Re: Please revise supporter kick for Squad Leaders

**Celestial1** · 10-05-2009, 09:19 PM

Originally Posted by d1sp0sabl3H3r0

) who is dead (with a 5 minute man-down timer, who is really dead, anyway?) and who is not
) who is a sl and who is not
) who is a pilot, and if so, is he currently flying
) who is a crewman, and if so, is he currently deployed to the field
) whatever other criteria I need to check

Isn't that what the script is for, though? I don't see you stopping to kick people from the server or SMs coming into the admin channel and asking you to do so...

With a 5 minute man-down timer, either everyone is really dead, or only people who are actually dead are dead.

I'm sure the script could at least know (if it can know anything useful, that is) who is dead-dead, and there is a good possibility it might be able to know who is wounded.

Delta*RandyShugart* · 10-05-2009, 09:26 PM

Ask Joshua Celestial, I bet he knows and he'll play a game with you.

**Celestial1** · 10-05-2009, 09:33 PM

Originally Posted by Delta*RandyShugart*

Ask Joshua

You have managed to thoroughly confuse me in 2 words.

**d1sp0sabl3H3r0** · 10-05-2009, 10:01 PM

Originally Posted by Celestial1

Isn't that what the script is for, though? I don't see you stopping to kick people from the server or SMs coming into the admin channel and asking you to do so...

With a 5 minute man-down timer, either everyone is really dead, or only people who are actually dead are dead.

I'm sure the script could at least know (if it can know anything useful, that is) who is dead-dead, and there is a good possibility it might be able to know who is wounded.

You didn't bother to read Rudd's post suggesting that there be a human element attached to the kick process obviously. My response was to his post. Next time I'll quote it directly so there is no confusion.

**d1sp0sabl3H3r0** · 10-05-2009, 10:11 PM

Originally Posted by fuzzhead

Anyways I dont want to cause drama in this thread, I said my thing, db offered a suggestion, if admins feel the current system is ideal and none of the offered suggestions are better than current, than I guess that brings conclusion to the discussion.

Good points by fuzz on the seeding aspect and there is probably more than a grain of truth to that and the lack of players early in the day.

I don't see any drama here. Again, people arguing a topic is not drama, it's pure discussion and why these forums are in place. I didn't see asch say that the system is carved in stone (actually, he said it isn't) and that if we can come up with a system that is better, or more fair to everyone, then we could get the script modified. So let's continue the discussion and see if there is a "happy medium" that can be reached. We've all seen the points for and against the SM kick, now let's discuss possible solutions and see which ones will really work.

To that end, perhaps not kicking the SL would be a good experiment to try and see what happens with it. I can't argue the fact that it does disrupt the continuity of the squad or the team, so that might be a good starting point. Please note my prior disclaimer though, neither myself nor any of the PR admins have the ability nor the authority to modify the script; we can only participate in the discussions with you guys and with the GOs and asch about what potential changes could be made to the existing system.

**MarineSeaknight** · 10-05-2009, 10:55 PM

I could go for a not kicking the SL kind of thing, but make it unannounced when the change does happen.

**snooggums** · 10-05-2009, 11:29 PM

Originally Posted by d1sp0sabl3H3r0

To that end, perhaps not kicking the SL would be a good experiment to try and see what happens with it. I can't argue the fact that it does disrupt the continuity of the squad or the team, so that might be a good starting point. Please note my prior disclaimer though, neither myself nor any of the PR admins have the ability nor the authority to modify the script; we can only participate in the discussions with you guys and with the GOs and asch about what potential changes could be made to the existing system.

As asch posted on page 3:

Originally Posted by asch

At one point in time we did have the SLs exempt. That did lead to an excessive number of smaller squads and broke down the teamwork. I don't remember if we ever tried to base it off of the number of people in the squad, however I would imagine that may lead to folks trying to game the system. If we were to exempt a SL of a certain sized squad that doesn't mean they are always contributing to teamwork. It would also mean SLs of smaller asset-based squads (e.g. attack chopper, tank, etc.) may get kicked more frequently.

It looks like what I would expect to happen, did.

**asch** · 10-05-2009, 11:32 PM

Guys... thanks for keeping the discussion constructive.

I do acknowledge that the system isn't perfect. Removing leadership (i.e. SLs) can disrupt the game play. It affects both SMs and non-SMs when this happens.

Some things to consider when thinking of solutions...

1) Must be technically feasible.
2) Cannot penalize players for subjective statistics (i.e. score).
3) Needs to be simple enough to implement and not impact server performance.
4) ... (I may think of more.) :-)

Delta*RandyShugart* · 10-06-2009, 12:16 AM

Originally Posted by Celestial1

You have managed to thoroughly confuse me in 2 words.

Its a reference from the movie wargames. NVM, i just dated myself

**d1sp0sabl3H3r0** · 10-06-2009, 12:33 AM

Originally Posted by Delta*RandyShugart*

...i just dated myself

You'll go blind!!! ^^^^

**Celestial1** · 10-06-2009, 01:51 AM

Originally Posted by d1sp0sabl3H3r0

You didn't bother to read Rudd's post suggesting that there be a human element attached to the kick process obviously. My response was to his post. Next time I'll quote it directly so there is no confusion.

I read it, didn't connect the two. I see where you're coming from now.

Originally Posted by Delta*RandyShugart*

Its a reference from the movie wargames. NVM, i just dated myself

It all makes sense now. I was so confused, WarGames didn't come to mind.

Shall we play a game?
Love to. How about Project Reality?
Wouldn't you prefer a good game of BF2CC?
Later. Let's play Project Reality.
No.

**SnipingCoward** · 10-06-2009, 02:14 PM

Originally Posted by Celestial1

I'm sure the script could at least know (if it can know anything useful, that is) who is dead-dead, and there is a good possibility it might be able to know who is wounded.

i like the idea of kicking dead and/or wounded players first
i do not see the necessity of differentiating between wounded and dead. this would just limit the pool of "kickees". the reason to kick a incapacitated player rather than a live player is to prevent unnecessary asset destruction

on the other hand a further distinction could be considered as an additional level of priority
kick priority:
1. dead player
2. wounded player
3. live player

i would also like to point out, since you guys as SMs might not be aware - that it takes merely 3-5 min average to join the full server as a non-SM when using the PR's "Auto-Deploy" function (by personal experience)

so i would like to suggest to introduce a pending slot or SM kick delay (since there already is 62/64 [2 buffer slots]) - the point would be to have a period of time where instead of kicking the server would try to self regulate

3-5 min (or a better interval which could/should be empirically determained) to have a total amount of 63/64 players if after the time the server did not regulate the player number to 62/64 by itself (ppl dropping [pb/dc/quit]) the script would would be started
ofcourse when a 2nd SM joins and the player count goes to 64/64 the SM-kick delay would be overruled and the kick would start immediatley to achieve 63/64

as for the argument of "but its set to 62/64 so that there are even teams": in the short kick delay of 3-5 min - what difference does a single player that just joined make?

~ 3 out of 10 SM-kicks (which are actually 1 minute bans) i could not reconnect because of the ban status although a slot just opened up again and "Auto-Deploy" function tried to get me in again
so i would like you to reconsider the 1 min ban timer on the SM kick script while we are at it (unless its hardcoded)

**chrisweb89** · 10-06-2009, 04:55 PM

I have been on both sides of the kick and for me I would say leave it. I have been on rounds where I only lasted 25 minutes because of how many SM were on but I still had fun in that time and waitied for another slot. Other servers do manualy kick when their member wants to join so why can't ours do it automatically?

The system as it is is as fair as I think its going to be and if you really want to stay on for a long time there are ways to cheat the system.

**bjoffe** · 10-06-2009, 05:47 PM

I don't have so much a personal problem with the kicks as i got a principal problem.
I agree like previously mentioned it going against an open community, and personally my stomach wouldn't allow me to join the server knowing i would kick someone. The server gathers great players and i've been playing here for years, but there is no way i would financially support it with this function.
The two cents.
If i find myself in the dangerzone, i usually reconnect between rounds and don't hold many grudges for myself. I however do complain over the inconsistency it creates for gameplay.

If I had a say, i'd keep the 2 slots (or another number) for supporting member and simply remove kicks. Paying members would still have a huge advantage. It would be hell entering the server primetime if not paying for it but once you'd got in you'd only have to worry about the normal disconnecting, it wouldn't punish non-supporting seeders, and i think it would hold tremendous advantage on gameplay and keeping consistent teams between maploads. Just what i always thought would be fair..

**james-d** · 10-06-2009, 06:51 PM

Originally Posted by SnipingCoward

~ 3 out of 10 SM-kicks (which are actually 1 minute bans) i could not reconnect because of the ban status although a slot just opened up again and "Auto-Deploy" function tried to get me in again
so i would like you to reconsider the 1 min ban timer on the SM kick script while we are at it (unless its hardcoded)

I agree with that, it seems to me slightly unnecessary, and it is fairly annoying. It just feels like you are forced to wait for no reason.

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