Re: Mumble... Yes or No?

**Rudd_medicman** · 09-14-2009, 02:34 AM

Wickens does have a point, but if you had 64 peeps in TS that problem would be magnified 100x.

Mumble > TS in everyway.

EXCEPT

Whispers (this is a major one, it is annoying sometimes when 2 SLs have an important conversation what is irrelevant to everyone else causing you to mishear something in your local area, but its unavoidable atm.
Dynamic Admin creation

And I know Dirtyboy tried out mumble today, and I'm scared he's been frightened away from it now because of some douches, which brings me to the final point.

Its very easy to exploit.
If you are a tard who crashes the server, you'll happilly record the 64 people going "blah blah crash creah" but thats a TS problem as well ofc.

If you have been kicked, as dirtyboy found tonight, you might have to put up with the kicked person being a dick out of game. (Which everyone can hear) Which is a major problem, people asking "what map is on" get a very sharpe "look at the maplist moron" from me. And its not particularly easy to ban these people who intentionally annoy people on the server from mumble as its hard to tell who is talking since alot of people are but they are so far away...you can't hear them.

VERDICT ACCORDING TO RUDD.

Yes, mumble increases the potential for LOCAL teamwork as well as MAPWIDE teamwork to a large degree. from asking for helo transport from accross the map, to asking a smurf to throw a grenade.

BUT. It is not a finished product. Its a relatively new opensource program with relatively new PR modifications. It is .5, not 1.0.

I.e. Convenient aspects such as Autochannel changing have not been implemented. And the exploitable aspects of the program have not been fixed.

So! Download it, have a go, try a week of mumble gaming! if you don't like it, sure thats fine. But try the next version!

And if another person gives me the excuse "I have it, but no1 is ever on it" I'll bloody scream.

If no1 joins cuz no1 is on it, no1 will ever be on it....

**Celestial1** · 09-14-2009, 02:50 AM

Originally Posted by Rudd_medicman

Whispers (this is a major one, it is annoying sometimes when 2 SLs have an important conversation what is irrelevant to everyone else causing you to mishear something in your local area, but its unavoidable atm.
Dynamic Admin creation

Also a problem with TS. Magnified in TS because everyone in TS can always hear eachother, and magnified in mumble due to the shear number of users. Might be better fixed if there was a quicker drop-off rate to the audio, but nonetheless is better than attempting to do so over TS.

If you have been kicked, as dirtyboy found tonight, you might have to put up with the kicked person being a dick out of game. (Which everyone can hear) Which is a major problem, people asking "what map is on" get a very sharpe "look at the maplist moron" from me. And its not particularly easy to ban these people who intentionally annoy people on the server from mumble as its hard to tell who is talking since alot of people are but they are so far away...you can't hear them.

If we treat it like TS, it will be more successful than TS. If we treat it as mumble, then it loses the same luxuries that TS does. One of the biggest issues right now is that we don't currently have a 'ban from channel' option to let individual server admins revoke privileges from users who abuse the server. If TG got hands on it's own mumble server, the channels could be set up exactly like TS (TG public channel, TG Coordination 1 -Subchannel Leadership 1, TG Coord 2 - subchan Lead 2) and could ban and kick users that abuse the system.

For now, I suggest that whenever someone talks out of game in channel, request that they not speak in mumble coordination channels at all if not in game. Ignore their requests, and point them to the waiting room channel.

If we treat the waiting room channel as TS public, and the coordination rooms as TS Coord channels, the same rules can be enforced, and these issues will not exist.

Yes, mumble increases the potential for LOCAL teamwork as well as MAPWIDE teamwork to a large degree. from asking for helo transport from accross the map, to asking a smurf to throw a grenade.

Even more notable is the coordination between local vehicles and infantry; need a lift? Call out on the Radio for a pickup, keep it short and sweet ("Squad X needs APC transport!") then when he arrives, load your squad in and use local to give him the coordinates, saving a bit of a burden from the rest of the team where more complicated, precise instructions ("Okay, go to XYkeypadZ, and drop us off at building A, and provide overwatch at B") can be used without making everyone else go mad.

And if another person gives me the excuse "I have it, but no1 is ever on it" I'll bloody scream.

If no1 joins cuz no1 is on it, no1 will ever be on it....

It's just a lot of people being lazy and whining; there could be people in it and they wouldn't bother, they just want a better sounding excuse. I have yet to see the mumble server dead at normal playing times on TG.

**Berlancic** · 09-14-2009, 05:54 PM

Originally Posted by Celestial1

It's just a lot of people being lazy and whining; there could be people in it and they wouldn't bother, they just want a better sounding excuse. I have yet to see the mumble server dead at normal playing times on TG.

I mean, these people play video games, how lazier can you get? Excuse the stereotype.

OFF-QUOTE: Only until mumble is made official on TG will some people get it. And even then some won't. And those people come up with piss-poor excuses.

I don't know what it is, does it really drag people down to download mumble which'll take a few seconds? These people download 1 and 1/2 GB files for PR, so why can't they bother to get mumble. Mumble makes gameplay IMO more enjoyable because of the features, and as a gamer wouldn't you want that? It does not make sense.
"I want to have fun playing a game, but I can't be bothered to take a few minutes of my time to make it more enjoyable"

These people, what is with you? Truly, what the hell is stopping you from downloading and installing mumble? Enough of the excuses.

**snooggums** · 09-14-2009, 06:38 PM

Originally Posted by Berlancic

OFF-QUOTE: Only until mumble is made official on TG will some people get it. And even then some won't. And those people come up with piss-poor excuses.

I don't know what it is, does it really drag people down to download mumble which'll take a few seconds? These people download 1 and 1/2 GB files for PR, so why can't they bother to get mumble. Mumble makes gameplay IMO more enjoyable because of the features, and as a gamer wouldn't you want that? It does not make sense.
"I want to have fun playing a game, but I can't be bothered to take a few minutes of my time to make it more enjoyable"

These people, what is with you? Truly, what the hell is stopping you from downloading and installing mumble? Enough of the excuses.

Some people have actual technical issues with mumble such as losing their surround sound, poor voice quality etc. They can use TS, but people rarely use that anymore.

If I was one of those people I would find your post very rude, since the mumble players won't take the time to use the TG TS channel but belittle the people who don't use mumble.

**zebra.actual** · 09-14-2009, 07:28 PM

I only play on TG server because its the only mumble server that actually has people in it. If you play on TG server a lot then you should for sure download it. I especially like how TG server is set up since the other team cant hear you, only friendlies near you can hear you. Or if you're in the SL channel then any SL in that channel (or anyone in that channel as a matter of fact) can hear you and you can also talk to those near you if you bind both keys.

Squad leader radio = for squad lead channel
Local speech = those within the 75m or whatever it is can hear you.

The only downside I see is that there is no button to bind that can switch you channels. Since you have to start mumble, PR then wait to see what team youre on and then alt tab to go to the correct mumble channel. Quite a few people seem to crash when alt tabbing to switch channels in mumble.

**bassochist** · 09-14-2009, 08:00 PM

I'm asking instead of doing my own research, but is there a way or is it already in effect that the enemy can hear you mumbling from whatever meters as well?

Imo that would be amazing. Except that everyone speaks English and so differentiating friend or foe would be tricky.

Unless an effect of some kind is added when hearing enemy channels...maybe a auto voice changer that's the same for every voice in the opposing channel...your enemies are soulless robots....get'm...

**Celestial1** · 09-14-2009, 10:16 PM

Originally Posted by snooggums

Some people have actual technical issues with mumble such as losing their surround sound, poor voice quality etc. They can use TS, but people rarely use that anymore.

If I was one of those people I would find your post very rude, since the mumble players won't take the time to use the TG TS channel but belittle the people who don't use mumble.

The comment isn't directed at those people, however.

People with technical problems, such as Nardini's sound card issue, are entitled to feel a bit flustered and upset about mumble. Those who simply refuse to take a moment to download and run the short audio wizard are either technologically inept or extremely lazy; most of the players fall under the second category.

Originally Posted by bassochist

I'm asking instead of doing my own research, but is there a way or is it already in effect that the enemy can hear you mumbling from whatever meters as well?

Imo that would be amazing. Except that everyone speaks English and so differentiating friend or foe would be tricky.

Unless an effect of some kind is added when hearing enemy channels...maybe a auto voice changer that's the same for every voice in the opposing channel...your enemies are soulless robots....get'm...

All (?) other servers are set up this way. One team channel, and everyone in the channel can hear eachother.

TG has the teams separated since usually this only leads to people yelling out 'mumble' every 10 seconds or trying to taunt eachother 'haha, eat my teabag, ololololol'.

Unless there was a voice-changer that would attempt to make the voices indistinguishable depending on what team you are on, I would rather avoid this, as it leads to a lot of silliness and unnecessarily giving your squad's position away.

**thebrute7** · 09-14-2009, 11:02 PM

When I have been able to get on and use mumble I have found it to be a great game-enhancer. One problem is having to alt-tab out to switch channels. It would be nice if mumble had an auto channel-switch, or hotkeys for channel switches. It would make life much easier for people like me who have low-RAM computers and alt-tabbing out take an inordinate amount of time. It would be great if more people used it.

I have had some trouble with people using mumble incorrectly (for non-game reasons) which is beyond annoying and detrimental to the whole team. It would be nice if TG could get it's own mumble server so we could have people like that kicked from mumble.

**Berlancic** · 09-15-2009, 03:54 AM

Originally Posted by snooggums

Some people have actual technical issues with mumble such as losing their surround sound, poor voice quality etc. They can use TS, but people rarely use that anymore.

If I was one of those people I would find your post very rude, since the mumble players won't take the time to use the TG TS channel but belittle the people who don't use mumble.

I am not talking about the people who have technical issues. I am talking about those who actually can't be bothered. Should've mentioned that, fault on my part.

I myself use TS. I don't know why others insist on not doing so either.

**BigGaayAl** · 09-15-2009, 04:26 AM

I enjoy playing with mumble, and i feel it often adds to the the gameplay.

However, I find that there have been some problems with players spamming too much, and a generally lower comms discipline compared to ts. It is important to me that the same standards be upheld in mumble as on ts.

The other day there was a specific problem player, and he was kicked by someone. I think the admin on mumble was not TG.

The reason I post this is that I am wondering, what is the stance on this? And are there any specific plans already made concerning this? Are any of our admins mumble admins?

**Rudd_medicman** · 09-15-2009, 04:49 AM

"The reason I post this is that I am wondering, what is the stance on this? And are there any specific plans already made concerning this? Are any of our admins mumble admins?"

Cougar is, but part of the problem with mumble is that admins cannot be dynamically created on the spot afaik.

You have to contact R-DEV dB or another R- representative, and they'll add your mumble username to the admin roster with a password.

There would be advantages in TG running their own mumble server because of this imo, but it would mean less pubbers would join it, and where TS works great if the key players are on and no1 else, Mumble is about having a large saturation of players.

**Gore** · 09-15-2009, 06:02 AM

No. But I'm not against using mumble. It's just better to keep one form of VoIP and not separate all PR players. It'll take alot time to get it incoporated. Joining a squad the old fashion way without having to fiddle with a third part program is easier as well.

**Golgo13** · 09-15-2009, 08:10 AM

It slows my system down a lot, TS did not do that, I cant figure out why. I suppose its odd for pilots hearing different convos depending on where they fly.

**MarcusLee** · 09-15-2009, 09:03 AM

Ts annoys me because of the bad voice quality (I am a vent person), and mumble's voice quality is notch.

^ that may have sounded a bit shallow

In games I have played where every SL, pilot AND the commander was on mumble (SL channel), we were unstoppable, we could co-ordinate everything so fast, but that still didn't stop me being crushed by a supply crate....

**Wicks** · 09-15-2009, 10:04 AM

Can we just clarify that people don't need or have to use mumble or any ingame voip for that matter and the attitude of some mumble users is actually what's putting people off. Let me expand on that, "the anyone who doesn't use mumble is anti teamwork and doesn't understand the game if they don't like it" type sentiment that's being peddled by some is really starting to get on my nerves to be blunt. A hell a lot of the people being overly pushy about mumble are fairly new here and aren't always the best comms users when using TS, if they ever used it effectively. I use mumble if and when I want. Sometimes I don't and I prefer if people in my squad don't either as some seem to have the attention span of a flea and lack the capacity to carry out simple instructions in normal circumstances, let alone when they are going, "hello, can you hear me, mumble, mumble".

Honestly it is just a very interesting comms tool, calm down. People don't need an excuse not to use TS let alone MUMBLE. Honestly the overzealous pushing of MUMBLE down peoples throats is off putting. Stop trying to coerce people in to using a comms tool and maybe they will, also stop spamming all chat in game with "what channel are you in (friend), I can't hear you, can you hear me". Nobody cares if your mumble is working or not, get it.

The reason people are on the server is to play PR, not play MUMBLE with a side order of PR. It really seems to have become more important than the actual game to some of the users, that's fine, you play like that if you want but don't criticise others or carry on like some evangelical preacher because some people think the game itself is the primary focus, not how many people you can say 'mumble, mumble' to in your immediate area.

It didn't work trying to force people to use TS and the behaviour on there is far more mature and better regulated.

One more personal opinion I don't believe that the use of mumble makes anyone a stunning player tactically, it makes very good blob formations easy which with limited player numbers is extremely effective. In essence you can pretty much over run any flag with enough medics, guns and ammo. Doesn't mean anything you did had any tactical merit, you simply Russian Steam Rollered the single squad that was defending. You could have walked straight at them with the same result. I have seen players use mumble to co-ordinate and attack from different angles etc but it isn't something exclusive to Mumble, I've seen players do it on TS, all chat and I've seen good players do it simply by looking at their map and knowing what needs to be done.

Before any of you lecture people on the teamwork possibilities of mumble and its benefits perhaps ask yourself why you weren't able to do these things before.

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