View Poll Results: Should a CO have the right to ask an admin to kick if a chopper is up without orders?

**snooggums** · 08-14-2009, 03:48 PM

Originally Posted by gijoe

I can see how it would make sense. Ive seen lots of hueys flying around on muttrah for no reason only to be shot down. But technically.....it wouldnt be fair to make something like this apply strictly to the pilots. What about the fail tankers that rush full nme armor colomns? Or the infantry squad that goes 4:60 as a k/d? Thats all a waste of tickets when it comes down to it.

Commanders can restrict kits and assets in any way they see fit, if they order APCs and Tanks to stay at main it is their choice. That is already in effect with the current chain of command rules.

**Startrekern** · 08-14-2009, 03:48 PM

Originally Posted by snooggums

If you want to be an ass (I admit I did this once) to players who demand to be invited into the asset squad and hops into one to kind of take it hostage invite the player into the squad as they requested. Once in the squad order the player to get out of the chopper and have a talk about how the number of choppers is not needed and suggest he be in another infantry squad until one of the current pilots leaves or does something else and then he can join the flight squad. If he joins your squad, you order him out of the chopper and he ignores your order and does his own thing you can report him for disobeying squad leader orders.

Yeah, that's the tough bit. But! If, after that nice friendly conversation they still insist on flying, it'd be better to keep them in the squad rather than kicking them, which will result in crashes, deaths, and general other horrible things.

Delta*RandyShugart* · 08-14-2009, 03:54 PM

Originally Posted by Amdak

Yes, he should and does have the right to do so. But if the pilot wants to do something it would be more productive to order him to do something where he gets to fly a bit and risk the helicopter as little as possible.
Transport helicopters are of course not included since those usually have no role outside transporting players and supplies, but even those can be used to create small resupply zones that arent likely to be in the line sight of hostile players.

Its still a game, the commander seat is still just a player position. Cant say i understand players that take their word as COs as absolute, try to compromise a bit with players and only if that fails refuse their actions. It would make this entire issue far less annoying for both sides.

If the player wants to do something and if the CO doesn't want helicopters in the air, get a SL kit, get riflemen kits, medic, saw, + a LAT or something like that (the new standard kit layout, actually allow squads like these to be able to allocate kits and get into the ground battle) and go cap/defend/a flag.

If the pilot just wants to fly around, there are several training servers that allow that to take place. Yes its just a game, but feeling entitled to fly because you are a transport helicopter squad isn't what playing at TG is all about.

If a SL isn't taking my word or other CO's words as absolute then amdak i'd re-read the rules and the primer.

Or suggest a route for the CO, but flying around needlessly in the end will only cost tickets + pilot, or infantry tickets.

**Dreadnought** · 08-14-2009, 03:56 PM

There should be a thread that, whenever someone makes a thread like this one where they don't mention names but say "those people know who they are", they then go to that other thread and list all those names. Kinda like a key, or name bank. That way, I won't wet myself wondering if I'm who they were thinking of and never mentioned.

Only people who make a thread that gets over a page are allowed to make one post in this other thread. We'll name it "Ooooh SNAP! NO HE DINEN'!"

This would reduce drama and calm everyone down, having removed all speculation.

Delta*RandyShugart* · 08-14-2009, 04:00 PM

Originally Posted by gijoe

But technically.....it wouldnt be fair to make something like this apply strictly to the pilots. What about the fail tankers that rush full nme armor colomns? Or the infantry squad that goes 4:60 as a k/d? Thats all a waste of tickets when it comes down to it.

It is fair, but also keep in mind that jeepo is just using this poll as an example for transport pilots in this case.

instead of pilots and helicopters insert crewman and apc's/tanks. and its the same thread.

Not to go completely off topic, but the SL who is doing something like that will easily be noticed by the CO and enforcing a "don't give up policy/spawn" and changing his route usually does the trick.

Now back to the topic.

**Amdak** · 08-14-2009, 05:00 PM

Originally Posted by Delta*RandyShugart*

If the player wants to do something and if the CO doesn't want helicopters in the air, get a SL kit, get riflemen kits, medic, saw, + a LAT or something like that (the new standard kit layout, actually allow squads like these to be able to allocate kits and get into the ground battle) and go cap/defend/a flag.

Ignoring your expectations for a single player to use 5 kits at the same time...

Originally Posted by Delta*RandyShugart*

If the pilot just wants to fly around, there are several training servers that allow that to take place. Yes its just a game, but feeling entitled to fly because you are a transport helicopter squad isn't what playing at TG is all about.

Heres the thing that it seems like everyone ignores in this thread, sometimes the players in the helicopters want to help the team and they dont think that sitting at the main achieves much. Instead of explaining or trying to reach some sort of a compromise whoever in the commander seat just shoots down anything they might say.

Originally Posted by Delta*RandyShugart*

If a SL isn't taking my word or other CO's words as absolute then amdak i'd re-read the rules and the primer.

Im not saying they should ignore the commander, thats why i said that the commander should and can have the right to ask an admin to boot said player(s). Im just saying that people should keep their manners even when playing as the commander, remember that its just a game, maybe take a deep breath if its that bad and simply try to give somewhat impatient players something almost risk-free to do instead of making them even more impatient once theyre told to something by telling them to sit around and stare at the virtual ground/wall/etc.

Impatient players using helicopters/jets/etc is an entirely different subject. Im presuming that this entire discussion is for when you need to work with who you have rather than who you wish you had.

Delta*RandyShugart* · 08-14-2009, 05:12 PM

Originally Posted by Amdak

Ignoring your expectations for a single player to use 5 kits at the same time...

I haven't come across a one man transport squad ever on a pr server.

So I will clarify my original point.

Example: 4 players in a transport helo squad. Helo's are grounded per the CO orders.

1. SL of the squad obtains the SL kit
2. Player 2 obtains the medic kit
3 Player 3 obtains the AR Kit
4. Player 4 obtains a lat, grenadier, riflemen ammo, specialist, etc.
5. Player 5 does the same as Player 4. - if there are 5 players in a transport helo squad.

Now you have an infantry squad, that can a) be transporting via APC, or spawn at a FB. B) take a boat to a location if on the USS ESSEX, or a vehicle if you are at the main.

If you are a helo pilot and are impatient that you cannot fly if it isn't needed then by all means stare at a wall, i've witnessed players do just that, i've witnessed players spawn at the carrier and demand to be transported to their squad, and after the impatient helo SL tells me this I say, "well his SL told him not to spawn at the carrier he can swim or take a boat."

I play competitively for fun, and I don't like being talked down to as much as the next player, and i rarely talk down to players, when I am CO, most of the regular CO's rarely talk down to players as well, if you try and push the CO's buttons yes u will get a negative response, same thing if you are in class and don't raise your hand or if you are in a meeting and just decide to blurt out your opinion instead of waiting for someone to stop talking.

It's life.

*You* - Isn't directed at one person, its being used as everyone in general.

If you wish to be a transport helicopter pilot in a helo squad than you have to understand that when there is a CO he most likely will not give you free range of the map, you might be asked to stay at the carrier, and A) man up and become a small infantry squad until supplies are needed or b) vacate the helo's and stand still on the carrier.

I'm not trying to be rude to u amdak, and please if I am CO suggest in a polite manner any suggestions you have to me or another CO but don't get your feathers ruffled/take it as a put down if it is taken into consideration but you are not allowed to implement them.

**Belhade** · 08-14-2009, 05:23 PM

Originally Posted by gijoe

I can see how it would make sense. Ive seen lots of hueys flying around on muttrah for no reason only to be shot down. But technically.....it wouldnt be fair to make something like this apply strictly to the pilots. What about the fail tankers that rush full nme armor colomns? Or the infantry squad that goes 4:60 as a k/d? Thats all a waste of tickets when it comes down to it.

A CO can reign in these ineffective elements as well. "Ground" the armor by keeping the tanks in base to prevent losing them. Assign the myopic infantry squad to defend a position (K/D ratios don't always reflect a squad's usefulness). If these orders are ignored, then it's cause for admin action.

**Wicks** · 08-14-2009, 05:32 PM

Err there is no compromise in the chain of command, it's that simple.

Co doesn't tell you when to reload etc you don't argue with the CO about the deployment of his assets. If somebody has gone to the trouble of stepping up as Co you follow their orders or you don't stay at TG. I realise that doesn't cover situations where there is no CO but it does cover situations where there is. If we have a Co you do as you're damn well told, end of argument. You can make a polite suggestion if you have an idea but that's it, if the CO reiterates the order you follow it. None of this, oh well if they want to fly blah blah blah. Any CO order, is just that, an order.

**Superfast** · 08-14-2009, 05:38 PM

CO issues orders, orders not followed should be reported to the admins and dealt with accordingly.

**Wicks** · 08-14-2009, 05:40 PM

We have plenty of rules about asset wastage, following CO orders, team-work, realism etc. What doesn't suprise me and is most disappointing about our airborne community is that it seems to need or want a seperate set of rules/game mechanics etc to the rest of the server.

Is there a more damning indictment of how self centered your play style is, how out of touch you are with the rest of the server, than the fact that you are actually asking/appear to need special treatment.

'shaking head in disbelief'

**Havok** · 08-14-2009, 06:34 PM

I say yes, hell we already have a rule that states you must obey CO orders. If someone does not obey a CO's orders of keeping the choppers out of the air, then that person deserves 1 warning to rtb. After that 1 warning, its immediate kick, if they're stupid enough to retun and still fly, then a ban for 24 hours.

**orpal** · 08-14-2009, 07:03 PM

I don't know why should we even try to make things interesting for them ( provinding with missions). Although I do admit I was/am piloting I say after you dropped inf/crates, go infanatry! If I'm CO I'm ordering just that. Don't worry, infantry will make a FB on mainland and you become useless ( you will be called to fly again if that gets destroyed (very unlikley)). Instead of flying around loosing tickets, try to help the team. Only two transport choppers are needed at the start of the round, once troopes are deployed only 1 is needed. You'll find that conastat action with INF is alot more fun that waiting on the carrier for a crate drop, then flying straight into unreported AA and picking your nose untill the next chopper spawns. No one ever told me that, but once I realized that I've got a whole different perspective.
Take my advice.

P.S. :I do know that this will never work since newcomers always spawn back in main instead on actual battlefield.But we'll leave that for another time.

*I've voted yes even if I disagree with waiting in main thing

**Skud** · 08-14-2009, 10:57 PM

I have another idea.

Automate pilots. No need for vehicle drama with AI!

**brettwad** · 08-14-2009, 11:01 PM

This is a game!!!!

But, the rules are to be followed so if you are not obeying the commander, then there should be some repercussions.

But, a commander also has to have respect for the people under him too, it is a game. You have to give respect to gain respect and also realize not all players are of the same caliber. So if you need to take a breath or blow up every once in a while that's OK as commander but don't berate or call names. I've heard it, enough said.

Pilots have to be a little more patient with their game play and they should also be allowed to question commander and SL, even refuse if they are not given a sitrep for a drop. The commander should also be telling his SL's that if no sitrep is given then no supplies or reinforcements.

This is pretty clear, just follow the rules and expect repercussions if you do not.

View Poll Results: Should a CO have the right to ask an admin to kick if a chopper is up without orders?

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