Squad ****s themselves and actually heads for cover)

As for .50 kills, I believe .50 headshots currently are instant kills... I wouldn't mind seeing .50 shots to the chest causing an instant kill. Basically, if that .50 is around, it's best that you stay out WAY of it's way.

As for HEAT rounds, I would suggest a very close shot is instant death, whereas in the area outside a distance causes a critical wound. Encourages spacing, and just overall not making yourself a target.

I've noticed a lot of discussion about a new RP system and I agree that the current one needs fixing. The RP isn't really an RP at this point as people never rally to it. As others have said, an RP should act as a place for the squad to regroup and allow the downed squad members to respawn. Maybe make it so that the RP automatically dissapears after 2 min when you set it (I think someone suggested this in another thread somewhere).

Rally point suggestion

I back this one, needing 2 members of your squad is a good way to encourage retreating when the odds aren't in your favor.

However, instead I think that a '1/3' of the squad (or the nearest rounded up) is required to start the effect. This way, a 2 man squad needs 1 man on a rally (Sniper/Spotter team? One of you gets sniped, then the other gets back and heads for rally to get his buddy back in) etc.

On the other side of things, it encourages pursuit by fire to stop them getting back safely. It also allows the enemy squad to push forward on the objective while the squad is forced to retreat.

[Taip3n]

I like the 'instant kill' effect, and headshots, and believe they should be re-implemented as Jeepo suggests. Though I believe these are linked with other serious issues:

My experience was that the player had a choice at a faceoff and mili-seconds were critical: either aim 3 shots to the chest, or go for the headshot.

It took a certain skill to aim the headshot to beat the 'more probable' hit the larger mass but in more time needed body shot. This was why you saw people trying to get the third (body) shot in before the other alot. It still required nerve to hit three times because if you missed, the chances you were done for. Still people plumbed for the body shots that took time as it was more likely to hit target - and as it was even more nerves of steel and skill required to pause, aim and shoot the head under that stress.

It worked.

However this is in conjunction with other issues – Hitboxes, are critical (head, body, limbs -imagine feeling lucky Jeepo's .50 only took your arm off), alongside the issue of weapons such as aiming, timing, recoil, and 'perfection' and 'harmony with the weapon' - that both absolutley needs looking into.

I used to be proud of my (self-perceived but hopefully perceived by others) status of being a dangerous opponent, skilled at such combat described. Now I can't even hit someone ~50metres away in the head, after I have been staring down my - telescopic- sights for 4-5 seconds and they not knowing I'm there, let alone a running target or some guy facing me off at a longer/shorter distance not moving, standing, crouching, prone, or jumping for cover.

Something is amiss... And I believe these issues are absolutely essential in (re) addressing and overcoming as these are the heart beat of the game and should be prioritised as an almost 1st law principle on every development, to create the flesh back into the game. It seems the old problems never went away, they were just deviated from, and because these were never addressed though hard to do, it has eroded something of the game to its core.