Re: al muthana WIP, Rudd would like your input

**Rudd_medicman** · 11-26-2009, 10:52 AM

"what would be REALLY cool is if you put in enough villages and points of interest to make it AASv3."

there isnt really enough room, also I am at the max number of destructable objects. Also I like that there is enough room for vehiclular manouvre. Also I hate AASv3, sometimes it makes great rounds sometimes it makes crap rounds. I prefer large capzones so that the players can decide what to do while still having areas that guarentee contact.

"needs moar view distance,
idk it feels like im playing on kashan but with qwai view distance "

view distance is 150m longer than kashan actually

"Why don't you put an oasis instead of the bunkers ? Perhaps a knoll so Armor can't roll up ? That would make this map even more enjoyable. "

what would make it different to the village?

"
It sucks. I hate it. Your a noob. "

WHY DO YOU SAY THIS WHEN ALL I DO IS SHOW YOU LOVE!!!??!

**orpal** · 11-26-2009, 12:03 PM

You asked for my opinion and you've got one.
I think Oasis on flat knolls out of armor's reach would be a nice change.

**bjoffe** · 11-26-2009, 12:07 PM

Just spend 5 minutes getting a first impression.
SW Village looks like a good place for infantry to hang out, but im not sure i buy all those trees in the middle of the desert, without a oasis or river close by.
Overall looks promising.

**Rudd_medicman** · 11-26-2009, 12:12 PM

"without a oasis "

there is an oasis in the village

note, 2/3 of the olive groves will be replaced with overgrowth fields when I get around to it.

"You asked for my opinion and you've got one. "

yeah...and then I asked you a question about it

**orpal** · 11-26-2009, 12:20 PM

It will change the battle as we know it, don't you get bored attacking villages that look alike. Again this is strictly from my point of view, and I haven't played the map yet.

If I possessed skills like you, I would make korengal-like hill for infantry only, maybe make multiple smaller hills with the same concept. Make some tunnels there as well and it's going to be my favourite map. I'm sure it's a great map but if you have a chance to do something different I think this is the way to go.

**MarineSeaknight** · 11-26-2009, 12:51 PM

Be the first mapper to put longer runways, you'll turn heads (and save pilots).

**Rudd_medicman** · 11-26-2009, 01:17 PM

even I can land on this map, and thats saying something.

**fullkontact** · 11-26-2009, 01:28 PM

Originally Posted by MarineSeaknight

Be the first mapper to put longer runways, you'll turn heads (and save pilots).

If you cant land on the runways we have already then you shouldn't be flying :P

**Mix0lydian** · 11-26-2009, 01:31 PM

Looks great, at the very least it will be undoubtedly more enjoyable than kashan.

The thing that made kashan a borefest is the tendency for 90% of the round to be focused on the bunkers, and the fact that infantry is either pinned in there (resulting in either boredom from looking at the same damn bunker statics or rape from armor) or are 120mm sniped everywhere else on the map thanks to the villages that can be shot in to from elevation.
Looks like you increased the number and variety in design of "infantry" flags (as well as surrounding them with level ground, yay!!) while still leaving room and even adding in view distance for assets. Can we has more view distance pls? It's worth a shot whenever you get the chance to stress test.

**Googol** · 11-26-2009, 02:00 PM

I agree with what others have said regarding elevation. I really like how only one area is truly elevated and it's a flag! The rolling dunes are also very nice. The only thing that irks me is that the bunker complex and bunker line are very, well, ugly...

Also, it'd be really cool to see an armor layer on this map as opposed to a Kashan-esque jets layer vs choppahs layer. Maybe 6 tanks, 3 APCs, and some trans helos?

**orpal** · 11-26-2009, 02:14 PM

Is it possible for this hill to get steeper and put some trees and vegetation on it ?

Maybe make it so steep it's only access is through tunnels around the hill, or perhaps small paths leading up? Maybe make one main hill with relief like this and two smaller ones with vehicle accessibility.

**mat552** · 11-26-2009, 09:16 PM

A very.. interesting tactical scenario.

The large civilian village to the southwest is very vulnerable to any aircraft that ambles its way. In two passes with the eurofighter, I managed to level roughly 85% of it, using all 6 aa missiles, both bombs, and most of my guns. I also came to the realization that the asset balance in the air will lead to some interesting differences in how the maps are played. The MEC are slow, skycows and su-25s, but can bring a lot of hurt. The Brits are quick, but the tornado has less staying power versus infantry and the lynx is good for little more than quick insertions, and is unable to drop supply crates. It's a very fun mix, and I look forward to seeing how it works out.

Once I ditched my aircraft and reloaded the map, I started my ground passes. It's hard to get a precise feel without the ability to gun a tank or apc, but I get the feeling that very little support will be had from armor on the primary flags. While Kashan overdid the number of locations armor can fire from, I'm left wondering if your map swings the pendulum too far in the other direction. Like I said though, I can't get a good feel with only one person.

All around, I love it. I'm sure there are no suggestions that I can make that you can fix (objects not drawing until you're danger close) or stuff that other people haven't already suggested.

I highly recommend making this map as Al Muthana Day 1 and Al Muthana Day 2, with Day 1 focusing on ground operations, 16 as infantry, 32 as armor, and 64 with armor and transport helicopters. Day 2 could be an escalation with 16 as Armor with transport and scout birds, 32 armor with attack helicopters and transport birds, and 64 as the heavy layer with jets, armor, transport helicopters. Or something like that. (No differences in flag layouts or whatnot, purely for more versions of assets.)

Good luck!

**Rudd_medicman** · 11-26-2009, 09:34 PM

Originally Posted by orpal

Is it possible for this hill to get steeper and put some trees and vegetation on it ?

Maybe make it so steep it's only access is through tunnels around the hill, or perhaps small paths leading up? Maybe make one main hill with relief like this and two smaller ones with vehicle accessibility.

if this was 2k then yes that would be really good, but since its 4k I have to contend with severe restrictions on how I can use terrain. Basically it'll look great in the editor, then I'll load it up ingame and the terrrain will morph all over the place

I will eventually be adding more rocks to this area, then trying to use them to carve paths that will try to imitate goat paths.

I'm avoiding trees away from the water source of the village, after some thought I'm going to remove the vegitation found at the village SW of the FOB. Though PLEASE download the map and have a look, as I said those screenies are old.

"The large civilian village to the southwest is very vulnerable to any aircraft that ambles its way. In two passes with the eurofighter, I managed to level roughly 85% of it, using all 6 aa missiles, both bombs, and most of my guns. I also came to the realization that the asset balance in the air will lead to some interesting differences in how the maps are played. The MEC are slow, skycows and su-25s, but can bring a lot of hurt. The Brits are quick, but the tornado has less staying power versus infantry and the lynx is good for little more than quick insertions, and is unable to drop supply crates. It's a very fun mix, and I look forward to seeing how it works out."

I fully agree, and don't forget the MEC get BMPs, and the brits only get Warriors (though I'm not going to get hung up on assets at this point) I was thinkin the MEC would get 2 BMPs, 4 tanks, 1 BTR, the Brits would get 2 Warriors 5 Tanks, 1 scimitar to balance the TOWs.

"I managed to level roughly 85% of it, using all 6 aa missiles,"

Yeah, I really didn't realise that the AA missles were so fantastic until I made the map. The final map will probably only feature 1 fighter per team as a result.

**mat552** · 11-27-2009, 09:18 AM

Originally Posted by Rudd_medicman

I fully agree, and don't forget the MEC get BMPs, and the brits only get Warriors (though I'm not going to get hung up on assets at this point) I was thinkin the MEC would get 2 BMPs, 4 tanks, 1 BTR, the Brits would get 2 Warriors 5 Tanks, 1 scimitar to balance the TOWs.

Absolutely awesome. Asymmetrically balanced combined arms...the very thought makes me drool...

Originally Posted by Rudd_medicman

Yeah, I really didn't realise that the AA missles were so fantastic until I made the map. The final map will probably only feature 1 fighter per team as a result.

Nononono please... I was just testing the limits of it. Squads will realize quickly that there are A) Buildings that CANNOT be destroyed, and B) places outside of the center of the village that allow cap.

Along with the points that it wouldn't be terribly effective, it's also VERY dangerous to do. I was completely defenseless at that point, this is not a tactic I would use in an actual match with other players. While the F16/MiG are the best weapons to completely level north village in kashan, people rarely do it, because it leaves them short of weapons, places them in danger on an attack run, and even if they're desperate, it's not an efficient use of resources.

..Sorry, I guess I just got caught up in the possibility of having/being a wingman that can stay caught up with the other aircraft. Please don't take the second away.

**Brock_Landers** · 11-27-2009, 04:10 PM

looks interesting.

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