Re: The Ocean, the Sky, and the Mob; I've Got the Blues

**d1sp0sabl3H3r0** · 11-20-2009, 12:15 AM

First, I think Seal is a brilliant poster and very creative in getting his message across. Great post.

Now, here's my issue:

We've opened another feedback thread on the changes when I've specifically asked to keep them confined to one. Why? First, I'm a dick. Second, I don't need to see 30+ threads on why people hate the changes because of whatever reasons from they don't like to people to the fact that they think some VOIP software shouldn't be used because it wasn't included in the original game even though we *all* used TeamSpeak prior to Mumble.

Lastly, this *will not* turn into another flame thread like the other two "brilliant" posts turned in to (although I'm too lazy to look at #1, but I know what happened with #2). If people cannot be civilized and respond in a nice way their posts are going to start being moderated. Try to have just a wee bit of a sense of humor about you - please. And try even more to be somewhat polite.

Thanks.

**Namebot** · 11-20-2009, 12:45 AM

These seem to be the main points of the original post:

People moving in large groups seems to be popular and effective now, I don't know how to defeat this.

The mod is moving in a direction which requires a high level of coordination from the entire team. I find many players are not good at thinking about the "big picture" and get tunnel vision on their personal goal, which greatly effects myself and others.

I quit.

Was there some suggestions or constructive criticism or anything else I missed?

**Sabre_Tooth_Tigger** · 11-20-2009, 01:12 AM

[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fw_p8P4DvmY[/media]

[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XhyRpvgm03g[/media]

**Ferris Bueller** · 11-20-2009, 01:14 AM

Originally Posted by d1sp0sabl3H3r0

Why? First, I'm a dick.

Its ok disposable, we love our senior citizens around here!

**TMan** · 11-20-2009, 03:42 AM

PR is what you make of it. I think it totally relies on the Squad Leader to create an independent, intelligent and team supportive stratedgy (not mob stratedgy). Here at TG I think we do a pretty good job of that, but it is because we have some pretty good squad leaders that work hard to create game play that is fun yet serious within the limitations of the BF2 engine behind the scenes.

I personally like the rally point and agree with you to some extent that removal of them has changed some of the play - but only on some maps. I think the discussion on the forum for .874b covered it pretty well (http://www.tacticalgamer.com/battlef...d-pr-874b.html).

With .874c out there is returned use of rallys in limited form. That should help with the mob problem (if it is a problem).

Entertaining post, but you should put your concerns in the forum discussion for the beta test. Remember, this is a beta test to check these very things out for the developers. They may very well agree with you and decide this is not the best direction for PR. Don't get too carried away with the changes, as they are really in testing - we are now a test server for a limited time.

Also, I don't think we are paying these folks, so don't be too critical! Just like the admins here at TG, I don't think these guys are making millions on trying to get us a good playable game.

TMAN

**Skud** · 11-20-2009, 09:16 AM

EDIT: I'm just gonna stay out of this thread.

Double edit: Can't resist.

1. Contribution to TG has never been about money. Sad that anyone would say that right off the bat...
2. I cannot see a downside to mumble, now that we've moderated it to a point where I can tell children to "be quiet"
3. If you didn't use TS, or Mumble, then you're squad is not helping the team.
4. Those "other" things *you guys* do being valid; opinions.
5. I just worked a 14 hour mid-shift, so...

I think think this thread should be about pie.

**fullkontact** · 11-20-2009, 09:29 AM

I agree with skud.

But I can see what is being said about the Blud Mob

Now, this isn't the case. A well defended flag can be held off agaisnt the Blue mob. I've seen it before. Albiet a few times but seen it none the less.

Though, the example you're giving seems to be more so on other servers. With TG, if you get |TG| tags leading squads or regular players then you sharp see that we ARE infact teamwork orientated. It might not seem like that to somebody who is not on mumble or TS or whatever is being used at the time. But we do help each other and work together no matter what

Such as the other day for example. I was leading 1 squad on Archer, Startrekkin was leading another. We both loaded into 2 humvees (2 5 man squads) and we moved out. 2 other non-mumble humvee's actually followed us and provided support most of the way until eventually breaking off and being horribly destroyed.

Myself and Star decided to approach from another direction, we held out on a ridge line for about 2 mins before being overpowered by the Zerg but we pulled back with both humvees and went in again. We kept this up. a few people rage quit and we continued to assault until I had to leave to cook.

But at the end of it all, we worked together. We even had non-TG memebrs working with us. It didn't work out but we DO care abotu teamwork.

**Alpha_s9** · 11-20-2009, 01:29 PM

Originally Posted by Startrekern

It doesn't matter. It's necessary for coordination between SLs. That's the reason the SL channel exists.

It makes coordination between SLs easier, but it's not the only way. And yes, there is way too much chatter on mumble because people can't keep there damn mouth's shut for 2 and half minutes while we wait for deployment. (That and many other examples of people who talk too much.) The only thing that's ALMOST as annoying as this is someone who constantly spams "I NEED AMMO" for about 20 minutes.

If people used radio discipline I would use mumble... but as of right now there are way too many people that like to hear their own voice to make it worth my while. I'll also add that very important information for my squad has been drowned out by my SL or squad mates because they were listening to a story on mumble... resulting in very bad things up to and including the wrath of Alpha.

So if you're gonna say something as stupid as:

Originally Posted by TheSkudDestroyer

3. If you didn't use TS, or Mumble, then you're squad is not helping the team.

Then I guess we just can't be friends.

**Hablos** · 11-20-2009, 01:51 PM

Originally Posted by WDT_Alpha_s9

If people used radio discipline I would use mumble... but as of right now there are way too many people that like to hear their own voice to make it worth my while. I'll also add that very important information for my squad has been drowned out by my SL or squad mates because they were listening to a story on mumble... resulting in very bad things up to and including the wrath of Alpha.

Rep +. I totally agree. I use mumble, but nowadays I feel like deafening myself because people talk about some utter nonsense. It´s really not fun to defend an objective for 20 minutes when your eardrums are constantly polluted with non essential information, which cuts out your own SL, about racecars, pies (I like pie as much as anyone

) or whatever.

**snooggums** · 11-20-2009, 01:53 PM

In my experience the blue mob (ie around 2/3 to 3/4 or more of the team together) loses sight of objectives:

In AAS the mob moves from one flag to the next in vBF2 style, leaving no one to defend because everyone wants to be in the mob.

In Insurgency the BluFor mob moves so slow they rarely get all the caches. The Insurgent mob draws attention to the cache location or is not around to defend it.

This isn't every time, but I would say the mob is more likely to fail that succeed. Even three squads moving together is not a mob in my eyes, as that is about half a team.

**Portable.Cougar** · 11-20-2009, 01:58 PM

If you quit who will rescue tanks driven out of bounds on Kashan?

Who will get verbaly abused becasue of a clan tag?

If you must stay away till .9. Some fresh maps could give us all some fresh looks at a older gamer.

Delta*RandyShugart* · 11-20-2009, 04:16 PM

Seal,

I liked your post, it didn't come across as whining, not for a second. It does show how in some cases that the blue mob is in fact flawed, or, that sometimes the blue mob is used in a way that detracts from the actual offensive objective or defensive action needed.

I like how infantry and IFV's, and other Mechanized Armor units and even transport helo's have to be on the same page with squads now. I really enjoy seeing and being apart of Mechanized Armor Transports working in conjunction with Infantry, I can't get enough of it, I especially enjoy it while using mumble, and when in the SL mumble channel people don't spam like my experiences on TS.

I also have enjoyed working in conjunction with other squads, and on certain occasions enjoy being in a platoon type setup, while moving out to secure or defend a objective.

Now, would the above be considered a blue mob? Maybe to some, but if its multiple squads working together it might be looked at as teamwork, maybe a form of teamwork not really seen before or not really seen in a long while.

**Skud** · 11-20-2009, 06:54 PM

Protip: If some un-house trained child is on mumble blabbing and blabbing, simply start telling them to "be quiet"

Usually, they'll be quiet after you say such things. If not, immediately start sobbing about your game being ruined by them.

**sirsolo** · 11-20-2009, 08:51 PM

Unfortunately, even a game that's made everything from running more than 300meters in one go, shooting a sniper rifle straight for any distance, and having the tank as a limited support weapon impossible, the teamwork can be sidestepped and turned into a nade fest.

The same problem is in the reason for taking the RP's out. A constant onslaught of troops makes defence hard? I was under the impression that defence was supposed to be against a barrage... not a sit-on-your-ass duck hunt, which they might have just turned it into.

That however is unlikely. I havnt been on the server yet, but I can imagine one of the two scenarios:
1) Nobody attacks, since attacking is now too hard
2) Nobody defends, and it turns into a tug of war for sprinting across the map.

The only way the PR team can make this game work the way they want it to, is a mandatory and difficult tutorial based around the teamwork mindset that each person must pass before being allowed to play online. Till then, it's just expanding the versions until nothing is nerfed.

On a side note:
Skud, I dont mean offense, but from a "I come here every so often just to check up on things" perspective, you seem to be the

guy around here. All I seem to read from you is the troll police, where if there's a slight counter-current complaint, it's trolling. Im not around much and dont read all your posts, but there seems to be enough to give me that impression.

**Skud** · 11-20-2009, 09:21 PM

You caught me.

I do have a low tolerance. Call Equal Opportunity.

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