Re: My disgust for Al Basrah!

**lightzout** · 04-23-2007, 12:25 PM

I have to jump in and give Al Basrah some love. Its a freaking brilliant map that challenges players. I see it as a game within a mod. When your team can outsmart the opposing forces and steal a victory facing certain death you have earned your icy cold beverage break!

Its different and its difficult but thats the point I think. I see those as good things in a game world filled by mundane cut-n-paste map layouts that all seem familiar. I know not everyone can pony up for 2 gigs of ram but try spending some time making sure your pagefile and hard drives are optimized because lag would kill my buzz on any map.

But beyond the performance issues lies the great frontier of GTA:Baghdad where there are no rules and bad things happen. Its choatic and ugly not unlike its inspiration. Maybe some people fear wide open spaces or dont like exploring because it seems like people either love or hate this map with a passion. Count me in the column singing its praises.

**Grunt 70** · 04-23-2007, 01:28 PM

For those who haven't played the smaller map...It's better...plays out better.

I love this map but can understand how some would see it predictable or not enjoyable. Personally, I like the long epic maps. Very immersive. Plus you get to wear those cool head scarves.

**Beatnik** · 04-23-2007, 04:58 PM

Originally Posted by Root

What stratagies do you suggest we employ to deal with this? I'm sick and tired of it being a typical pub server (ie far worse than a TG public facing server). I'm working on squad-level tactics, currently special operations and next flight ops. If you have command-level ideas, Beatnik, then most of us would love to hear them.

My comment wasn't made in reference to strategies being used by commanders. It was referring to the utterly unspectacular gameplay dynamics of AAS2 on this map.

The U.S. stops bleed by capping village. Which is good, because U.S. rarely if ever caps Facility. So most maps are essentially a one-flag standoff, with at least 3-5 squads on each team contesting Facility. Sure there are Spawn Car squads, and an air squad or two, but it's just a meat grinder for 2 hours. Great.

The map itself rocks. The forced AAS dynamics (in all iterations I've seen on the map so far) ruin this map, like they ruin Op Phoenix, Muttrah, and even Hills of Hamgyong. The map is huge with ample cover and paths for flanking maneuvers, but no we must contest Facility for 2 hours. It's a waste, really.

**Root** · 04-23-2007, 05:03 PM

Originally Posted by Beatnik

most maps are essentially a one-flag standoff, with at least 3-5 squads on each team contesting Facility.

That's, sadly, a fair analysis of many rounds. I think things are improving though. I think the larger playerbase is finally getting the hang of AAS2, which is helping. I think the next stage is to put together the various small-unit stuff that's evident and turn it into a cohesive team effort. I'd sure love to play a 32 v 32 match on this map as it is.

**ednos** · 04-23-2007, 05:15 PM

Allowing the capture of Mosque simultaneously is both realistic and recommended. This would make the map more interesting and more playable.

**Root** · 04-23-2007, 05:20 PM

Originally Posted by ednos

Allowing the capture of Mosque simultaneously is both realistic and recommended. This would make the map more interesting and more playable.

I agree. Failing that, any sensible groupings that leave palace in the only 1-flag control group.

**Morganan** · 04-23-2007, 06:35 PM

Originally Posted by dr_guerra

Commanding on Basrah doesn't work

Trust me, I've tried it.

A-MEN TO THAT BROTHER!!!!!

Corridon has this right, to play the map right, you need to camp the facility as US for about an hour, killing insurgents until the tickets get even, all the while defending a perimeter around the place. Then you storm in when the insurgent's finally get sick of going over there and dying to some sniper on a roof they cant see. Who wants to spend an hour as commander looking for spawn car's to sick an air or ground squad on to destroy?

No thanks.

The 32 player map actually has gameplay that is a step above a snoozer. Flag's are taken which can be a rare enough thing on Basrah. There can be good squad-play, as the map isn't a zergfest or campfest from go.

**Root** · 04-23-2007, 06:39 PM

Originally Posted by Morganan

Who wants to spend an hour as commander looking for spawn car's to sick an air or ground squad on to destroy?

A CO shouldn't be hunting for spawn cars. Pass on the info if you happen to have it, but if you're commanding you should be monitoring the entire battle.

**aculle01** · 04-23-2007, 07:29 PM

The USMC really needs to concentrate on the task at hand if they are to be successful. Last night, 22APR07, I had a squad positioned to the north by the small outlying houses and half finished building mainly looking to harass any USMC forces attempting a push from the north trying to get around East. For about 75% of the round the only thing we saw were the cobras and A-10s. It would be one thing if they were softening us up before armor/troops moved in. But for most of the round nothing proceeded the attacks the pilots were simply looking for kills. Too bad I think one of the snipers in the desert had more kills then the 4 aircraft combined. Yea its tough to type and fly but if there is no commander, strike pilots should be offering their services just as the transport pilots do.

As for the map, why was the mosque/facility flag group broken up?

**Root** · 04-23-2007, 07:32 PM

Originally Posted by aculle01

As for the map, why was the mosque/facility flag group broken up?

If they were in the same group originally, then they were changed because Asch has spent a lot of time looking into all the maps and control groups. The aim is to tweak everything to improve the gaming experience. I think this is one of the few occasions where the tweak hasn't had the desired affect.

**Plan6** · 04-23-2007, 07:46 PM

I would like to see some off the wall tweaks done to the map to see what happens.

Some idea a few buddies and I have been throwing around.

1: Make all the flags so that Insurgents cant recap them. The whole tone of the map would change, from a stale mate to a knock down drag out to hold off the waves are armor and special kits. I know this sounds like a drastic change, but trying it out cant hurt.

2: Slow down the spawn car respawn so destroying them is much more of a goal. This could allow a USMC team to do a bit more damage.

3: Move the special kits for Insurgents closer to the front. Dragging those AA kits to the front only to be gunned down is a pain.

4: Less A-10, better yet, NO A-10. I rarely see the thing do much except fly over and make me wish I had some AA that mattered so I could shut it up.

5: Some forward spawns for the USMC to keep the action going.

Im not saying all these changes are good, but anything is better than the pain AB is right now. People love the map, but no one loves a 2 hour stale mate.

P.S. Last password night, the USMC came up with the best plan to win the map. Camp the city. Because they didnt have a ticket bleed, all they need to do with kill us faster than we killed them. If they dont attack the city, we have to kill them outside of it, where they have the advantage. Yet another flaw with the map, that the USMC doesnt really NEED to attack facility.

**Root** · 04-23-2007, 07:57 PM

Originally Posted by Plan6

1: Make all the flags so that Insurgents cant recap them. The whole tone of the map would change, from a stale mate to a knock down drag out to hold off the waves are armor and special kits. I know this sounds like a drastic change, but trying it out cant hurt.

2: Slow down the spawn car respawn so destroying them is much more of a goal. This could allow a USMC team to do a bit more damage.

4: Less A-10, better yet, NO A-10. I rarely see the thing do much except fly over and make me wish I had some AA that mattered so I could shut it up.

5: Some forward spawns for the USMC to keep the action going.

I'm not keen on the insurgents losing all the flags when they're capped, but like you say - it can't hurt to try it.

Definitely slowing down the respawn on spawn cars would help.

No A10 would be nice. Even better would be replacing them with an MH6.

Not sure about forward spawns points. If the US team is playing properly, most / all of the APC's are going to be protected near the front line so that they can be used as team spawn points. Also SLs are supposed to get officer kits and put RPs down.

**Morganan** · 04-23-2007, 08:02 PM

Originally Posted by Root

A CO shouldn't be hunting for spawn cars. Pass on the info if you happen to have it, but if you're commanding you should be monitoring the entire battle.

Err, during that hour between capping village and assaulting facility while you are evening out the ticket advantage the insurgent's will have, what else exactly are you supposed to be doing as commander? Finding spawn car's gives the best indictation of where the enemy is coming from. The farther away from the flag you want to assault the enemy is forced to spawn, the better it is for your team. The longer the trip they have to the flag you are attempting to isolate, the better chance you have of killing them in transit and thus lowering their ticket advantage.

Remember Root, the idea for either side isn't to hold all the flag's. Flag's are nothing more then a "means to an end" that can help you with your primary mission. The primary mission on any BF map is to end the round with more tickets remaining then the other team. Once the US cap's village, they have zero incentive to do any more offensive operation's. So the best strat for the US is to capitalize on the normal players impatience and sit back and defend, and wait them out and attrit them with air power and by playing defensively. (not to be confused with passively mind you) Eventually the insurgents will come to your defensive position's and you will get easy kills with little risk of losses turning the tables on them. You continue to do that until you have gotten your ticket disadvantage down to even or close to it. To play this map to win as both sides, you would eventually have a stalemate that could last eternally. US forces sitting back after stopping the ticket bleed defending their gains, and insurgents just sitting and defending the facility AND their ticket advantage.

Sounds like fun, doesn't it?

**asch** · 04-23-2007, 08:14 PM

Originally Posted by aculle01

As for the map, why was the mosque/facility flag group broken up?

That was the map's original design.

**Root** · 04-23-2007, 09:26 PM

Originally Posted by Morganan

Err, during that hour between capping village and assaulting facility while you are evening out the ticket advantage the insurgent's will have, what else exactly are you supposed to be doing as commander? Finding spawn car's gives the best indictation of where the enemy is coming from. The farther away from the flag you want to assault the enemy is forced to spawn, the better it is for your team. The longer the trip they have to the flag you are attempting to isolate, the better chance you have of killing them in transit and thus lowering their ticket advantage.

Remember Root, the idea for either side isn't to hold all the flag's. Flag's are nothing more then a "means to an end" that can help you with your primary mission. The primary mission on any BF map is to end the round with more tickets remaining then the other team. Once the US cap's village, they have zero incentive to do any more offensive operation's. So the best strat for the US is to capitalize on the normal players impatience and sit back and defend, and wait them out and attrit them with air power and by playing defensively. (not to be confused with passively mind you) Eventually the insurgents will come to your defensive position's and you will get easy kills with little risk of losses turning the tables on them. You continue to do that until you have gotten your ticket disadvantage down to even or close to it. To play this map to win as both sides, you would eventually have a stalemate that could last eternally. US forces sitting back after stopping the ticket bleed defending their gains, and insurgents just sitting and defending the facility AND their ticket advantage.

Sounds like fun, doesn't it?

I think you misunderstand the objective of AAS2. The incentive to move forwards is that you want to cap all the flags and then hunt down the remaining OpFor, having deprived them of a means to respawn.

As for commanding, I never get bored in the comm chair. There's always stuff that needs doing, and there's a never-ending stream of information to keep track of.

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