No rally point feedback thread - PR .874b

[Alpha_s9]

The issue I have is the time and difficulty expended to get a FO into position to help your team is not proportional to the skill and effort expended to destroy that FO.

I think this is ultimately the biggest snag with the removal of rallies. CO supply drops would help decrease the effort required to create FOBs, but I also believe we need to rethink the FOB destruction process.

As long as the supply drop is on a timer, then you have to wait to get that second crate in your uber AA location.

Within minutes of posting this I realized something the CO supply drops might break. Dropping crates at ambush locations makes mining a huge hassle... so maybe something else can be dropped. Say a box that allows kits and FOBs, but doesn't supply ammo?

[johnflenaly]

How about somewhere in the middle. First off knifing needs to go, this is just retared. I would keep the ability to take the FireBase down to base with incindiaries. Still leaving the ability for friendly forces to force the enemy off the firebase and rebuild it if needed. I think the only way you should be able to kill the base is with C4, HAT, tank round ect. Also keep current engy numbers. Thoughts?

[johnflenaly]

I don't know if this is even possible, but what if a commander could place a FOB within a certain distance of a captured flag? I'm talking via the CP, with no crates needed.

This would add a little bit more to the flag capture and benefit the team with a commander, maybe making it more common to have one. I doubt you could have a "build timer", or something where it takes a while to construct... but that would be even better. The thought of an instant spawn becoming available after a successful assault scares me a little, but it could represent reserve forces on standby to move in and secure once the objective has been captured.

On highly contested flags, that would mean both teams probably have a FOB somewhere close to the action (until it's destroyed) and with the limit on build distances combined with a radius to flag limitation you'd probably be able to get it so that only one or two FOBs could be brought into play around that flag by the commander option. I mention this because if control of the flag flips multiple times in a short period you might end up with a lot of FOBs. Problems here would be the ability to move your team across the flags very quickly if done correctly, and not much for the defenders to do about it.

Ultimately something like this would give the command chair a bit more control over where the team's resources are allocated for assaults by allowing him control over the location your assault will be spawning from. I'm not sure what to do about defense, unless it's just allow the commander to drop a FOB every X seconds... and we all know how that would turn out.

It also takes away from the logistics of the game, putting less emphasis on ambushes. I'm big on changes that allow the commander more control over the team without directly hindering the team that doesn't have a commander. A change like this would pretty much mean both teams need a commander, or someone needs to do a helluva job on build detail.

With all that said, I'm thinking that maybe we should consider some form of airborne supply drop available to the CO, giving him the ability to drop supplies in the areas where he wants a FOB. Then all he has to do is direct an officer or CE over to that location and have them build. After sitting in the CO seat a few times post change, I've noticed the following scenario:

Squad 1 will build a critical FOB well behind the line, but used by most of the team as their respawn point in the beginning of the match.

Squad 2 pushes forward and drops supplies at a good build location, but then notices they are too close to the "rear" FOB. They immediately request that commander destroy that FOB so they can build a new one.

The problem here is that squad 2 represents one flank, and probably does need a FOB. However, destroying the rear FOB affects all flanks. In those situations, I want to move the rear FOB further back to allow good forward building positions. I can't do this however until someone takes crates to that location, and is standing by to rebuild the rear fob.

Well, you CAN do it... but it's a bad idea. Forward bases go down a lot, and relying on all your fowards as your only way to get back into the fight almost always ends badly.

The ability for a CO to drop a supply crate at any location would help in the above situations.

I'm against this with the way it is now there is emphasis on logistics were before there really wasn't. I think weve added to the game with this and would rather not seen it taken away. If you can cut the opfor supply chain you can limit there effectiveness on the field.

Airborne supply drops I think are ok as long as there very limited like current area attacks are.

[Alpha_s9]

I'm against this with the way it is now there is emphasis on logistics were before there really wasn't. I think weve added to the game with this and would rather not seen it taken away. If you can cut the opfor supply chain you can limit there effectiveness on the field.

Airborne supply drops I think are ok as long as there very limited like current area attacks are.

I agree... I think CO FOB drops are a bit much. I love the fact that logistics are a factor now, and being able to drop supplies every 30 seconds would really kill that. That's why I'm liking the idea of kits/FOB boxes without ammo. You still need to run crates out for ammo, but tools to help build/fight can be dropped at any location.

This would basically act as a logistics tool allocated specifically to the commander. If he wants someone to have a HAT at their location, he tells his crew to fly one out there and drop it off. Same thing with dropping supplies to build a FOB for an officer in the field.

500 HAT rounds for the HAT sniper would still require a big truck.

[STealthBanana]

How about somewhere in the middle. First off knifing needs to go, this is just retared. I would keep the ability to take the FireBase down to base with incindiaries. Still leaving the ability for friendly forces to force the enemy off the firebase and rebuild it if needed. I think the only way you should be able to kill the base is with C4, HAT, tank round ect. Also keep current engy numbers. Thoughts?

I like this idea, I was actually thinking the same.
C4 being the only way a FB can get blown up (besides tank rounds etc).
If an infantry squad found a FB an Engineer would need to be send in to destroy it.
The infantry needs to hold the area around the FB until the CE arrives,
the time a FB is overrun could be increased to prevent anyone from spawning.
This way the Combat Engineer would be a vital part of the team rather than someone doing his own thing ambushing stuff. ( nothing against ambushing, i like it )

[Diligent_BF2]

I like this idea, I was actually thinking the same.
C4 being the only way a FB can get blown up (besides tank rounds etc).
If an infantry squad found a FB an Engineer would need to be send in to destroy it.
This way the Combat Engineer would be a vital part of the team rather than someone doing his own thing ambushing stuff. ( nothing against ambushing, i like it )

Would make the *captured* enemy Combat Engy kit even more vital...

Defend FOB...Kill enemy Engy as he approaches...take his kit...FOB could become close to indestructible.

Plus, think of all the runway repairs your team could handle!

[Berlancic]

When looking at the big problem, what you want to do is discourage or take out 1 soldier being able to kill a FOB single-handedly. But what you don't want to do is make it so hard to destroy that it is camped.

Knifing the FOB does need to go. There is still a possiblity of 1 combat engineers attacking an FOB, in a 2-man squad. But we need to make some effort ourselves; we should start learning how to place good, concealed FOBs. Or start using small forces to defend FOBs. I understand that that makes an impact on the battle on the front, as less troops are there to fight. However, if you sit on an FOB with 3 people, armed with appropriate kits to defend, covering avenues of approach, you theoretically should be able to defend the FOB without it dieing. Theoretically. Apart from that, some kits restricted with incendiary sounds good, maybe more to overunn, no knifing the radio, perhaps tougher to destroy (e.g. 2 incendiares to reduce the FOB to the wrecked state).

[Ferris Bueller]

I agree with your sentiment Berlancic, with the sole exception of learning to place concealed frirebases. 99% of the time, its not possible. Due to problems with the BF2 engine, firebases have a tendency to spawn 10 feet tall at random, as well as being completely visible through fog because of engine-related texture mismatches. Yesyerday, I was able to spot a firebase that was over 400m away and concealed behind 300m of trees from the road on Fools Road. Its not a player problem so much as its a FOB problem most of the time.

[Berlancic]

Ah, well that is a problem hehe. Well all you can do is your best I guess.

[Startrekern]

I agree with your sentiment Berlancic, with the sole exception of learning to place concealed frirebases. 99% of the time, its not possible. Due to problems with the BF2 engine, firebases have a tendency to spawn 10 feet tall at random, as well as being completely visible through fog because of engine-related texture mismatches. Yesyerday, I was able to spot a firebase that was over 400m away and concealed behind 300m of trees from the road on Fools Road. Its not a player problem so much as its a FOB problem most of the time.

Firebases spawn precisely ten meters from you. If you want them short, you have to put them on something flat where there's no other statics around.

You can put a firebase inside the stairwell at the tunnel complex on Kozelsk if you do it right. You can bury one halfway in a wall. You can make one spawn so tall that it's nearly impossible to get at to knife and you have to incindiary it to destroy it.

There's a billion things you can do with them if you do it right.

[Alpha_s9]

Firebases spawn precisely ten meters from you. If you want them short, you have to put them on something flat where there's no other statics around.

You can put a firebase inside the stairwell at the tunnel complex on Kozelsk if you do it right. You can bury one halfway in a wall. You can make one spawn so tall that it's nearly impossible to get at to knife and you have to incindiary it to destroy it.

There's a billion things you can do with them if you do it right.

Yeah but they never do what you want them to the first time, meaning 10 minutes trying to get a FOB placed.

[chrisweb89]

Firebases are very tricky to deploy. I have place them on perfectly flat groudn with nothing nearby to mess them up, and they have been 10 feet tall. When reading the realit mod forums I read a suggestion of being able to easily put Fbs in buildings like the muttrah buildings. One of the devs said it would be possible if the model was made smaller as long as it was limited to being inside a building not a smaller FB outside. I would really support this idea of hiding a FB inside an enterable building then making a fortress out of it. Hopefully the devs can figure out a way to implement this and will.

[Startrekern]

I seriously disagree with the radio-on-a-table-in-a-building style FOB. They'll be just as impossible to find as rallies and will be used as 'team rallies' rather than actual bases..

[Rudd_medicman]

"First off knifing needs to go"
I disagree

its a spawn point, barely any1 uses the FB base as cover, when your standing on som1s spawn point, you win that little battle, if you were able to sneak in as one guy and kill a FB, then the defenders were either non-existant or just plain bad.

you can't knife foxholes and 50cals, which are actually used, so its fine.

[chrisweb89]

But thats what a lot of FBs are used as now. People just deploy them in hidden spots with no assets for everyone to spawn off, being their soul purpose.