Re: the L85 doesnt exist

**Taip3n** · 10-29-2009, 07:11 AM

On point one: (NB: I am no gun guru; fired a couple of types). The forward hand grip to me has always seemed nonsensical. I don't know why it is there. Is it because of barrel heat, or something to do with close quarters suburban fighting, like house clearing? Or both? A bit of a fad? To me holding the stock is more stable, and more 'ergonomic' with the design of a human form in various positions. Basically, it feels better, and yes, is more stable, and better able to fit into various positions. As Wicks says, it does seem too cramped, voiding the hand grip. I believe he is a much better person to state comments on it though.

Back to questions then: I am guessing the kick isn't so bad from the smaller rounds but is it better because of automatic you can 'pull down' the recoil more, allowing more rounds into a grouping? If it is the ‘normal pistol two handed grip’ then even I found a semi-auto heavy and hard to keep accurate (I was young but I still reckon I’d find the same; I’m no silverback framed type or even half silverback). I certainly wouldn’t aspire to the Hollywood version of firing a semi-auto, or likely I’d have some that sprang from my knees whilst calling myself Manko and taking on half of New York (or since I am in Britain, half of Devon should do it). Is it because it frees up the trigger hand as you can hold the weapon in your shoulder semi-gripping the forward grip?? Is it like gun kung-fu? And yes, looks meaty but cluttered. “Simple”, I would think is the watchword. Forgive this civies' ignorance; I know more about the stars to be honest, and that aint much. I hear North is found by following the brightest star, btw. As we all cunningly know that is the sun! (Yep, they kept it secret but I worked it out).

Numero two: Dogs are the latest 'accessory'. So un-Yoda. I hear in London the police are taking them away. Good job and – at last. I wonder how the Oxford massive (et al) will deal with it. I mean; London will chew them up. Maybe they should go to poor areas of Brasilian cities and tell them how hard up they are in the UK carrying knives and going around in groups randomly attacking people.

Great pics and comments btw Jeepo (and others). Not seen one up close, so was informative. Thank you.

**Waldo_II** · 10-29-2009, 07:05 PM

Originally Posted by Taip3n

On point one: (NB: I am no gun guru; fired a couple of types). The forward hand grip to me has always seemed nonsensical. I don't know why it is there. Is it because of barrel heat, or something to do with close quarters suburban fighting, like house clearing? Or both? A bit of a fad? To me holding the stock is more stable, and more 'ergonomic' with the design of a human form in various positions. Basically, it feels better, and yes, is more stable, and better able to fit into various positions. As Wicks says, it does seem too cramped, voiding the hand grip. I believe he is a much better person to state comments on it though.

Holding the weapon closer to the center of gravity allows you to maneuver the weapon faster. If your arm is at full length, and you want to move the weapon 45 degrees, your hand is moving a total of three feet. If your arm is at a 90 degree angle holding the weapon just in front of the mag well, your hand moves six inches. The same for vertical movement. If you want to bring your weapon from carry to CQB ready-to-fire, you move a lot less if your hand is closer to you.

**Blade.3510** · 10-30-2009, 07:43 AM

Originally Posted by Jeepo_SAS

L85 with ACOG.....Not a fan.....

This set up, with the hand grip come bipod, railing and flashlight is fast become the standard layout in Afghanistan, though without the ACOG for now.....

ah but is that like the L85 described in PR? fore grip looks pritty green to me in game

**chrisweb89** · 10-30-2009, 12:50 PM

I don't think the one ingame has any special rails or attatchments, just the normal green body.

**Wicks** · 10-30-2009, 04:52 PM

Originally Posted by Waldo_II

Holding the weapon closer to the center of gravity allows you to maneuver the weapon faster. If your arm is at full length, and you want to move the weapon 45 degrees, your hand is moving a total of three feet. If your arm is at a 90 degree angle holding the weapon just in front of the mag well, your hand moves six inches. The same for vertical movement. If you want to bring your weapon from carry to CQB ready-to-fire, you move a lot less if your hand is closer to you.

Err yes precisely, whilst effective for CQB it's very strength (manueverability) is it's weakness for longer range engagements. That I would say is fairly obvious. It's the same reason why when someone builds a table they put the legs at the edges of the table and not all in the middle, otherwise your dinner ends up on the floor! Maybe I am wrong perhaps we will see a new generation of DMR and sniper rifles with a hand grip next to the trigger guard and no bi-pod. Watch some footage of troops using handgrip equipped M4's engaging at medium to long range and I think you will notice a lot of them resting the fore grip on walls etc, for the very reasons I have described.

**Taip3n** · 10-30-2009, 06:06 PM

Interesting points.

Considering the great scheme of things, I'd like to elaborate them. Please do give informed reasons to dismiss my argument. I should hope it so rather than think my gradual A to B. However:

Seems to me then, if I had the option, I'd throw the damned forward grip thing away. Seems it's more likely to get you or your mates killed and a hazard. From what I can tell then: it reduces efficiency to critical.

I would go so far as to say it is indeed, a fad from those above. And a dangerous one. The problem is though, those below don't have the ability to choose. I would think a few of the guys that can get away with tailoring equipment, may consider this as one to 'get rid'. Those that don't have that option because they are just a inferior cog just have to lump it, or worse, don't even realise the danger and reduction of ability, making them act poorer in situations and mannerisms.

If it aint broke, don't fix it. They say.

What I wonder is if you get used to having a hand grip, then you begin to rely on luck more than skill. Right environment to allow ability rather than ability to adapt to environment.

Sounds like a scarily dangerous fad.

I'd rather not go into any QCB - or any battle. But I think I know which way of thinking I'd rather have if I ever had to hold a weapon in my hands.

**Jeepo** · 10-30-2009, 08:41 PM

Couple of things to add. All good points,especially about the CQB side of things. With the wepon shouldered tightly, overall speed and accuracy are definately increased. However I do agree with the opinion that it leaves little room, and TBH I have not seen a Torch fitted to one of those set ups, ever. Without the torch you have the best of both, hand rail for CQB and rail for long range. Also, do not forget that the grip = a bipod, meaning with the superb accuracy of the L85 ( The Army tests had to be redesigned so accurate was the rifle during testing) and the low recoil, meaning, your are effictively getting a personal LMG and support marksman rifle all rolled into one.

Next up, Blade in PR the Green cover is there, and in RL is never open unless being cleaned, or are engaged in "rapid fire" and the barrel needs to cool, so we open it to allow in air flow. I have heard of the plastic melting in certain firing conditions.....However, the railing are bang on, keeping your hand safe, and the barrel cool. Also bear in mind that the weapon is an individual piece of kit, and gets set up for the individual, meaning hand grips, mounts, optics re set and moved to the most comfortable point individually.

**Blade.3510** · 10-31-2009, 01:03 PM

so the green things are covers :s boy do i feel stupid :s

**MarcusLee** · 10-31-2009, 02:09 PM

Not sure if this has been mentioned, but with the magazine nearer the stock, it allows for the same length barrel of a middle magged weapon with less protruding from the end of the weapon. or a longer barrel if it has the same amount protruding.

**Mix0lydian** · 11-02-2009, 09:02 PM

as is the case with all other bullpups...

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