No rally point feedback thread - PR .874b

[d1sp0sabl3H3r0]

To answer those who have responded to my observations about the changes I've noticed since the implementation of this change:

Yes, it *is* me that has noticed and felt these changes. Others have noticed the same as well (both stated in this forum and also in-game). If you do not notice these changes, good for you. This type of discussion, to me, is the same as disagreeing with others over their stated choice in music or art or even pizza. To each his own, and just because one player has an experience different than another does not mean either is right or wrong, or they are doing something right or wrong, or that the game play change is right or wrong. It simply is what it is for each, and that's all there is to it.

So ends the Zen lesson for the day.

[Axis_Sniper]

What I am seeing is people want a little piece of both. A FOB-heavy system, but limited rally options for some type of squad independence.

I love both systems. I love rallies, I love FOBs. I would like to see a good compromise between the two.

Maybe a rally point that can be placed every X amount of times, which lasts Y long. But they are unspawnable unless they are atleast 2 squadmembers or so within a reasonable distance from it. Or make it so when 3 people spawn from the rally, it becomes destroyed. Or if the SL dies, and respawns on the rally, he must place a new one.

Make a rally what it is, a fallback point for a broken squad. Not a squad's personal Firebase where they can spam bodies onto a flag. Maybe give the SL 1 rally per life. He gets his personal spawn, but it's a valuable asset and if overrun, won't be available until he dies and respawns again.

[AlmightyLion]

Im just gonna quote myself, from the first page:

(This is just some examples of how to nerf the rally system, I have not thought so much on it..there is probably better ways)

Instead of removing the rallys completely:
*Set a timer between dropping new rallys (If you drop a rally, you need to wait a certain time before dropping another one) , to encourage tactical thinking.
*Increase the timer when you can drop a new rally after it was taken down, to prevent people spawn in when you are defending in a building (like kashan bunkers) And make it harder to recover from a situation when you lost most of your SQ and your rally. This would make people to really fall back to recover, regroup and face the the obvious- they lost that fight.

I think it would make people use the FB more and appreciate them more, without removing the good aspect of the rally.

I didnt like the removing of the rally from the first game I played and I still dont like it. They shouldnt be removed compelty, they should be "nerfed" in a way that keeps the good aspect of the rallys(removing the rally spam, ect) and this would also force people appreciate the FB more. Win-Win siuation, thats is just how I would like it to be....


Edit: But I have to admit; I played Jabal and Fools Road, the other day - it was the first maps that I saw the without-rally-gameplay working (except the small maps, but they are going to get removed anyways). But the tickets need to be lowered on the big maps, thats the only thing that could make me accept the without-rally gameplay today...

[snooggums]

Here's some examples of frustrations with being SL (even though I still enjoy it).

One squad member falls into a terrain feature (like the rough rocks on Barracuda) during an assault (Medic), assault succeeds with two people, rest have to walk.

A flag is captured, must wait on supplies before building a spawn there to cover the area. Trans chopper that was responsive and ready to bring crates when the flag was captured crashes on the deck (the rails were glitched into the deck), the two minutes it takes for them to respawn and warm up again means the FOB finally gets started when the enemy returns, so all troops shoveling when assaulted. When you don't have a responsive supply line you can't even blame the slow supplies.

The blob means that when one flag is captured everyone goes with the blob, so the flag they leave is immediately overrun. I can't be both SL and commander at the same time...

I enjoy taking the time for a long flanking maneuver (walking simulator isn't so bad when there is a reason to be walking, and there is danger). Someone disconnects and a new member joins. Since we are flanking there is no way to have that person catch up. If the disconnect was the medic or AR, then we are screwed and the time flanking was wasted.

If a FOB is built and defended then the slower game play guarantees an artillery attack will remove all of the structures built for a good infantry defense.

If a player is not responsive and has a limited kit (AR or medic) kicking them from the squad makes any kind of travel pointless because you have to wait for them to die so you can have a member request the kit. But if you are pushing there will be nowhere to request the kit, or for them to spawn with the kit.

-------

All of that aside I enjoy squad leading more because people do respond better lately, follow orders and don't wander too much. Heck, I can even keep insurgents more focused because they know that a good assault on BluFor really counts because of the lower chance of a wandering respawner ruining a good ambush.

[Delta*RandyShugart*]

I dropped my fruit loops in shock when I read the removal of rally points. I then threw a hissy-fit and got locked in my room for 15 minutes. When my mom finally let me out, I tried it and it wasn't so bad after all. I actually like it very much now.

True story, same thing happened with broccoli.

Disclaimer: Please don't misconstrue this in any form, I am not calling anyone a child or baby. Just my sick sense of humour shining I guess. What I am trying to put across here, is maybe you should try it out.

I went to my Dr. and he upped my meds, I was rocking back and forth in the waiting room mumbling "No RP where will I spawn?" over and over with the occasional "Wapner's on at five." mixed in, finally upon seeing him he told me that when changes occur, though it might seem misleading and deceptive, in the long run its for the best, and you will adapt to it quicker than you think. Then he upped my meds for a 3 week period, and well its almost been three weeks and I have adapted nicely to it, the rocking back and forth and mumbling has subsided.

D1spo I can relate to what you posted, in no way shape or form do i know your personal experiences from your post, nor am i psychic, but I can relate.

[Skud]

I would hate to be the new guy to the game now...

Where is my squad?
How can I regroup with them?
Where can I spawn?
What kit should I use?

At least with rallies 3/4 of the questions above could usually be answered pretty quickly.

[Delta*RandyShugart*]

I would hate to be the new guy to the game now...

Where is my squad?
How can I regroup with them?
Where can I spawn?
What kit should I use?

At least with rallies 3/4 of the questions above could usually be answered pretty quickly.

Read the manual (i presume it will be updated for .9 and it comes with the mod once downloaded), and within 2 minutes the player will have had all that answered, if the player hasn't read the manual, within 2 minutes all of the above will have been answered in game, or if said over voip, it will be answered over voip.
The last one is asked now, and if its a non-sl and i am either the SL or a squad members, simply saying "why not ask the SL and see what kit is needed" or "I need this kit etc" is all it takes.

[ZaBoo]

I would hate to be the new guy to the game now...

Where is my squad?
How can I regroup with them?
Where can I spawn?
What kit should I use?

At least with rallies 3/4 of the questions above could usually be answered pretty quickly.

Players cannot spawn on a rally point the second time they connect to a map. Lots of people come back after quick breaks, disconnects, SM kicks, CTD, etc. I think people have figured this out by now. "SL, What do you need, where should I spawn?". That is - if the SL doesn't tell them the answer to these questions without them even asking. Just a bit longer walk.

[Diligent_BF2]

I'll take my own unsolicited advice and stop littering this thread with dharma babble, etc. My apologies.

It does seem that Fools Road takes well to the lack of RPs.

[Wookie]

One thing I have noticed about having no RPs is that you pretty much need the whole team communicating(mumble) and working together(probable DEVs intent) to be successful now. There is less and less room for the rambo players or worse rambo squads off doing their own thing.

This no RP style is great for a community like TG that already understands and is good at teamwork. The rub I have noticed is there are too many players that come through the server that aren't onboard the whole team concept(not that they are doing anything wrong). When you are limited to 31 players per side you can't afford to have one fifth (1 squad) or more of your team not fully contributing.

I personally like the changes but when there are too many rambos on my team I find it very frustrating and not fun. So I have "rambo" quit alot more recently.

[starstriker1]

If anyone was looking for an alternative rally nerf, how about requiring them to be placed a specific distance from an FOB? This helps mitigate the hosue of cards effect, since squads can still respawn to defend an overrun FOB, albiet at a distance. It also retains some of the territory control elements of the current setup, allowing an easier assault if you've got an FOB as a launch point without making squads independent of their team's logistics chain. It also forces attacks on an FOB to invest a bit more time and effort to mopping up. Taking out the FOB might stop them from setting new rallies, but it won't stop them entirely until you've cleared the area more thoroughly.

[Adaxa]

Speaking as someone who's relatively new to PR, playing since .75, even then only sporadically, I actually, in retrospect, prefer the old rally system of requiring two SM for a rally. I don't believe that the rally has to be removed, but rather that the squad member requirement for formation is upped. This way, this ensures that a squad has to be working together when preparing for assault, or at least in reviveable distance.

I can deal with the no rally system, but I believe that it would be hard for the fledgling squad leader. For the new squad leader, rallies act as second chances for massive screw ups.

You have to crash a few Ferraris before you can race with them.

Or something.

[DiscoJedi]

*OFF TOPIC* Does anyone have the Cole's Notes version of Ferris' last post? It all looked rather interesting and important, but by god I just don't have enough time to read all that!

[Startrekern]

*OFF TOPIC* Does anyone have the Cole's Notes version of Ferris' last post? It all looked rather interesting and important, but by god I just don't have enough time to read all that!

"APCs and boom and uperpwnd and no spawn and we lost!"

Actually it made for a pretty good AAR..

[bjoffe]

The new additions in v0.874C are:

1. Squad Rally Points expire after 30s from being placed.
   
2. Rally Points cannot be placed with enemies close.
   
3. Limited infantry kits require a squad of 3 to be requested (Automatic Rifleman, Medic, Grenadier, Rifleman AT and Marksman).
   
4. Forward Outposts can be built 200m apart (decrease from 300m).
   
5. Other deployable assets (HMGs, AAs, Foxholes, etc) can be placed up to 200m from the Forward Outpost (increase from 150m).
   

Looking better all the time