Re: Aircraft landing in quinling and kashan!

**d1sp0sabl3H3r0** · 11-30-2009, 12:22 PM

I do think about it differently. The rules clearly state that an aircraft may be engaged up to the point it has landed. It can't be any clearer than that. As soon as you start trying to define concepts such as "landing" or "taking off" into the rules then there is going to be problems with players looking to exploit the rule and more importantly with any admin decision to enforce the rules.
Why?

Simple. My definition of "landing" might not necessarily jive with your definition or T-Man's definition or Cougar's definition or Nardini's definition, etc. etc. While we all have different levels of tolerance for certain things, those judgment calls we make to enforce the rules are basically consistent.

More importantly, the rules we have defined now everyone understands. The concepts of not teamkilling, not baseraping, no bunny-hopping - those are pretty simple. Now we are going to extend protection to jets (I realize this is being discussed in theory, not as an actual rule change) outside of their main because the main "doesn't really exist where it does"? Why? Does that mean that we should make the wheeled assets sit inside the main for an extra 3 hours before they can be driven out because they don't really spawn where they spawn on the map? It is what it is.

Kashan: If there is AA in A2 - almost 3000m from the MEC main - and the frogfoot flies over it to land, then why shouldn't it be shot down? What if MEC Outpost (or whatever the MEC flag is near the bridge) is in play, there are US forces there (including an avenger), and the MiG flies to the west to land - can it be shot down? Or is it protected? Would we be expecting too much from the players on the US team to let it go by so it can land, re-arm, get back into the skies well above the range of their AA yet it is able to bomb them into oblivion? How is that fair?

**daveyjonesjr** · 11-30-2009, 12:27 PM

Rules might be very hard to enforce indeed, and it might sound crazy, but without it tactics like those will always take happens, We might be able to avoid the AAV 1 or 2 times but in the end the AAV will always have the upper hand, using this tactics you will always succeed , is it not matter of skills or luck but more a matter of patience.

About 2 weeks ago, i was on the mec team flying an aircraft again, this time though we got destroyed and we coudlnt fly 30 sec without the f16 shooting us down , well 2 of my squad mate had the brilliant idea of the doing the same thing and they shot him down, I wasnt feeling very good afterward only because this is not a legitimate kills and they didnt had any merits for that kill, I told them it was lame and it was..... like i said, I how know it feels to be on the loosing side, but people still should use common sense and have a bit of respect for the opposite pilots, you shouldnt feel proud of doing such tactics.

What I want is people who almost never fly aircraft, to try and experience it, your opinion might change a lot when your the one who get shot down like this.

As a personal opinion, I think aircraft should be removed from project reality, the maps are just too small and tactics like this always destroy the gaming experience of pilots, but then again without aircraft theres no airstrike wich is not really realistic.

Rules might be too hard to enforce, but if people would restrain themselves and have a bit more respect for the opposite pilot we wouldnt have such talk!

edit: disposable you are right about the mec side as well, but its a lot different from the us side, bunkers and north outpost is so close to the mec landing path that is it easy for the team to spot that AAV and report it to the pilot, it is the opposite on the us side....yesterday that AAV wasnt at south outpost, it was almost right at the end of the runway where theres a gap in the mountain.

**d1sp0sabl3H3r0** · 11-30-2009, 12:31 PM

Originally Posted by daveyjonesjr

What I want is people who almost never fly aircraft, to try and experience it, your opinion might change a lot when your the one who get shot down like this.

Love to, but it's always the same names in the CAS squads before we can get a chance....

I'd like to have the guys who always fly jets experience the thrill of being on the ground, having to let those jets have their protected airspace so they can land, re-arm, and drop a 2000-lb. J-DAM on their head inside the bunkers that we just spent the last hour fighting over dodging SAWs, tanks, BMPs, Bradleys, H-AT snipers and real snipers who want a 0-second deviation penalty and can see through our medic's smoke so they can headshot us again once we get revived.

[EDIT] Davey - if you think it was a clear case of baserape then get the BR file, make a movie or take screen shots and submit to the admins via the Contact an Admin forum. I promise you that if we feel it was a clear case of baserape then the player(s) responsible will be dealt with.[/EDIT]

**daveyjonesjr** · 11-30-2009, 12:41 PM

Yes totally agree with you and im guilty of it, I call myself an asset whore everyday...lol

but like I said before, the people who doesnt fly to often fail most of the time(is it more matter of luck really) Pilots always been hated, if they get shot down too quickly they get labelled as bad pilot but if they never get shot down they get labelled as "asset whore"

Before ive been able to fly aircraft ive done a lot of INF and armor on kashan and i cant count how many time i got destroyed by those aircraft, and its very annoying indeed, so one day if figured ill be the one doing this for once and i just got sticked to it.

Disposable if you want to fly the aircraft one day and do some payback ill be honored to spot for you or anyone else for that matter

edit: Yesterday it might not have been agaisnt the rules, i wasnt on the runway yet , i was in the base protected radius but the AAV was not so it wasnt against rules, but what i want is people to have more respect for opposite pilots and try and get a true legitimate kill, wich almost happened a few times yesterday. I know they were pissed, i would have been too but this tactics didnt changed anything to the outcome of the round, it was just plain revenge.

**Namebot** · 11-30-2009, 12:49 PM

As far as the jet landing rearming and flying high only to drop bombs and repeat, I expect this is supposed to be the reward for having a good pilot?

I like to keep the fight away from the main bases if possible. Any fighting near it inevitably turns into rules questioning and bickering, which is what I want to avoid in this situation.

So I suppose I am just trying to encourage everyone to take the fight to the field before you corner them in.

**d1sp0sabl3H3r0** · 11-30-2009, 01:14 PM

In no way am I suggesting that the fight is at the main. I don't understand how my example suggests the fighting is near the main in any way, shape or form.

My point is is that this jet could be engaged almost 3000m from it's main as it is decelerating to land and re-arm, only to return and kill those players who could not kill it because of some ridiculous extension of the main base protection.

Additionally, why can't an AAV sit near US Outpost, again almost 3000m from the US main? Should the AAVs be confined only to the bunkers?

How about the MEC tanks and BMPs that like to swing south and east of the middle mountain ranges to jump the US armor, trucks and blackhawks that move to the fight through North Village? Isn't that essentially the same thing as what happens to the jets as they fly near either of the Outpost flags to set up their landings?

At what point is a target valid to be fair to everyone? More importantly, what constitutes fair? Is it fair that a tank can be lased and bombed by a jet it can't see nor that can be shot down by it's AAV escort because the pilot is exploiting the range limitations of the AAV, but that same jet is also afforded protection because it is low and slow in the process of landing on a runway 2000m away? I don't consider that to be fair at all.

I would agree that the fight be taken to the field and away from the mains as well, but I don't think this whole discussion started over a concern about baserape. I think it started because some pilots are mad they got shot down when they didn't think it was very sporting of their enemies to do so. I have nothing against pilots, but I seem to see more sour grapes threads posted by them (being shot down, need to rescue them, etc.) than I do by almost anyone who regularly plays other kits. The responses here, and a lack of sympathy specifically, should really come as no surprise at all to anyone, especially the players who constantly fly.

**Golgo13** · 11-30-2009, 01:49 PM

Groan

**daveyjonesjr** · 11-30-2009, 01:50 PM

Again I understand your point of view, fighting over assets might have happened a lot in the past, but recently people arent so eager to fight over assets, mainly because people find it too hard to be effective with those assets or they just find it plain boring, what people are fighting in kashan are now armors and most of the time the first squad to be created will be an armor squad, this is how it is right now. God sometimes i even join the server 20-30 min late in the round and theres just no CAS squad to be seen. People arent used to do it just usually stay away from it in fear of having a bad reputation like loosing valuable and costly assets.

This made me remember something, about 1 months ago on kashan again, i was spotting for some guys i didnt knew, well it didnt took 2 min that they were both down after doing crazy shi* like low fly bys over bunkers, they didnt say a thing and they just simply left the server in shame probably... I kept asking if someone wanted to be pilot and nobody responded, it is just a clear signs that the fighting days over aicraft assets were over, people didnt want to do it anymore. Armor then became the most wanted assets. That is on the 64 layer version, 32 is another thing...

Theres is so many good aircraft pilots on TG right now that you will always almost have a good pilots and spotters crew against you, it is more a matter of luck then having the most skilled pilot crew. If a good pilot or good spotters is missing then the CAS fail almost everytimes, so weither its an asset whore piloting or new pilot it will not change anything.

In Vbf2 you will alway have a pilot bombing the spawning point killing dozens of guys everytimes, its always the same few guys , those are real asset whore, is it the main reason i never liked vbf2, In pr things are different, even if you have a good experienced pilots crew they may fail 50% of the times.

But like I said i understand you disposable, its very annoying to get killed by the same exact pilot everytime, but you need to understand that this pilot might not do good everyround, its always depend on the team you have and the spotters in your crew.

But i get it, Im flying way too much these times, ill stop flying for a few weeks, Im sorry!

**Namebot** · 11-30-2009, 01:52 PM