Flag Cap status: GRAY question

**aion2006** · 05-12-2007, 10:11 PM

Hello I just want a explanation's on flag cap.
Some of you might know me as [FEAR] sanada2005.
Been playing on TG for a few months now trying to give player the best entertainment when playing along with me. I love player that "think" beside gunning everything that move. Thats what got me into PR much less TG.

I was kick out for supposedly attacking UCB on 5/12/07 on Kaiyoni Map (Chinese map with the bridge on a river.) Looking at how the team preform in the last map I decided to go SL trying to turn the game around.

I was playing Chinese, Kaiyoni was recapture and we had 2 squad + capturing airdrop. Someone ask if anybody going to outpost so I did. While other squad retreated toward Kaiyoni as it was being recapture I lead my squad near Outpost prepping for an all out attack. Airdrop still gray and was moments from being capture then a SAW gunner attack our position outside of outpost. I advance the order for my squad to move in for the objective.

Later as I await the awesome teamwork and communication our team did. We're moments away from starting to bring the flag down. Of course in the process I was kick. From the months of experience I play at TG there we many moments where squad advance toward base for a tactical strategy. Now I know god forbid me to attack a base thats absolutely no tactical meaning what so ever. But when a flag is in a "gray" status with many squad capturing the point. Is not tactical to have a squad at the next base moments away from the objective.

I'm not doing this to start a flame or to degrade TG in anyway. I'm trying to confirm my question so I can acknowledge my mistake and learn from it. I apologize TG if what I did was wrong but I strongly believe in a tactical strategy when I see one. Same way I believe on how player utilize their weapon. If a person has a grenade launcher, or AT use it how ever you want. What are they going to do? Switch to a less efficient way to destroy its target? It's war but when a tank or apc comes in you wanna wish you save it.
But that's another topic/reply for another time =) Thanks happy gaming

**stickyjeans69** · 05-13-2007, 01:17 AM

Yoyo, sanada. the flag is in play if the previous flag was grayed, say Airdrop is gray it is safe to move into Outpost, i don't see why you where kicked

**Jeepo** · 05-13-2007, 02:15 AM

However, i was playing when this happened, and to the best of my knowledge, air drop was not capped and you and your squad were engaging at outpost, so you were kicked.

**John CANavar** · 05-13-2007, 02:39 AM

Hello Sanada,

I was the admin on duty and there were multiple reports, both on server chat and teamspeak, that US main base were being attacked although it was not cappable. This is against our rules (A main base cannot be attacked if not in HQ attack orders).

You would be surprised if you knew how many smactards we deal on TG servers everyday, trying to gain easy kills like this. I am not saying that you were doing it. Since UCB attack is a VERY common rule violation and I was still getting reports after the warning, I had to kick you to be on the safe side.

Thank you for your mature post. We can conclude this by reminding everyone one more time that, until the moment you see the enemy base name in HQ capture orders, attacking to this base is against TG rules. So feel free to think ahead and position yourself but if you are engaging enemy in this situation, even if to defend yourself, you are in violation of server rules.

**aion2006** · 05-13-2007, 02:49 AM

Jeepo I need a better respond if your going to reply that'll answer my question please.

now see a few of my squad mate we getting into position as Air Drop was Gray for quite a long time.

We got attack with someone with a SAW machine gun so I told my team to return fire. We got a little carry away as we advance up and clean you guys out. Not sure if "GREY" status of previous objective mean the okay to attack the next object. Since of course it would be a great tactical strategy to prep the next objective. So thus yes I was kick for prepping that objective. If the flag wasn't gray no way would I attack outpost.

I would've thought ucb mean un-capable base. Which mean there NO chance the flag would go down if you try to cap it. Thus this is not allow. Which I acknowledge. But if a previous flag is "Gray" (AIRDROP) doesn't it make it in play since the flag does have a chance to be cap. As the previous objective may or may not be soon CAP. Thus doesn't it justify my strategy to launch a preemptive strike to the next objective?

Sorry but base on my exprience on TG this happen many times not just on my case. I just pick up the fact that "gray" flag mean the next objective is in play. The fact that the "gray" flag mean our team may capture it or the other team will. In this case, I did it not to annoy the other team or exploit in anyway but just a simple strategy.

I'm looking the situation at this humorous perspective.
"Yay we recapture Kaiyoni Bridge" -squad 5
"Sweet we're about to capture the Airdrop, the flag is gray" -squad 1 + other squad
"Cool we'll move to outpost"
"Sir we're under attack" -hugging ground below outpost
"Get em boys!" -EVIL GRIN-
"Awesome we kill them all" -Standing on hill on outpost-
-meanwhile-
"who's attacking outpost?" - other team
"But flag is gray on airdrop"
-Kick-
O_o? -Cry in corner-

EDIT: ok beside replying again. I'll just edit. Thanks for your reply John Canavar. Though I wasn't attacking any MAIN base. Such as bases with the giant NO sign on it. It was map Kaiyoni, the base I was attacking is "Outpost" which is in line after "Airdrop" Airdrop was gray though still uncertain ether gray mean next objective is in play or not.

So is your answer that GRAY flag you still CANNOT attack the next objective? If this is so then okay. I acknowledge that and I apologize for my action. Also I apologize to my squad mate for ordering the attack. I seen that stratagy played out by many squad I join but I'll remind them that gray flag mean the next objective is not in play then. Thank you

**Plan6** · 05-13-2007, 03:08 AM

Having played with FEAR from my first days of TG, I can safely say he would never attack an uncap.

I commonly have my squad in set up position to attack OUTPOST. You cant run there and expect your team to hold AIRDROP(one of the hardest points to take and hold in the game). If my squad get attacked while waiting, we have to fight back.

If there is an "off limits" area where you cant attack the enemy because they are spawning, thats fine. As long as someone is not camping in a base, I will always assume that the rest of the map is fair game.

But as FEAR said, if you can gray out the flag, I assume that means its in play. Its the flags that you cant cap that you shouldnt be hanging around.

**Jeepo** · 05-13-2007, 03:43 AM

Sorry Fear, didnt mean to sound so blunt, its just a lot of complaints were coming in that the APCs were being camped, tanks attacked, helos attacked etc, and this was happening before airdrop was grey!However, like you say,this is a grey area

and these things happen, but there was a lot of funny business happening on the server on the previous round also, so that explaines my reaction! The problem is drawing a line where people are not camping in the base, but are not just destroying assets, they are stopping people from leaving the base by ambush?Tricky situation to monitor ill admit!

**aion2006** · 05-13-2007, 04:19 AM

Yeah I can relate. This past week there's been so much trouble while I was playing. Most of the time I was in Stickyjean69 squad so he sure as hell can relate haha. Been alot of squad that attack MAIN base, or ppl who jumps into cobra, or armor and takes off without being in the correct squad.

Unless anybody else want to add I guess this thread need a close. =) Thanks for the mature intelligent reply as expected from TG community.

**dawolf** · 05-13-2007, 07:24 AM

I'd like to chime in here with my interpretation of the rule addendum

Originally Posted by Asch

Addendum: In the project reality mod, a main (base) flag shall be considered a UCB unless the AAS Headquarters (HQ) message states to capture it.

I was in a squad in a similar situation about a week ago on the same map. Other squads were in the process of taking Airdrop (at least it looked like it) and we moved in to secure Outpost when complaints came up that we were violating the UCB rule. I am always keeping myself up to date on rule changes and I knew about that rule change for PR at the time, but my interpretation differed.

In the light of where that rule addition came from it was the idea to protect base flags - which means the very last flag in the AAS capture order - where planes, chopper, armor etc spawn - and keep those back flags out of the game as long as possible.
In no way I understood that rule as "if not in the HQ cap message it's to be treated as UCB".

In this case the US starts off with a flag marked as UCB, so in my eyes this rule change doesn't apply at all to Road to Kyongan'Ni because the main (base) flag is already an UCB - not so for the MEC side.

This is how I understood the rule up until recently.

So my question is, is any flag to be treated as UCB that is not in the HQ captures messages or are only flags to be treated as UCB which are the very last in the AAR capture order (provided there isn't already a UCB for that team).

**Lucky Shot** · 05-13-2007, 07:36 AM

The Main Base is essentially the very last flag you can capture if there is no UCB on the map. So apart from that, you have free reign to be anywhere you want on the battlefield.

Lucky Shot

**dawolf** · 05-13-2007, 07:44 AM

Thanks for clarification Lucky. So attacking Outpost on Kyongan'Ni can never be in violation of that UCB rule addendum.

I think this is very important to point out because people seem to keep reporting UCB violations in that case (see OP)

**mingmong** · 05-13-2007, 09:10 AM

Outpost should be counted as a UCB though, because it's a static spawn and it's where the heavy vehicles spawn.

**Root** · 05-13-2007, 11:08 AM

Originally Posted by mingmong

Outpost should be counted as a UCB though, because it's a static spawn and it's where the heavy vehicles spawn.

Unless I'm greatly mistaken, outpost is in the same control group as airdrop. Air mobile is the US main base.

Originally Posted by Jeepo

its just a lot of complaints were coming in that the APCs were being camped

If an APC is being camped, relay that info :you > SL > CO > all other SL's > all other SMs. That way everyone knows not to spawn there. Of course you'd need to have a CO to ensure that info got passed around in a timely fashion.

**mingmong** · 05-13-2007, 11:56 AM

Root - Outpost is in the control group after Airdrop. But, despite Air mobile being the main base, all of the US heavy equipment (tanks, APCs) spawns at Outpost - so by saying that only Air mobile falls under the UCB rules, you're effectively OKing the destruction and camping of all the US heavy equipment, the protection of which (until someone gets in it, natch) I always thought was a major reason for the UCB rule in the first place (hence strict restrictions on what you can engage in the UCB, including vehicles)

**Root** · 05-13-2007, 11:58 AM

Originally Posted by mingmong

Root - Outpost is in the control group after Airdrop. But, despite Air mobile being the main base, all of the US heavy equipment (tanks, APCs) spawns at Outpost - so by saying that only Air mobile falls under the UCB rules, you're effectively OKing the destruction and camping of all the US heavy equipment, the protection of which (until someone gets in it, natch) I always thought was a major reason for the UCB rule in the first place (hence strict restrictions on what you can engage in the UCB, including vehicles)

Given the reckless way the US team often approaches this map, I have no problem with them losing the bulk of their equipment. It's a direct consequence of their actions. This is TG and people should start playing like it.

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