Re: My disgust for Al Basrah!

**Coridon** · 04-22-2007, 01:28 PM

"The two things I've learned about al Basrah", written by Cor I. Don. Foreward by Larry Birkhead. No, not really.

The key to this map is the VILLAGE. Seriously.

1) If you're an Insurgent, spawn there and hold it as long as possible. So long as you control the flag you bleed the USMC. I've never been able to hold this flag the entire round, but I think last week we held it until the USMC only had around 150 tickets or so left.

2) If you're USMC, take Village quickly and then relax. Time is on your side! Bleed is gone, and every time you kill an Insurgent they lose a ticket. Every time a USMC soldier is killed he has a good chance of being revived.

Find defensive ground surrounding Facility and hold. Let your air power and armor shell the Facility relentlessly for at least 15-20 minutes before you even go in. When the infantry finally goes in it should do so in force. Have the air power switch to pounding the Mosque and send all ground forces into Facility simultaneously after a lengthy bombardment.

I've never seen this fail if done properly.

**stickyjeans69** · 04-22-2007, 01:57 PM

1. Can't argue with that.

2. in the real world AA and SA-7's are hard to come by for insurgents also me thinks

3. i don't think you realize how powerfull a server is compared to the average desktop.

4. The inability to revive isn't specific to this map, so it's a non-point. (agree with root)

5. The weapons available aren't specific to this map, so again it's a non-point. (agree with root)

6. in my personal opinion 2 hour maps can be very fun. but they have to be large like Basrah as to give many options of attack

7. This is due to smacktards on the server, not the map itself. Again, a non-point.(agreed)

8. The server has the wrong kind of people on it all day, every day. Basrah doesn't cause their number to increase, nor does it drive quality players off the server.(also agreed)
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**Plan6** · 04-22-2007, 02:32 PM

The real problem with AB has to do with Facility and Mosque. These to points are so hard and costly to cap its painful. The fact that they can be recapped is even worse.

- Facility - with three ways in and a whole lot of city around it, Facility has the flaw that it is almost impossible to catch the Insurgents off guard. Because they can park a spawn car right next to the point, while the USMC can't, its easier for them to defend, hold and take back the point. Also because the life span of an Insurgent is so short, they favor RPGs and Nade lauchers, which in the tight area around facility can lead to whole squad kills.

- Mosque - If Facility is bad, Mosque is worse. I have no idea what the designer was thinking when he made a point in the middle of an open area without cover, surrounded by buildings you can get on top of. Getting to this point is a pain due to the amount of open ground you have to cover, but once your there its even worse. Any squad capping this point has my pity when the RPGs, nades, firebombs and 203 rounds come raining down. Smoke doesnt last long enough to save you. The worst part is, to hold all the buildings around Mosque takes about 2 squads + the one squad needed to cap. That only leaves a limited number to hold Facility, which the Insurgents could just Zerg to take back because the USMC cant put up a spawn near right on it.

AB is a fun, neat looking map, but its trying to do to many things at the same time. The map degrades into a stalemate after a while, which is kinda neat. I like a long game, but only one that is back and forth, filled with action and good play. AB is nothing like that, its a slow ticket death as one side tried to take points that are nearly impossible to hold, while the other side avoids getting owned by air power.

**Root** · 04-22-2007, 02:36 PM

Originally Posted by Dirtboy

The map cause this though.

No, Basrah does not cause this. There are crackjumping, foul mouthed, selfish, me-playing, kitwhoring, killwhoring, main base attacking smacktards on the server 24/7. As much as I wish Basrah was on that often, the reality is that it comes up once (maybe twice) a day.

Originally Posted by Plan6

- Facility - with three ways in and a whole lot of city around it, Facility has the flaw that it is almost impossible to catch the Insurgents off guard. Because they can park a spawn car right next to the point, while the USMC can't, its easier for them to defend, hold and take back the point. Also because the life span of an Insurgent is so short, they favor RPGs and Nade lauchers, which in the tight area around facility can lead to whole squad kills.

Yes facility can be quite hard to take. However, when squads camp out near it and make no attempt to capture it, whilst another squad comes halfway across the map, waltzes in, caps the flag and STILL those other squads are camping near it, we have a problem with the players on the server. When that same squad comes all the way back and caps it six times in one map, there's serious need of bans being handed out.

**Jeepo** · 04-22-2007, 02:39 PM

Amen

Edit: Coridon, very valid tactics also!

**Beatnik** · 04-22-2007, 04:18 PM

The current state of this map is such that I won't even play it anymore. There is almost zero variation from game to game, it drags on way too long with nothing accomplished, there's no feeling of "what's going to happen" or "how can my squad affect the outcome", i.e. it's just no fun on either side.

I waited a full 50 or 60 tries on that map to make that assessment. I'm cautiously optimistic about .6, but as of now if I never played this version of the map again it'd be too soon.

**stickyjeans69** · 04-22-2007, 05:10 PM

if there was something i would do to it, i would adjust the map so that you capture village first. then maybe industry. then mosque (remove the facility) then office and then the main base. but thats just me

**Root** · 04-22-2007, 05:13 PM

Originally Posted by Beatnik

There is almost zero variation from game to game

What stratagies do you suggest we employ to deal with this? I'm sick and tired of it being a typical pub server (ie far worse than a TG public facing server). I'm working on squad-level tactics, currently special operations and next flight ops. If you have command-level ideas, Beatnik, then most of us would love to hear them.

**gerardnm** · 04-23-2007, 05:56 AM

Originally Posted by ikill4aliving

there was one night when i was on al basrah and my squad members (we were on the insurgent team) and squad leader were talking about how they didnt like this map. this is because on the 64 size, the US team almost always stays at their main to wait for an air vehicle, thus leaving the insurgents to sit and wait 3-4 hrs until the next map is ended. and when on the 32 size, the US team has NO air support so they can win the map in about an hour or so. this is because the insurgents dont have defibulators. (although i myself like the fact that the PR members made that happen)

I like this map sometimes but only when i have a good squad that on the US team isnt a air vehicle wanter or when on the insurgents team is a squad that doesnt just sit at one base, but rather goes on local patrols when the insurgents have all the flags they can have. *cough*hint for TG*cough*

I m not sure what server you ve been on where "the US team almost always stays at their main to wait for an air vehicle"

Usually there's dedicated air cav units for cobra and the a10's the a10 is air arty on this map if the commander uses it right.

I'd agree however that some people dont use the cobra correctly and just blaze over the area.

It should be used on the outskirts for insurgent hunting not in the city where its RPG magnet.

The key to Basrah is cap the village asap....dont charge the facility but rather destroy the spawn cars around it and then move to facility....get someone to blow the bridges.

Move a squad to get mosque while facility's being capped.

Then try get an apc to mosque and a mobile unit to industry.

As an insurgent...defend village at all costs.

Move then to N of N VCP and use the bottleneck the bridge there creats as an ambush point for heavy vehicles. If possible set up an SA7 squad there as well.

**Steiner** · 04-23-2007, 08:26 AM

I personally really dont got any issues with the map game-wise since I think that it includes a lot of fun and challenging variations for both teams. Open spaces --> groups of buildings --> urban. As I see it so do this map really allow the USMC CO to plan an attack on the city itself, and also coordinate the different assets while it also allow the Insurgents to plan and set up ambushes etc, even though a bit difficult with the lack of overall coordination.

How ever, one thing that makes the map a bit difficult to play, and the rumour tells me that I am not alone with this, is that the first five minutes after the round start is unplayable due to serious lagg. Its the only map in rotation that I have problems with, and hearing others say similar things, made me mention it here as a downside. But perhaps its only a RAM-thing.

**gerardnm** · 04-23-2007, 08:37 AM

Originally Posted by Steiner

I personally really dont got any issues with the map game-wise since I think that it includes a lot of fun and challenging variations for both teams. Open spaces --> groups of buildings --> urban. As I see it so do this map really allow the USMC CO to plan an attack on the city itself, and also coordinate the different assets while it also allow the Insurgents to plan and set up ambushes etc, even though a bit difficult with the lack of overall coordination.

How ever, one thing that makes the map a bit difficult to play, and the rumour tells me that I am not alone with this, is that the first five minutes after the round start is unplayable due to serious lagg. Its the only map in rotation that I have problems with, and hearing others say similar things, made me mention it here as a downside. But perhaps its only a RAM-thing.

Only lags for me on the TG server

**Dirtboy** · 04-23-2007, 09:05 AM

Originally Posted by Steiner

But perhaps its only a RAM-thing.

It is...I first started playing PRM with only 1 gig, then I got fed up and got another one. Now it runs like a champ

**Steiner** · 04-23-2007, 11:08 AM

It is...I first started playing PRM with only 1 gig, then I got fed up and got another one. Now it runs like a champ

Ahh...I do believe that I have found my problem then, given that I only have 1 GB. Either way, thanks! No I know that there is something easy to be done to fix my problem.

**H_nd_of_God** · 04-23-2007, 11:16 AM

I play on a Devfile server (24/7 Basrah) sometimes, ok quite a bit when TG is full or on a map I don't like.

The biggest key to winning for USMC on this map is controlling the spawn cars. If you get just one squad on spawn detail you can easily control the opposition around key locations (mosque and facility).

I love being Special Forces and SLAM-ing spawn cars :P

As for performance, I lag most when the map 1st loads, after a few minutes everything runs fine. I call this time "letting my pc catch up".

**tHa_KhAn** · 04-23-2007, 12:15 PM

This maps only real problem is the length. The other problems can happen any time on any map because of the players, it's just magnified because of the length.

Air assets are neutralized. I prefer playing insurgents for hte change of pace of tactics and how much more satisfying a win on the insurgents side is. I often see a major lack of teamwork when the insurgents get slaughtered. No commander is necessary for a map this simple. Defending one flag is pretty easy. The insurgents should always have 2 ambush squads, 1 Anti-Air squad, and 1 armor squad. Pretty simple, 2 ambushes cut roads/bridges that the armor can use. Anti-air no explanation. Armor is the key and it's main job is infantry supression and anti-air. 1 shot kills for tanks versus Cobra's and A-10's. There are many places that make impromptu tank berms and force the aircraft to be exposed to attack.

However, when you are on insurgents and the US has great pilots and there is little to no teamwork, then yes this map can be horrible because of the length. In other words, the problem with the map is not actually the map, but the players on the server/team and the map just makes it appear more than others.

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