Re: Flag Cap status: GRAY question

**Dark Viper** · 05-15-2007, 08:35 AM

So are warnings no longer given or is it just an automatic kick for appearntly not breaking any rules, but just because somebody is complaining?

In PoE and 2142, players get multiple warnings before being kicked if they do not follow the warnings.

**Sabre_Tooth_Tigger** · 05-15-2007, 08:44 AM

Destroying stuff is fine by me and within the rules afaik. To destroy something you only need to be there for a short time, default map spawn bags, bridges, etc are all viable imo

I'm not sure about mining UCB or the roads out of them. Especially if the engineer then waits nearby and uses it as an opportunity to ambush/attack

I dont think vehicles should be destroyed or mined in a UCB, only fixed assets. Spawn cars are ok to destroy imo though they are mobile even if they are at ucb though I never attack the palace on basra

I sometimes destroy the jihad truck and technical truck (the grey one with 50 cal) which is probably incorrect if the flag is a ucb.

I dont think you should lump vehicles and players with fixed assets (except spawn cars). If you directly attack players or vehicles in a ucb or coming straight out of one then your in the wrong imo.

Destroying trenches artillery is valid. Occupying trenches while its a UCB in order to stop artillery being repaired is incorrect imo

**gerardnm** · 05-15-2007, 11:20 AM

Originally Posted by Sabre_Tooth_Tigger

Destroying stuff is fine by me and within the rules afaik. To destroy something you only need to be there for a short time, default map spawn bags, bridges, etc are all viable imo

I'm not sure about mining UCB or the roads out of them. Especially if the engineer then waits nearby and uses it as an opportunity to ambush/attack

I dont think vehicles should be destroyed or mined in a UCB, only fixed assets. Spawn cars are ok to destroy imo though they are mobile even if they are at ucb though I never attack the palace on basra

I sometimes destroy the jihad truck and technical truck (the grey one with 50 cal) which is probably incorrect if the flag is a ucb.

I dont think you should lump vehicles and players with fixed assets (except spawn cars). If you directly attack players or vehicles in a ucb or coming straight out of one then your in the wrong imo.

Destroying trenches artillery is valid. Occupying trenches while its a UCB in order to stop artillery being repaired is incorrect imo

I gotta disagree........... All flags should be in play excet ! (the UCB or last flag). All others are open to apprach ambush, mining etc. The palace is the only no go on basrah, carrier on jabal etc....

Admins should allow players go anywhere on the maps (unless ordered by commander not to as needed elsewhere).

And technically the vehicles on kwai aren't even in the flag are ergo can be mined blown up etc

**Sabre_Tooth_Tigger** · 05-15-2007, 11:29 AM

Players can go anywhere but with good reason otherwise the aas system is designed to focus gameplay on particular key flags otherwise it'd just be like normal bf2 ?

The usmc vehicles on kwai are right next to where the players spawn apart from the helicopter on top of the hill with the flag. Its not obvious I guess but thats the same flag area imo.

If you drop a crate or stop an APC right next to the river by those vehicles at outpost then it wont let you get a kit. The reason being you are still within the base radius apparently.
I think that particular rule is stupid but you should be able to test it out yourself

**mingmong** · 05-15-2007, 11:29 AM

What about on Kyongan Ni? Or Steel Thunder? Or Inishail?

There are too many exceptions to the "Last flag has all the equipment" design for it to enforce a rule like the one you propose in the first sentence. And even then, it's not your call.

And with regards to your last point - don't be stupid. That's the same kind of argument is "I'm sniping the UCB from outside, because I'm not in the UCB it's not basecamping".

**gerardnm** · 05-15-2007, 11:39 AM

Guys there can only be one flag per map that's considered a UCB.....not 2 or 3 or 4.....one flag.

On steel thunder the UCB is the Chinese & USA's 1st flag. This is not the same as Kyongan Ni.

On Kyongan Ni its clearly marked and its not where the equipment spawns.

Like we ssay 1 UCB per map...otherwise all flags can be mined, sabotaged etc.

The rule is u cant attack the UCB until its in play.....as i said there's only one UCB per map

**mingmong** · 05-15-2007, 11:43 AM

"Addendum: In the project reality mod, a main (base) flag shall be considered a UCB unless the AAS Headquarters (HQ) message states to capture it."

Regardless of what your opinion is of the definition of a UCB, the rules couldn't be clearer on this point.

**gerardnm** · 05-15-2007, 12:04 PM

Originally Posted by mingmong

"Addendum: In the project reality mod, a main (base) flag shall be considered a UCB unless the AAS Headquarters (HQ) message states to capture it."

Regardless of what your opinion is of the definition of a UCB, the rules couldn't be clearer on this point.

Are we arguing for the same thing...that's my point there's one UCB per map and its the main base.

The main base on steel thunder is the Chinese and USMC's 1st flag on Kyongan Ni its the Chinese base and the americans Air assault base.

All other bases therefore are in play and can be attacked.

**Sabre_Tooth_Tigger** · 05-15-2007, 12:18 PM

UCB stands for un capturable base I think. If you cant capture it (lower the flag, neutralise it or turn the colour grey) then dont be there.
This is project reality mod not BF2, you just need to adapt your tactics to that.

Dont play the mod like its just a new set of BF2 maps

Its good that you bring this up anyway because people attacking UCB happens almost every single map. Unfortunately it results in many easy kills and because the game score seems to be mostly based on KDR not flags captured/controlled it can gain a team win for them.

Im not a fan of rules or 'ommmm I'm telling my admin on you!'
Ideally people trying to do this would find themselves cut off from support, ammo, fuel, food & backup (player respawns, etc). Isolated they should soon die behind enemy lines, unfortunately they dont and in fact their actions appear 'advanced'

You cant blame people for their confusion and rule breaking in some ways though I dont blame the game designers either as its not easy to make it 'realistic'

On the lighter side, watch Kelly's Heroes. Its a funny and totally unrealistic war movie classic

I have a question too, on Jabal at the start of the round the usmc has no flags on the mainland. Is it a viable tactic for the MEC to meet the USMC at west beach and kill the landing forces while they are still vunerable.
The flag cannot be captured yet it is neutral so can be defended ? The HQ message for MEC at the time tells them to capture factory and the city flag and defend their own main base.

**w.WAREHOUSE** · 05-15-2007, 12:22 PM

[QUOTE=Dark Viper;706124]So are warnings no longer given or is it just an automatic kick for apparently breaking rules[QUOTE]

valid question.
I think admins often hear a 1-sided version of the story from players they know well. I have found them to be very understanding, however, and would suggest that if you get kick/banned you join TS and tell them your side of the story, or pm one of the admins on the forums. They will clear up the situation quickly.

**mingmong** · 05-15-2007, 12:25 PM

Originally Posted by gerardnm

Are we arguing for the same thing...that's my point there's one UCB per map and its the main base.

The main base on steel thunder is the Chinese and USMC's 1st flag on Kyongan Ni its the Chinese base and the americans Air assault base.

All other bases therefore are in play and can be attacked.

Hnngh. There ISN'T one UCB per map. All flags not in play are UCBs. ALL OF THEM.

**gerardnm** · 05-15-2007, 12:44 PM

Originally Posted by dawolf

Thanks for clarification Lucky. So attacking Outpost on Kyongan'Ni can never be in violation of that UCB rule addendum.

I think this is very important to point out because people seem to keep reporting UCB violations in that case (see OP)

???????

**gerardnm** · 05-15-2007, 12:46 PM

Think you ve wires crossed mate

**dawolf** · 05-15-2007, 12:59 PM

The term "UCB" comes from vanilla days and defines the main base with the red circle over it as designated by the map designer. There can be only one UCB (=main base) per side and map.

This definition has been extended for PR and AAS. If one side does not already have a UCB (marked by a red circle) their last flag in the AAS order is considered a "UCB" and all UCB related rules apply.

Only after all other flags in the AAS order are under control (or neutral) that last one may be attacked.

Admins, please correct me if i am wrong here.

**fuzzhead** · 05-15-2007, 01:31 PM

The map in question has been re-jigged by myself.

I know the exact problems you guys are talking about, and they have all mostly been fixed (hopefully)

New for v0.6 Kyongan Ni:

- You can no longer walk from US Air Mobile to the rest of the map, there is an out of bounds area surrounding air mobile. This is to simulate that US Air Mobile is many kilometers away from the fighting, and is a reinforcement point for the USMC. The out of bounds area does not affect helicopters. This was always the intention, but the original mapper never realized players would just hike down the mountain to attack Air Drop. So now there is NO POSSIBLE WAY that China can get to US Air Mobile, and there is NO POSSIBLE WAY that USMC can walk from Air mobile to the rest of the map.

- Outpost no longer has fixed spawns. This change alone will be cutting back the vast majority of the spawn camping that is a problem.

- China no longer has helicopter.

- China starts with kyongan ni (this was always the original mappers intention).

Theres alot more changes, but hopefully it plays out alot better in v0.6

Thread Tools

Display