View Poll Results: Should a CO have the right to ask an admin to kick if a chopper is up without orders?

**Jeepo** · 08-14-2009, 02:28 PM

This thread is happening in response to this thread:

http://www.tacticalgamer.com/battlef...ml#post1335739

Basically the reason for this is to try to introduce a little good manners, common sense, teamwork and realism into the asset whoring pilots we have here at TG.

Some pointers first though:

1. This is NOT a bashing thread. They can whore all they want. We all know who they are, we all know which of them are good and which are not. We all know when to laugh at them and when to groan knowing they will crash and blame lag.

2. This is not an attempt to create a new rule. No one likes additional rules, especially ones that will not be enforcable and will give the admins a headache.

So what is this for? Not really sure, but is will bring it to peoples consciousness and maybe help out the quality of play. Too many times I have seen maps lost due to stupid pilots, crashing, losing team mobility and tickets. Think Muttrah, Quinling, Kashan. Also maybe, just maybe it will make those whores think before claiming their spots, allowing other (usually more talented but generous players) to take the role. Maybe they will get bored because they can't go around trying to get kills all day, instead having to help the teams.....

So how about we keep it simple.

1. Should a CO have the right to ask an admin to kick if a chopper is in the air without his order?

This will save time when the request comes in, save tickets and be more realistic.

2. Should there be a way of "calling out" stupid pilots who refuse to sit and wait for requests/orders instead choosing to fly around like blind great bustards.

Not so keen on this one but it will be asked somewhere so I figured I should put it in.

So ideas, thoughts?

**snooggums** · 08-14-2009, 02:39 PM

No need for special rules:

11. Orders

All players are required to follow orders. Squad Leaders are required to follow reasonable orders from their Commander, and all players must follow Squad Leader orders.

If a commander has grounded or told the choppers to remain at main then they are not following orders if they are out and about. Grounding pilots is never unreasonable. I voted yes because I agree with the current system.

**Jeepo** · 08-14-2009, 02:53 PM

Yeah, just to reinforce my reasoning, this is not some attempt to change things, just make it more widely known that a problem exists, and maybe make the ones responsible for the problem stay on the ground even without a CO, using common sense courtesy and teamwork.

**fullkontact** · 08-14-2009, 02:54 PM

100% agree with snoogums. Follow CO orders, stay in the rules. If they say grounded, it's grounded. If they say no assets leave main base, you start walking. xD

**Startrekern** · 08-14-2009, 02:56 PM

Yes. An actual gameplay server isn't for random flight. I go to a training server if I just want to fool around in the air.

--

A side note:

When I do fly, I find that a good way to organize transport helicopters is to have them sitting, literally, in a line on the carrier/runway (If the runway's not being used for planes, I.E. Kashan 32). When one goes on a mission, he returns to park at the back of the queue and stays there until it's his turn. Or else! (Dun Dun Dunnnnnnn)

**snooggums** · 08-14-2009, 03:11 PM

Originally Posted by Startrekern

When I do fly, I find that a good way to organize transport helicopters is to have them sitting, literally, in a line on the carrier/runway (If the runway's not being used for planes, I.E. Kashan 32). When one goes on a mission, he returns to park at the back of the queue and stays there until it's his turn.

If you have a 'line' of waiting helicopters for more than 5 minutes at a time you have too many people flying. Every map I can think of with more than two transport choppers, Barracuda and Muttrah, barely need two in service after the main force has landed and set up a fire base (two for a double crate drop run). Wouldn't it be better to have the extra pilots go join another squad? I assume two pilots can simply have their own spot to sit and have the SL decide who makes runs.

As a follow up, if all four pilots are needed at the beginning and two choppers are parked afterwards, the unused choppers should be parked along the open area where the choppers don't spawn since people rarely remember where they started at and a re-spawning chopper will kill one sitting on the spawn point. It's also nice to have the non-SL pilot make the majority of the runs so the SL can keep open comms with the commander and be able to mark changes on the map to the flight plan without distraction the majority of the time.

**Startrekern** · 08-14-2009, 03:18 PM

Originally Posted by snooggums

If you have a 'line' of waiting helicopters for more than 5 minutes at a time you have too many people flying. Every map I can think of with more than two transport choppers, Barracuda and Muttrah, barely need two in service after the main force has landed and set up a fire base (two for a double crate drop run). Wouldn't it be better to have the extra pilots go join another squad? I assume two pilots can simply have their own spot to sit and have the SL decide who makes runs.

As a follow up, if all four pilots are needed at the beginning and two choppers are parked afterwards, the unused choppers should be parked along the open area where the choppers don't spawn since people rarely remember where they started at and a re-spawning chopper will kill one sitting on the spawn point. It's also nice to have the non-SL pilot make the majority of the runs so the SL can keep open comms with the commander and be able to mark changes on the map to the flight plan without distraction the majority of the time.

Typically, unless there's a commander, it's better to let the people use the helicopters and keep them in your squad where you can control them rather than forcing them to stay out of the squad because you don't want them using the choppers when there's no commander about, which usually results in them making their own squad to fly the choppers anyway where you have less control over them. (In my opinion.)

Delta*RandyShugart* · 08-14-2009, 03:19 PM

Yes.

I agree with the poll question, SL's also have to take it upon themselves to make sure that players in their squad change their spawn points as well, many times as CO on transport helo maps I have seen squad members spawn at the carrier or main hop in a transport and type in team chat to be dropped off here, and when I tell the transport helo pilots not to move until their SL confirms it with me, and lets me know what the LZ area is like, i will immediately see a gripe from a squad member micro-manage the situation.

It is important for the Helo pilots to confirm all helo transport movements, (armor assets as well but that's another thread for another time) even if a request of supplies is asked, and then the SL asking for supplies etc must confirm it with the CO.

IMHO Same goes for Hydra Helo's and attack helo's, yes the easy way could be to just talk on ts or mumble to the hydra or attack helo pilots but going the extra step and alerting the CO and giving him an update is the proper move, it may take a little more time but in the end it can actually save tickets.

The rules are the rules, pretty straight forward, easy to comprehend and fair at the same time.

Common sense is a pretty easy subject to grasp even if you don't have any.

**Startrekern** · 08-14-2009, 03:23 PM

Originally Posted by Delta*RandyShugart*

Yes.

I agree with the poll question, SL's also have to take it upon themselves to make sure that players in their squad change their spawn points as well, many times as CO on transport helo maps I have seen squad members spawn at the carrier or main hop in a transport and type in team chat to be dropped off here, and when I tell the transport helo pilots not to move until their SL confirms it with me, and lets me know what the LZ area is like, i will immediately see a gripe from a squad member micro-manage the situation.

It is important for the Helo pilots to confirm all helo transport movements, (armor assets as well but that's another thread for another time) even if a request of supplies is asked, and then the SL asking for supplies etc must confirm it with the CO.

IMHO Same goes for Hydra Helo's and attack helo's, yes the easy way could be to just talk on ts or mumble to the hydra or attack helo pilots but going the extra step and alerting the CO and giving him an update is the proper move, it may take a little more time but in the end it can actually save tickets.

Agreed. Although it's important not to remove the direct communication between the pilot and the person calling in the strike, because if the pilot is nearly there and you have to abort the strike for some reason (I.E. you just realized there were 3 AAVs sitting in the path of the aircraft or your squad is in the place the strike was called in) time is of the essence. Using the commander is good, but it's also important to keep a line of direct communication open for such things.

**chrisweb89** · 08-14-2009, 03:25 PM

I completely agree with this whether its that aircraft are grounded permanently or just till they have a mission. Whatever commander says must be followed.

**llPANCHOll** · 08-14-2009, 03:32 PM

I have an Idea.. Perhaps put the pilot kit on the same spawn timer as the Chopper.. 20 minutes is it?? This would give them some inspiration to not get shot down. Die and you cant get another pilot kit for 20 minutes after your first one is issued.

Of course this wont work, and Im not confident that there is any way to effectivly get people to play in a way that allways benefits the team.

Its hard to get an infantry squad to hold their firing positions while defending a position, its hard to get a pilot to wait at main, we live in a "NOW" world where people are used to getting instant gratification whenever they want it. I blame McDonalds and Internet Porn.

Delta*RandyShugart* · 08-14-2009, 03:35 PM

Originally Posted by Startrekern

Agreed. Although it's important not to remove the direct communication between the pilot and the person calling in the strike, because if the pilot is nearly there and you have to abort the strike for some reason (I.E. you just realized there were 3 AAVs sitting in the path of the aircraft or your squad is in the place the strike was called in) time is of the essence. Using the commander is good, but it's also important to keep a line of direct communication open for such things.

There still is no reason for the SL who is lazing the target/calling in the helo air support, or air support for that matter to update the CO, simply saying "CO, squad x, urgent CAS request" will automatically grab the CO's attention and will put you at the top of the list in regards to communication.

Same goes for helo supplies, many times on Muttrah I have seen supply drop requests made (there was no CO during these times), helo transport comes in and "BOOM" destroyed by AA, no update on AA was given, nothing, and then the pilot gets blamed for the mishap when in reality its the SL who is at fault for not updating the helo on what is in the area and for not asking the team if there is any AA or other obstacles in the area.

Whenever I have gone CO, and when I give an attack order for a hydra, attack helo etc, the first things the pilots have said are "What is the target and is there AA around."

Transport helo pilots/squad must realize that they have a job to do, but when the time comes to not fly anymore they have to put into their heads that they may in fact be asked to get dirty on the ground.

Normally if I ground helo's I ask that all pilots to vacate the helicopters, too many times I have witnessed "grounded" helo pilots hovering around the main/carrier and then that's how "mistakes" happen, i.e. helo's flip, crash, and other unnecessary things.

I actually do enjoy from a tactical stand point grounding helo's at certain times, even if its in the middle of the round, it can be used to your advantage, the other side can get antsy, those in AA fortifications can get antsy and then the global chat begins "hey US/Mec where are you helo's? Scared?" That one is my favorite, yes our digital helicopter pilots are scared of other digital men running around with weapons in a computer game.

**gijoe** · 08-14-2009, 03:39 PM

I can see how it would make sense. Ive seen lots of hueys flying around on muttrah for no reason only to be shot down. But technically.....it wouldnt be fair to make something like this apply strictly to the pilots. What about the fail tankers that rush full nme armor colomns? Or the infantry squad that goes 4:60 as a k/d? Thats all a waste of tickets when it comes down to it.

**Amdak** · 08-14-2009, 03:43 PM

Originally Posted by Jeepo_SAS

1. Should a CO have the right to ask an admin to kick if a chopper is in the air without his order?

This will save time when the request comes in, save tickets and be more realistic.

Yes, he should and does have the right to do so. But if the pilot wants to do something it would be more productive to order him to do something where he gets to fly a bit and risk the helicopter as little as possible.
Transport helicopters are of course not included since those usually have no role outside transporting players and supplies, but even those can be used to create small resupply zones that arent likely to be in the line sight of hostile players.

Its still a game, the commander seat is still just a player position. Cant say i understand players that take their word as COs as absolute, try to compromise a bit with players and only if that fails refuse their actions. It would make this entire issue far less annoying for both sides.

**snooggums** · 08-14-2009, 03:44 PM

Originally Posted by Startrekern

Typically, unless there's a commander, it's better to let the people use the helicopters and keep them in your squad where you can control them rather than forcing them to stay out of the squad because you don't want them using the choppers when there's no commander about, which usually results in them making their own squad to fly the choppers anyway where you have less control over them. (In my opinion.)

While my comment was in the context of having a commander (per the topic of the thread) I can both see your side and disagree with it. If you are making a large (4 man) squad just for transport and then those 4 guys sit around idle just to keep the choppers down that is 2 of 31 possible players that just aren't needed in that spot. A better idea would be to go commander, assign the choppers to a 2 man squad and that frees up one more person for the front lines and still keeps the choppers from being 'wasted'.

Better yet, simply run a two man squad, request that players just leave the assets to the asset squad (ask nicely of course

) and if they comply you don't even have to go commander. But it really comes down to if it's that important that the choppers are rationed there needs to be a commander to organize it if everyone doesn't comply. if it isn't important enough for you or one of the chopper squad members to go commander for the game then just let them screw around and don't sweat it.

If you want to be an ass (I admit I did this once) to players who demand to be invited into the asset squad and hops into one to kind of take it hostage invite the player into the squad as they requested. Once in the squad order the player to get out of the chopper and have a talk about how the number of choppers is not needed and suggest he be in another infantry squad until one of the current pilots leaves or does something else and then he can join the flight squad. If he joins your squad, you order him out of the chopper and he ignores your order and does his own thing you can report him for disobeying squad leader orders.

View Poll Results: Should a CO have the right to ask an admin to kick if a chopper is up without orders?

Thread Tools

Display

Pilot decorum

Re: Pilot decorum

Re: Pilot decorum

Re: Pilot decorum

Re: Pilot decorum

Re: Pilot decorum

Re: Pilot decorum

Re: Pilot decorum

Re: Pilot decorum

Re: Pilot decorum

Re: Pilot decorum

Re: Pilot decorum

Re: Pilot decorum

Re: Pilot decorum

Re: Pilot decorum

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

Bookmarks

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

Project Reality: ArmA2 v0.15 -...

Rayne's Eye on Independant Gaming:...

Panzer Corps Named Wargame of the...

Two New Multi-Mission Events for...

Tactical Gamer Podcast Series - TG...

Recent Blog Entries

:d

The Best Video Feedback

Beyond SOPA: ACTA, WIPO, and the...

Common Mistakes: #10