Re: Albasrah (64p) Modifactions -- part II

**Sam Hoy** · 05-20-2007, 11:48 PM

I'm of the mind that the A-10s should be scrapped altogether and to bring back both Cobras...how much are the Blackhawks really used, anyways? Maybe take one of those out and/or replace with a Littlebird.

Anyways, this sounds intriguing; can't wait to play and see!

I partly agree, one A-10 is fine; as is one Cobra, but the other Cobra should be replaced by one of those MH-6s with just the mini guns in order to provide close-in suppression but more importantly for aerial reconnaissance.

**asch** · 05-20-2007, 11:49 PM

The US probably shouldn't wait to cap industry as the last flag in that grouping. That will definitely lead to 32v32 on one flag.

I also see that we probably need to adjust the bleed for the US. It bleeds far too fast to capture that many flags.

**EBODude** · 05-21-2007, 12:00 AM

Originally Posted by Sam Hoy

I partly agree, one A-10 is fine; as is one Cobra, but the other Cobra should be replaced by one of those MH-6s with just the mini guns in order to provide close-in suppression but more importantly for aerial reconnaissance.

Yeah I'd like the AH6 Littlebird with dual M134s. Maybe even the AH6 Littlebird with dual M134s and Hydra 70 Rocket Pods.

**Belhade** · 05-21-2007, 12:43 AM

Originally Posted by Sam Hoy

I partly agree, one A-10 is fine; as is one Cobra, but the other Cobra should be replaced by one of those MH-6s with just the mini guns in order to provide close-in suppression but more importantly for aerial reconnaissance.

Yeah, that's what I meant when I suggested the LB.

Industry as a last-stand is just meatgrinder central. We had it surrounded as USMC; two squads north, one squad south, a tank, Cobra and A-10 all pounding it and could make little headway. I did manage to get inside once but quickly fell to the insurgents hiding alongside the walls. I agree that it's no better a choke-point than Facility.

**Morganan** · 05-21-2007, 01:06 AM

Originally Posted by asch

The US probably shouldn't wait to cap industry as the last flag in that grouping. That will definitely lead to 32v32 on one flag.

I also see that we probably need to adjust the bleed for the US. It bleeds far too fast to capture that many flags.

I know during the map earlier on the password night in squad chat I mentioned this very thing, but thinking further about it from the Ins. point of view I think this might need a further tweak or 2 yet. Why? Simply put the Ins. have no real benifit to defend NVCP or village so thus the smart Ins squads will just sit on industry. Why you ask? Since no real assets of value spawn for the Ins at NVCP or village, (they can move any spawn cars elsewhere and leave it a ghost-town) why try and defend those 2 flags since you will keep the bleed with just industry which you can retake if the US grey's it out? There is a decent amount of cover to neutralize the effectiveness of US air assets, certainly enough for 4-6 squads to spread out and get some defense-in-depth going on.

I would maybe suggest making it so none of the flags can be re-taken by the Ins. and keep the bleed the same as it is now. That will force squads to spread out over all the flags in a grouping initially making it a challenge for both sides in troop allocation. Of course, I wouldn't change anything yet as it defintely needs more testing before anyone can come to any solid conclusions but that is what I would try next if the map still feels lacking.

I think adding any "new" equipment would require a new client side for this map.

**Finestyle** · 05-21-2007, 08:36 AM

Originally Posted by asch

The US probably shouldn't wait to cap industry as the last flag in that grouping. That will definitely lead to 32v32 on one flag.

I also see that we probably need to adjust the bleed for the US. It bleeds far too fast to capture that many flags.

Yeah agreed... Last night I took my squad to Industry first off, but unfortunately was a bit too slow getting things organised and out of the main. We did manage to get an initial cap of the flag but due to the slow start and lack of support we were very quickly over run with insurgents and lost the flag again, that's when it got really tough. If we had been able to hold that flag a little longer with a bit more support that round would have ended very differently. Looking forward to trying this setup again.

**RazersEdge** · 05-21-2007, 03:29 PM

I find that too many people go for aircraft while the competent pilots get screwed over by some newbie who has never flown before. Keep at least 1 A-10, possibly replacing one of the cobras and one of the blackhawks with littlebirds with 2.75s I mean seriously, if you want realism, then have littlebirds on strafing runs. And I also agree that it bleeds far too fast for the USMC to capture that many flags. You RARELY see a USMC team win, no matter HOW competent they may be. A screwball defense by the insurgents will result in victory at this point

**Morganan** · 05-21-2007, 03:41 PM

As I said before, adding "new" vehicles to a map most likely requires everyone to have a new client side of the map. You can change the number of already existing vehicles that spawn, (meaning 10 cobra's or 0 cobra's) but adding new ones (like adding 1 littlebird) requires a new client side.

**asch** · 05-21-2007, 08:38 PM

Originally Posted by Morganan

I know during the map earlier on the password night in squad chat I mentioned this very thing, but thinking further about it from the Ins. point of view I think this might need a further tweak or 2 yet. Why? Simply put the Ins. have no real benifit to defend NVCP or village so thus the smart Ins squads will just sit on industry. Why you ask? Since no real assets of value spawn for the Ins at NVCP or village, (they can move any spawn cars elsewhere and leave it a ghost-town) why try and defend those 2 flags since you will keep the bleed with just industry which you can retake if the US grey's it out? There is a decent amount of cover to neutralize the effectiveness of US air assets, certainly enough for 4-6 squads to spread out and get some defense-in-depth going on.

The insurgents could pick any flag and mount a 32-man defense. This is a problem I've been pondering for a while. I'm not sure how to solve that issue.

One thing I'm looking at is actually switching North VCP and industry... making Industry only able to be captured by the US and leave North VCP as a contestable flag. This would make the Insurgents think twice about putting all 32 men on the flag, while still leaving it as an option to attack if the US places too many forces on other flags. It also is a flag that the Insurgents would want to take because it spawns some of the US APCs.

I would maybe suggest making it so none of the flags can be re-taken by the Ins. and keep the bleed the same as it is now. That will force squads to spread out over all the flags in a grouping initially making it a challenge for both sides in troop allocation. Of course, I wouldn't change anything yet as it defintely needs more testing before anyone can come to any solid conclusions but that is what I would try next if the map still feels lacking.

I've thought about this too, but if none of the flags were able to be recaptured by the Insurgents, the US would just steamroll through each flag with 32 men. I want to avoid that also.

I think adding any "new" equipment would require a new client side for this map.

If a vehicle existed on the map with the stock installation, I can add more. What I cannot do is add a "new" vehicle, as you've stated.

**Switch** · 05-21-2007, 08:54 PM

With half the air support available, the SA7's are going to be far more useful. Any considerations on limiting it to 1?

**Sabre_Tooth_Tigger** · 05-21-2007, 09:19 PM

Nah make them sweat, they still arent a sure bet. The RPG are truely awful to use and every strength should have a counter for a good game, imo

Just finished a game where usmc won. Despite this, at the end of game one of my insurgent teammates said 'that was fun' At the end, usmc overextended themselves and insurgents won back all the flags they had lost but still lost the game.

I would say losing industry was the turning point and insurgents fatal mistake. Till then usmc looked to lose with less points and bleeding

**Morganan** · 05-21-2007, 09:53 PM

Switching industry and NVCP seems like an excellent idea to be honest, one I had not thought of before. It would defintely "flow" better and create a TON of action on the west side of facility, which sure seems underused currently.

**ChernobylKinsman** · 05-21-2007, 11:49 PM

I got to fight around the last two flags for the first time ever tonight and it was a lot of fun (as insurgents).

**asch** · 05-22-2007, 12:20 AM

Originally Posted by Sabre_Tooth_Tigger

Just finished a game where usmc won. Despite this, at the end of game one of my insurgent teammates said 'that was fun' At the end, usmc overextended themselves and insurgents won back all the flags they had lost but still lost the game.

Can you give a few more details so I can judge the bleed on the map?

**Finestyle** · 05-22-2007, 01:05 AM

I joined shortly before it all started to fall apart, I was on the insurgents, all squads were full so I decided to make an AA squad and spawn in at Palace to see if the SA-7 was there... And sure enough it was (I really cant see why people moaned about too much USMC air power.... Everytime I play as insurgents, if I decide to grab an SA-7 its ALWAYS sitting there in the Palace not being used - HOW IS THAT HELPING THE AA? you would have expected me to find it taken at least once!), anyway, Once the USMC took Industry they seemed to just steam roll through the rest of the map, capping everything except Palace, which is when it went downhill for me personally. 2 squads started to hit palace, in the mean time we had re-capped the next flag and USMC refused to leave the insurgent main... So I ended up spending the rest of the round talking to admin... One squad eventually did leave, but the other stayed there right to the end... I'm not sure just how much this affected the overall outcome but it cost us a few tickets thats for sure and it unfortunatly meant I didnt get the full picture from the insurgents point of view. Hopefully I'll get another chance to check it out tomorrow.

I'm unsure as to weather the USMC's progression across the map was due to tweaks, poor play from the Insurgents, or exceptionally good play from the USMC.

How long do you plan on leaving the map tweaked in its current form for testing purposes?

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