No rally point feedback thread - PR .874c

[d1sp0sabl3H3r0]

Some early play-test feedback (Kashan 16, Korengal Valley):

1) The ability to drop a temp spawn is nice to keep the squad together and especially nice for new members to the squad. Otherwise it does not really impact game play.

2) Insurgency, specifically Korengal, does not work. That map is being removed from the rotation until the test is over and the normal rally system returns. It is just un-playable for the US team, as each time it turns into a rape-fest of their main with the whole team there.

Honestly, the game play is about the same. On open maps such as Kashan, the ability to withdraw from contact and "rally your squad" is just not really there. I can see an impact on maps such as Fools Road (which played out the best with .874b) or Muttrah, but on those open maps or smaller maps chances are pretty good that it will not play a major role. It really just allows a squad to get new members with them immediately. However, these are just early impressions, so let's get on the server and keep testing the changes out. I'd also like to see less speculation at this point and actual game-play feedback instead.

[Hablos]

My initial experience with this was really something on the lines "oh well...". I'll grant that it was an exellent way to get new squad mates into the action fast, but it didn´t really change the way I lead in any other way. Might be due to my defensive nature as SL thought. This comes from Kashan, so my thoughts might differ in other maps. Have to try a few more, before I jump to too fast conclusions.

The 30 sec spawn didn´t really help on Korengal either as far as I´m aware.

Edit. ^^What he said with more words than I.

[snooggums]

2) Insurgency, specifically Korengal, does not work. That map is being removed from the rotation until the test is over and the normal rally system returns. It is just un-playable for the US team, as each time it turns into a rape-fest of their main with the whole team there.

A small request:

Please leave the maps where the system does not work in the rotation for at least a few days so players can have a chance to see just how bad the effects are and to attempt alternate options for moving out. I never got to play Korengal in the 'b' test and while I believe it hurts game play I want the chance to see just how bad.

Taliban rallies were removed too right?

[chrisweb89]

Agree with Snoog, we should really try to play and test all the maps equally so that if it doesn't work with the no rally version the Devs can be sure.

[RememberTheAlamo]

So since now the FBs can be placed 200m apart and you can build things 200m away from the FB you can have 4 HMGs and 2 AAs at one place?

[orpal]

All it did is create a spawnpoint for newcomers. Those 50 m don't mean anything to me, but the 200m mark does.

[d1sp0sabl3H3r0]

A small request:

Please leave the maps where the system does not work in the rotation for at least a few days so players can have a chance to see just how bad the effects are and to attempt alternate options for moving out. I never got to play Korengal in the 'b' test and while I believe it hurts game play I want the chance to see just how bad.

Taliban rallies were removed too right?

Seriously? Snoogums - the game play for the US side is horrible on Korengal. We would need to change the server rules regarding baserape for it to be even half way decent.

AAR from today: We spawned at outpost and immediately moved out, knowing that the Taliban rush to the hilltops north of Outpost were already under way. Not wanting to get destroyed by a hail of gunfire we would do nothing about, we ran like scared little girls and hid until intel provided the area for the first cache.

Once we had intel, we moved south across the river to act on it. We were too late to get the first cache, but the next spawned not too far away and we moved in on it. I was lucky enough to find and destroy the second cache. There was no resistance - yet. Soon after, the Taliban descended upon us. Luckily for us, we were linked with Rudd's squad so I used them as a meat shield (sorry Rudd ) and moved away from the contact.

Rudd eventually linked with us near the Taliban base in A8 where we went to destroy their mapper-placed rally and then move to Laniyal (or whatever). Of course by now the Taliban team knew where we were and were coming at us.

Problem #1: Insurgent teams don't care if they die. They have spawns all over the place, from mapper-placed rallies to caches to hideouts that require no logistics at all to deploy. They always have a spawn somewhere on the map.

We made it to Laniyal just in time to get assaulted in full force by the Taliban team. It was of course just a matter of time before we were overwhelmed. Back to main.

In the meantime, the rest of the team was having the same problems as us. The only cache marked on the map was in the cave sw of outpost, so it was a fortress with no way in, especially without a rally point. I guess the SLs could have stayed outside with another squad member to keep crapping out bags to spawn on but they didn't or they got flanked by the enemy team that was no doubt encircling their position like buzzards over road kill.

Problem #2: Korengal is impossible to construct and maintain a firebase for the US team. No matter how many people you have defending it, it will fall. You are left with spawning in the main with either .874b or .874c. Add to it the lack of helicopters and you have 0 mobility to get out.

The entire US team was in main, and by this time the Taliban had managed to acquire several SAW kits. Despite valiant attempts to cross the river or to climb the hills south, we were repulsed repeatedly by a hailstorm of bullets and rpgs. We were trapped and getting mutilated by the second with nowhere else to spawn.

It was at this point that !runnext was issued and the spawn-camping-rape-fest-omatic came to a much-needed end.

Why would anyone want to experience this? Is it like the car accident that you drive by and you know you shouldn't look at the bodies in the road but you just have to?

[dbzao]

You just removed Korengal, right? The other insurgency maps are still there?

[d1sp0sabl3H3r0]

Korengal is still there - I'll take it out tomorrow morning. The maplist remains unchanged until then. I will leave the other maps in.

[mat552]

I have found it very tempting to just use the rallypoints as a radar of sorts. You only get one every few minutes, but if you thought you heard that contact nearby, holding your breath as you try to sneak back behind the enemy to do vicious things to their firebases...

Edit, I'm just going to update this post with new data as I get it.

Just played a round on ramiel. For the restrictions placed on the rally, for now, we might as well not have them. No real reason to place them, as the squadleader is just as likely to get run down and shot as the rest of the squad. I'm beginning to become frustrated with insurgency mode which (apart from basrah) was designed as a concept where bluefor have superior mobility not firepower. Without appropriate devices (effective and well chosen/used airpower (NOT one blackhawk/attack littlebird or two unarmed hueys. The lack of fast and nimble craft that can outmanuver all but the most wily technical gunners is becoming painfully apparent), rally points, large, open flanking areas) to facilitate this advantage, the game mode ceases to function.

[snooggums]

Seriously? Snoogums - the game play for the US side is horrible on Korengal. We would need to change the server rules regarding baserape for it to be even half way decent.

The entire US team was in main, and by this time the Taliban had managed to acquire several SAW kits. Despite valiant attempts to cross the river or to climb the hills south, we were repulsed repeatedly by a hailstorm of bullets and rpgs. We were trapped and getting mutilated by the second with nowhere else to spawn.

It was at this point that !runnext was issued and the spawn-camping-rape-fest-omatic came to a much-needed end.

Why would anyone want to experience this? Is it like the car accident that you drive by and you know you shouldn't look at the bodies in the road but you just have to?

I have no doubt this is the case, but without being able to experience it there is no way to provide feedback, so we are simply reducing the pool of feedback to the people who happened to play it before it was removed 24-48 hours after the start. I'd prefer to leave it in and just change the map at the point that the whole US gets boxed in.

Much like the normal expectation that people don't take HATs out of main in Insurgency, maybe people should stop taking SAWs on Korengal voluntarily. If you don't have them to lose they can't take them from you and their attack on main is reduced to a few scoped riflemen kits and possibly snipers. I realize this is wishful thinking for the first few days, but people got pretty used to the no HAT thing after a few weeks.

I've also suggested the requirements for FOBs be 6 soldiers instead of a crate and removing the non-permanent spawns on Korengal. That puts the two sides on mostly equal footing (other than firebase placement), but I can't support that with gameplay examples without playing the map.

Obviously if the map will be removed it will be removed. But if the majority of people played the beta one day and it was open to be dropped by popular vote I'm guessing it would have.

[d1sp0sabl3H3r0]

I have no doubt this is the case, but without being able to experience it there is no way to provide feedback, so we are simply reducing the pool of feedback to the people who happened to play it before it was removed 24-48 hours after the start. I'd prefer to leave it in and just change the map at the point that the whole US gets boxed in.

Much like the normal expectation that people don't take HATs out of main in Insurgency, maybe people should stop taking SAWs on Korengal voluntarily. If you don't have them to lose they can't take them from you and their attack on main is reduced to a few scoped riflemen kits and possibly snipers. I realize this is wishful thinking for the first few days, but people got pretty used to the no HAT thing after a few weeks.

I've also suggested the requirements for FOBs be 6 soldiers instead of a crate and removing the non-permanent spawns on Korengal. That puts the two sides on mostly equal footing (other than firebase placement), but I can't support that with gameplay examples without playing the map.

Obviously if the map will be removed it will be removed. But if the majority of people played the beta one day and it was open to be dropped by popular vote I'm guessing it would have.

Ok. Be careful what you wish for

[Sabre_Tooth_Tigger]

We were trapped and getting mutilated by the second with nowhere else to spawn.

It was at this point that !runnext was issued and the spawn-camping-rape-fest-omatic came to a much-needed end.

Why would anyone want to experience this? Is it like the car accident that you drive by and you know you shouldn't look at the bodies in the road but you just have to?

Sounds like left 4 dead, excellent Korengal needs several Vulcan miniguns like the ones at kashan main base. I'd quite like if every main base had major defences of some sort though sometimes it just doesnt work due to it being a game and all. The defence on fools road can be epic with all those cannons sometimes


I saw one vid they had a Phalanx in the main base to stop mortars I think


[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tMWr3OY0xEM[/media]


[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YVt7dq-magE[/media]

[Portable.Cougar]

Watched a squad spawn in front of me, not cool

[Dick Blonov]

"Squad Rally Points expire after 30s from being placed"

First thing that came to mind when I read this was that the squad leader along with one man could just sit back ...

So make SL+2 a requirement to place a rally. And with a time limit, a rally point now becomes a rally point. I like that idea.

DB