No rally point feedback thread - PR .874c

[Namebot]

So, my new rig is up and running and have played A, B and Now C. I like the fact that rallies are still here sort of, but, would it be possible to have them set able once every 3 minutes with no "overrun" timer, unless they are overrun or destroyed? I like the idea of not being able to constantly drop rally's but like I mentioned earlier being an INF squad leader. Is a royal pain without a rally, especially if there are no transport squads running.

Last night my INF squad was defending both bunkers on Kashan, and received not more than 3 crates in 2 hours. We were at the mercy of our team. If some of my squad went down, the only place we could spawn was on a firebase, and if they went down we were up the creek. If we were able to place a strategic Rally, we would be able to be more effective.

I know that it may not seem like a big deal, but if you are in an armour squad, or a chopper squad... you have a lot more independence. As Infantry, we are dependent on others, and not having a rally to spawn on makes us even more dependent.

I've also noticed that Flag control doesn't seem to matter as much as it once did. Is this the case? Or am I imagining that?

You didn't get any supplies because no one was running supplies anywhere. The change game changes have no bearing on that.

Armor, helos, and infantry each have their advantages and disadvantages.

Much how attack aircraft are reliant upon ground units to spot targets and threats, infantry will now sometimes be reliant on transport vehicles to move them over long distances.

[Ivan_the_bad]

Its an okay change, i would still prefer no rally point as i have since they were introduced. No rally points came and now its gone. Its like, Putting a sweet in a childs hand and watch him smile then just before they closes their hand, you grab the sweet and say NO ITS MINE! HAHAHAHAHA!!!!

I feel cheated :'(

[fullkontact]

I prefer this new system....

It means you can still wipe out an enemy squad and know they wont be back for a while giving you a chance to re-build your defences. But also it means if you wipe out 4/6 members they still have the chance of regrouping and placing a RP.

This also means that Squad Leaders are more valued targets for snipers (Provided you get a sniper that works for assisting the team not for kills.)

[Buflak]

I like this a lot, especially the new FB and other deployable distances. I dont see a big difference in no rally or 30 sec rally, except for the new players linking up with their squad which should be achievable by good transport instead. We just need some more cheap unarmored transport assets on big maps. I would kill for a clown car on kashan 32 for example. Or some quads, no idea why are those only on training maps.

Only big drawback is that it encourages rushing. Whoever gets to the objective first and can dig in wins. Since a lot of maps are built around chokepoints it is now only a matter of securing those points and denying the enemy logistics. Best example of this is korengal which in it's current form is indeed horrible for the US.
Objectives became less important, territory control has more priority now which is good sometimtes but often ends up in trench warfare and fixed frontlines. Most of the time it's two blobs fighting against eachother with little chance to relocate those well enforced lines and moving the battle to the next flag.

Overrun system is still a joke in my opinion, numbers are not right. A two men squad shouldn't be able to deny enemy reinforcements just by being close, without firing off one shot even when they are greatly outnumbered.

If devs intend to encourage defending firebases, it would be nice to have more wire/foxhole to place especially now that the radius for them could be intersecting with another FB. That way we could build more complex defensive lines around a position, which i find a lot of fun to do.

[snooggums]

Played Korengal as US last night before it crashed with 30 US tickets left. I joined a bit late (when I was able) at 8pm US time.

Since the infantry squads were either full or two man sniper teams I joined Oddsodz in the Stryker located at main base (he said he had rescued it from right outside the base shortly before). We killed a few overlooking Taliban and defended main base for about 15 minutes.

When a cache popped up just NW of main we headed put to support infantry. Although I was jumpy and killed a few friendlies (sorry cougar, Zaboo and others ) we covered as well a we could while the cache was taken. We attempted to move north across the river to support the next cache push but the Taliban had blown the hillside just south of Outpost and we had to fall back. We stayed alive the whole time as the Taliban were not able to hit our stryker with rockets from a distance, but our limited movement options ensured we would not do much more than cover the open areas of terrain on the mountains and the poopy fields around us.

I only noticed a single FOB go up during that time, right next to us in the Village NW of BluFor main since that was as far as the truck could get. BluFor had taken down 5 caches if I recall correctly when the map crashed at 30 US tickets.

My take: The map is not as bad with the temp rallies as the US was able to stay in the field. The terrain is too restrictive for a crate requirement for FOBs without a trans chopper. The outcome was similar to most times I've played the map prior with the US only being able to take 5 or 6 caches.

My previous suggestion to require 6 infantry instead of a crate for a FOB would improve game play on this map immensely. I would also like to see the rally overrun set to one enemy within the distance and 4 enemies within 100m to overrun a FOB. Taliban should lose their rallies and keep their hideout placements the same.

With these changes the map would be even better than before the no-rally beta.

[Alpha_s9]

I've had a little bit of experience with this and I have to say I like the build changes... especially the ability to build "accessories" further away from the FOBs.

As for the rally change, I'm undecided but I reserve the right to say it sucks. I see potential for abuse from having a rally option, and I haven't decided if that outweighs the ability for a person who's been disconnected to get back to their squad easily.

I do know that using this as a way for a two man truck to get 6 guys and two crates somewhere is not what I'd like to see... but as long as there are plenty of non-crew trans available I guess it's not that big of a deal.

However for example, if the devs intentionally put APCs, two logi trucks, and NO trans trucks in the game this would require the inf squads to be transported by APC only. Using rallies to circumvent this "restriction" should be considered abuse of a game mechanic in my opinion, but good luck enforcing that.

[Slayer816]

I do like this update's allowing of the FOBs 200m apart and 5 of them out at one time. Also, consindering that often players leave and join squads throughout the round, I do feel that this update's 30sec rally time as opposed to no rally at all is quite beneficial.

However,

Limited infantry kits require a squad of 3 to be requested (Automatic Rifleman, Medic, Grenadier, Rifleman AT and Marksman).

This entire beta focus has been on putting more importance on FOB's and less on RP's. Why throw in the limited kit requirement change? IMO, it was fixed perfectly with the official .874 release...leave it alone.

[Skud]

Well...

2 man squads do not deserve those kits. There are already too many damn SAW's and medics on the field as is.

[Golgo13]

Had an awesome round on Asad khal right now. No/limited RP seems to benefit small infantery focused maps the most. I was running around with an saw (and a squad). No longer were hostiles all over the place, something like a frontline formed and I could anticipate the enemies movements and strategically place the saw without enemies coming from all directions because 2 squads sneaked past and placed a rally.

[starstriker1]

Not fond of the new RP setup. I'd honestly prefer either going with a more robust rally system like the previous one, or none at all instead of this sort of system.. and I have to admit being partial to none at all, except on maps like Kashan 32/64 where infantry play is already painful.

If nixing the rallies outright isn't acceptable, another option to try is to go back to permanent rallies, but require 2 teammates nearby to allow spawning, which would feel much less game-y. Alternately, go with a normal rally system but limit them to being placed within 100-200m of an FOB, essentially making them an extension of that FOB allowing either a faster assault or fallback spawns if the FOB is overrun.

Current system, however, rubs me the wrong way.

[sapientiea]

Yesterday I played and SL'ed on Barracuda the whole game. The rally came in handy 2/3 times during the 2+ hour round to allow members of the squad to spawn near me.

We did not use the rally much since we advanced more careful. I really like the idea that you do not have a fixed rally. It gives way for more tactics, because if you killed a squad they will not be on your back 1 minute later.

30 sec Rally or NO rally is fine for me, players have to adapt their tactics and tread more careful over the battlefield.

I have one suggestion maybe for the 30 sec Rally point. One flaw of this is that it is possible to hide as SL with one player and let the 4 squad members attack. Although I would always try toa avoid this kind of play it is naive to believe this will not happen.

One way to solve this would maybe to have more demands when deploying a rally like;
- Needs to be x meter from FOB and/or
- Needs to be x meter from other squad and/or
- Rally can only be set once every 10-20 minutes.

All this would potentially simulate more troops, but no more squads spawn in the back with no support. Dropping behind enemy lines without support (rally firebase) would mean that you are a Special forces squad which has to fend for themselves.

[Wicks]

I do like this update's allowing of the FOBs 200m apart and 5 of them out at one time. Also, consindering that often players leave and join squads throughout the round, I do feel that this update's 30sec rally time as opposed to no rally at all is quite beneficial.

However,


This entire beta focus has been on putting more importance on FOB's and less on RP's. Why throw in the limited kit requirement change? IMO, it was fixed perfectly with the official .874 release...leave it alone.

Negative, the limited kit spam is the single biggest thing wrong with PR at the moment. Absolute opposite of 'team' focused play is the result, 2 and 3 man saw squads running around rambo'ing, hard to counter due to the uperpwn 'realism' of the SAW in particular. Example, SL's running around with the SAW instead of the SL kit. Limited RP system will have little influence on the quality of play if all the FOB's spawn is 3 man SAW squads.

Case in point Jabal, Friday evening as MEC. Pinned by multiple Rambo's I manage to flank and kill the first, whereupon I am then pinned by another SAW, I evade and round a corner where I am pinned by yes, you guessed it another SAW. Fixing the RP/FOB system will be irrelevant to me all the time Vanilla players can just request a saw and dominate, where they simply could'nt before with a standard rifle kit.

[sapientiea]

Well will it solve the SAW problem if they made squads-special kits under control of the SL and limit the total amount of saws in game?

[d1sp0sabl3H3r0]

Haven't really seen too much abuse of the "Hide the SL" trick so far. The change is nice to get new people with you ASAP. However, we've also used it to get to full strength right away by encouraging people to give up and spawn back with the squad to get 6 guns again for a fight instead of clearing and reviving. That's going backwards and I don't really like it - it's too "gamey".

Also, agree with Wickens. Although I'm not sure on the SAW being overpowered, it shouldn't be as prevalent on the field as it currently is, so I'm up for raising the requirement to SL + 3 to get that kit or any other special kits. This would simply encourage more full squads and would reduce the number of locked 2-man squads that we see outside the beta.

[Golgo13]

Yes, thats the one thing I do not like about the new system, if 2 opposing squads manage to break contact and one gives up and respawns they can overrun the squad if it is reviving.