Re: Aircraft landing in quinling and kashan!

**Celestial1** · 11-30-2009, 03:07 PM

Originally Posted by thegreatnardini

All in all the 64 version of Kashan just doesn't work any more. The overpowering of the jets combined with lack of spawn points that aren't immediately blown to hell just makes it miserable for the 58 other people on the team. The 32 player version works much better, and until things change we probably won't see much of it on rotation.

Neither Qinling or Kashan shine brightly on the 64 layer air wise.

**Startrekern** · 11-30-2009, 03:08 PM

Hills on Kashan cause the problem making it easy for spotters to spot targets. I think Jets will work better on a mostly flat map..

**Buflak** · 11-30-2009, 03:09 PM

Originally Posted by d1sp0sabl3H3r0

If you're going to talk about Bullseye at least be decent enough to use his name.

I actually ment myself. If you haven't noticed, it's mostly me doing the shoveling with him. So does that make us shovel whores or just two guys doing an important job for the team?

I most likely shouldn't have said anything in the first place, but calling people whores is not really respectful in my opinion. That's all i wanted to say.

**daveyjonesjr** · 11-30-2009, 03:21 PM

Originally Posted by Buflak

I actually ment myself. If you haven't noticed, it's mostly me doing the shoveling with him. So does that make us shovel whores or just two guys doing an important job for the team?

I most likely shouldn't have said anything in the first place, but calling people whores is not really respectful in my opinion. That's all I wanted to say.

The team always need "shovel whore logistic squad" just like the team always need "asset whore CAS squad" they are both teamwork and they both need people doing it, When you have someone new who almost never flew choppers or aircraft on a training servers or on a empty servers who comes on the servers they will fail and the TEAM WILL HATE THEM, they will get a bad reputation, I dont see why people who do CAS a lot and are good at it should get a bad reputation as well, I KNOW ITS ANNOYING TO BE KILLED BY CLOSE AIR SUPPORT, is it extremely annoying but this is PR, if you want only infantry fight or armor fight then go play another game, this isnt the game for you, plain and simple!

a CAS squad is helping the team as much as a logistic squad, no matter if they are assets whore or they occasional pilot.......

What Kashan really needs to is a remake, with underground bunkers where you can hide from those evils bombs!

Disposable, i wasnt playing the pity card when i said i wouldnt fly aircraft for a few weeks, I really will, cause I might have abuse it a bit recently, I will let new people fly it, but you guys need to be indulgent toward asset waste cause it will happen.

**Celestial1** · 11-30-2009, 03:39 PM

Originally Posted by daveyjonesjr

a CAS squad is helping the team as much as a logistic squad, no matter if they are assets whore or they occasional pilot.......

Logistic squads are doing a job that 'no one wants to do'.

**d1sp0sabl3H3r0** · 11-30-2009, 03:42 PM

*************REMOVED***************

@Davey - you can fly as much or as little as you want. Despite the fact that players may think other players constantly take certain assets (myself included), no one has ever told any of them that they cannot take them. What you will hear is that they should be shared, and that if someone who normally doesn't get to use an asset asks to participate in that asset squad they should be given a chance.

@ Buflak: My post was intended to be humorous. I should have put one of these -

- in it.

BTW - I'm a SL kit whore. Anyone have a problem with that?

**daveyjonesjr** · 11-30-2009, 03:44 PM

Originally Posted by Celestial1

Logistic squads are doing a job that 'no one wants to do'.

I actually enjoy driving trucks , dropping supplies for other squad, just put some low music and thats it, I can even recall a 3 hour round on fools road about 2 weeks ago where I only did building and supplie dropping, It was with dirtboy and another guy, and even though it was a very long round it didnt matter

Doing CAS is something very boring as well, especially when you get shot down fast or you dont have any spotters in your team.

**Tomato_With_A_Rifle** · 11-30-2009, 05:05 PM

I just think it is very low, for an AAV to wait 30 minutes outside of the main, 3 grids away, just to kill that one jet that has been "beating" you.

I don't care if there happened to be a AA like at north outpost capping it and it saw you so it fired while you were landing. But if you planned to go there, to camp for the longest time, to get that one spot where the jet is easy to shoot down, and don't have to worry about other enemy's to destroying you and just play the waiting game.

Do it if you want, but the pilots will think it was very low for you to do that. Couldn't you just put your AAV outside of the bunkers waiting for the jets to come by and drop bombs or do a strafing run?

And what about the idea of looking around the landing path first before you actually try to land? It may just shoot you down there, you probably don't a lot of ammo left, or any flares.

And if you see it and get away, then what? its not going to go away, i doubt anyone on the team is going to go over there just to kill it. "to get the fly boy rearmed".

**d1sp0sabl3H3r0** · 11-30-2009, 05:17 PM

Originally Posted by Tomato_With_A_Rifle

I just think it is very low, for an AAV to wait 30 minutes outside of the main, 3 grids away, just to kill that one jet that has been "beating" you.

I don't care if there happened to be a AA like at north outpost capping it and it saw you so it fired while you were landing. But if you planned to go there, to camp for the longest time, to get that one spot where the jet is easy to shoot down, and don't have to worry about other enemy's to destroying you and just play the waiting game.

Do it if you want, but the pilots will think it was very low for you to do that. Couldn't you just put your AAV outside of the bunkers waiting for the jets to come by and drop bombs or do a strafing run?

And what about the idea of looking around the landing path first before you actually try to land? It may just shoot you down there, you probably don't a lot of ammo left, or any flares.

And if you see it and get away, then what? its not going to go away, i doubt anyone on the team is going to go over there just to kill it. "to get the fly boy rearmed".

Can I draw comparisons to Fools Road and having the Chechen team camp Dylym village with C4, waiting to ambush the Russian vehicles using their one and only access point to their main to re-arm?

To me it is exactly the same thing as what is being discussed in this thread, but in the case of Fools Road people seem to accept what happens as part of the game on that map and deal with it.

**snooggums** · 11-30-2009, 05:31 PM

Originally Posted by Tomato_With_A_Rifle

Do it if you want, but the pilots will think it was very low for you to do that. Couldn't you just put your AAV outside of the bunkers waiting for the jets to come by and drop bombs or do a strafing run?

Bombers don't have to come in range of the AA to drop a bomb that is lazer targeted, that was pointed out earlier in the thread. As dispo pointed out there are a lot of things that people do that are not against the rules that annoy the victim.

How about camping the main road with C4 and mines on Barracuda west of the main? How about Spandrels that hides in a hull down position to shoot tanks advancing down the road. Those darn Spandrels are so cheap!

Take off and landing are the weak areas for jets, taking advantage of the enemies weakness while within the rules is not cheap and the person who finds it so needs to change their way of thinking, not the other way around. Just like victims of SAWs.

**chrisweb89** · 11-30-2009, 06:36 PM

Wow, this thread has just been repeating the same thing back and fourth for 5 pages. My take on it as someone that likes to fly and likes my assets, but I have also been beaten up by them bad too is that its lame but if it happens to me i'm not gonna complain in all chat because then we get this thread ingame. I myself don't like to ambush, wait ouside their main or any of that just because to me it is:1) too boring for me, I can't stand sitting in the middle of the desert waiting for an aircraft to fly by and land, and 2) I like to keep the fight on the flag and try to create a "frontline" where you just can't drive to outside an enemy base and set up explosives.

The first point I'm going to touch is that the jets are overpowered and very hard to shoot down while engaged in combat from the ground.(ex. bombing for 2000 alt) I agree that it is very annoying when a random bomb falls from the sky where an AAV is looking with no aircraft near it, if the Devs could make it so that bombs required nrmal lock tone like a maverick AGM than i think it wold solve this problem. This would force juets to come below the cloud cover just like when they use their guided missles, when dropping bombs.

When it comes to the relatively new tactic of bombing the bunkers on kashan with 2000 pounders and killing all of the infantry inside there are two things that need to be done. 1) Wire and other FB assets shouldn't beable to block off the entrances to the bunker and leave only one viable entrace where 6 guys are waiting for you. When this did happen was the first time I tried calling for CAS on the bunker flag. If it wouldn't of been for the wire and other assets placed blocking most of the entrances i wouldn't of called in the strike because I knew it was suicide assaulting it. 2) If wire couldn't completely block entrances and be nearly impossible to breach( Just check this thread if you don't rembemer the wire barricades.) then I would be in full support of removing the ability of these bombs to break through bunkers. But as long as people keep building wire ontop and forceing my squad or an assaulting squad through a single entrace I will keep bombing or calling in bombs on it.

As long as aircraft are using a semi realistic way of attacking,(within the PR limits) I don't see how they are overpowered. As long as the aircraft comes withing visual and lock range of AA they can becountered and if aircraft aren't doing this than maybe the DEVs should change them and their weapons to force the use of guns, hydras, and bombs to be within the view distance. Since I am noticing that one trend in this thread is that since they are so powerfull, it is more accaptable to camp them because I just dont see people waiting for a tank to be 200m out of MEC main and start shooting it.

I don't know this for sure and haven't done it before, but I have heard from more experienced pilots than me that it is possible to land by going out of bounds and coming in from the oppostie direction to avoid all of the AA camping. I will try this in an empty server and see if its possible to do without a huge amount of practise and what route needs to be flown to not go out of bounds.

**Namebot** · 11-30-2009, 06:37 PM

The comparison between ground vehicles ambushing and the original topic is weak.

The ground targets have other routes to take OR a much easier ability to retaliate.

**snooggums** · 11-30-2009, 07:02 PM

Originally Posted by Namebot

The comparison between ground vehicles ambushing and the original topic is weak.

The ground targets have other routes to take OR a much easier ability to retaliate.

The point of an ambush is to deny their retaliation by catching them off guard.

While vehicles have different ways to return to base on some maps like Qwai, they only have one real way back on Kashan since there is only one entrance and a whole lot of open terrain on the way there. An AA sitting at 1000m from the landing strip is like a tank sitting 800m from the main return road. Still going to kill the asset on the way back.

**d1sp0sabl3H3r0** · 11-30-2009, 07:04 PM

Originally Posted by Namebot

The comparison between ground vehicles ambushing and the original topic is weak.

In both examples (the OP and the examples following), the other team is camping an area where:

a) they know the enemy has to pass to return to or exit their main
b) they are exploiting the choke point in the map, whether it is by design of the mapper or the game engine itself (map size forces airbases to be too close to a war zone)
c) the team being "camped" is completely at the mercy of their opponents and do not have the initiative in the engagement
d) there is no other way for the valuable assets, be them jets or tanks or logistic trucks, to get through the ambush position without suffering a loss, after which the team may retaliate
e) in both examples, the team with the most to lose may defend the area being camped if they so choose to

It is a perfectly logical and just comparison.

----------------------

I won't go into the whole detail of this, but I've seen some pretty crazy landings in my day. One example sticks out:

The Red Barron Pizza Squadron (now disbanded after an accident) happened to be at my local airport one day in the summer of 2002. I watched them perform one of the coolest short finals I've ever seen.

They were at about 800 ft agl over the runway when they called short final. What? Well, they begin, in formation, to being a tight, descending spiral right over the approach end of the runway, coming out of the spiral in perfect position to land right on the numbers. It was pretty freaking cool to see.

Question: Can the jets in PR do the same thing? Perhaps our pilots could work on practicing this little maneuver and then they can use it to avoid the death zones on maps like Kashan and QinLing. If you can't, well then I guess we're back to debating what is sportsman-like and what isn't.

**daveyjonesjr** · 11-30-2009, 07:11 PM

Im sorry to even have started a thread like this, its seems to have sparked some bad things,
its just that yesterday they said to keep it in the forum, so i though the best thing to do was to postg it on the forum, i wasnt planning on creating conflict on the forum.

If its not against any rules then its alright we will have to live with it and find ways around it, I was only giving an opinion on what pilots might feel about those tactics, thats the only thing, we will have to find tactics against the AAV.

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