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Discussion: Project Reality / PR:BF2 - Wish more people would call out... - You raised a valid point Beerhunter. A squad is only as strong as the weakest
  1. #16

    BigGaayAl's Avatar

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    Re: Wish more people would call out...

    You raised a valid point Beerhunter.

    A squad is only as strong as the weakest link. As a sl you can do whatever you want, but if you have 1 guy always straying from the squad, always shooting when you are being stealthy, you cannot control the situation. I then have to lower the use of tactics to the level of thsi one guy, or kick him from the squad.

    Unfortunately 90% of the time this will leave me with a squad of 2 ppl, and tons of"weakest links" joining all the time. So I suck it up and don't use suppression, flanking etc.

    Most of the times these people are good players, good shots, know the mod inside and out. They just don't get it that after making a suggestion, the SL decides, and they shut up. Or they just don't get it that NOT shooting/running of is the very reason the squad-leader isn't doing well enough for him to stick with him.

    To me it is a basic element of respect, that if someone is actively SL-ing, you either do whatever he says, or leave the squad without foul comments.

    On the other side, much depends on the mood of the SL too. If I really feel like SL-ing, I will be more patient, take more time to explain. If I'm tired, none of the above.

    Wondering how Dirtboy keeps good cohesion in his squad so often, I came to the conclusion that taking point and attacking most of the time, is a style of leading that people get way faster, then my approach which usually involves covering other squads, setting up to shut down a flank etc.

    The best sign IMO when someone joins your squad is when you ask him something, and he says "yes sir". By no means do I need to be called sir (I prefer "your fabulousness"), but it shows that the individual is into the role-playing element of the game.

    The worst is when they join your squad with a sniper or specop kit. If I don't know this player, (some may have noticed in my squad) I ask then order them to come back medic or sometimes I order them to lose the sniper immediately if it is really not useful. This is a test. Medic is THE most unpopular kit, and if they'll take it without hassle, they prove a basic willingness to cooperate.

    I've got a good tip to keep your squad from firing without authorisation. It's Fuzzhead's trick, and one that works. Order your squad to keep their knives out. Anyone who doesn't gets kicked, and then you are good to go.

    PS: Beerhunter, can you state your in-game name, as AFAIK I haven't seen you in the server ever.
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  3. #17

    Sabre_Tooth_Tigger's Avatar

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    Re: Wish more people would call out...

    People will like that, tell them they are ninjas and may only kill by blood on steel


    If you find yourself in a fair fight, then you have obviously failed to plan properly.

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  5. #18


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    Re: Wish more people would call out...

    Snipers belong in thier own squads.

    Period. I rarely snipe with more than 1 other person in the squad with me. It's just a hazard.

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  7. #19

    Sabre_Tooth_Tigger's Avatar

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    Re: Wish more people would call out...

    Snipers can provide surveilance of an area. They neednt be quite so useless and the same goes for anyone with a specialist kit.

    You cant beat a good integrated team/squad, its definetly harder to do but I think a squad thats spread out (but still coordinated together )is more use then 6 guys running across a field.

    Ironically a sniper can be the best random sl to have because they lay back from an attack area which lets the rest of the squad spawn and rush in to capture it. He probably doesnt like it because it draws attention to him but compared to an average squad with no rp or a badly placed one they are doing great just by doing that much.
    I often see this on mestia/militia because the officer kit gives a SVD

    I think developers may have even done this on purpose by giving all officer kits the same zoom as the riflemans kits. What they need to do now is make it so you can only spawn on a SL who actually has the officer kit right now, we'd see much less gung ho I reckon


    If you find yourself in a fair fight, then you have obviously failed to plan properly.

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  9. #20

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    Re: Wish more people would call out...

    Quote Originally Posted by BigGaayAl View Post
    PS: Beerhunter, can you state your in-game name, as AFAIK I haven't seen you in the server ever.
    Go as [CoFR]BeerHunter[CDN] (sometimes [Noob] so SL has an idea of my abilities when I join a squad ).

    Only played on TG server a few times as its nearly always full when I have time to play and I still have this guilt complex about kicking someone at random. (supporting the server just because I believe in TG and its philosophy so want to help keep it running if not for me , then for others to enjoy)

    Spend time on TT's or other less populated servers though since TG is where I first foundered into PRM , I consider it "home".

    Also took a wee squad training course earlier on the TG server and a couple of times I've played here , encountered those "magic moments" while the other times here and over at TT's were what prompted this post in the first place.

    Have a list of about 6 experienced players that told me to look them up online and join there squad but so far haven't seen them though they gotta be out there somewhere..

    Also , what with work , summer chores , renovations etc my game time is limited but I'm looking forward to fall/winter when I hopefully will become a house hold name.
    I'm not in my second childhood , I simply never outgrew my first

    I'm living proof that only the good die young :D

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  11. #21

    Sabre_Tooth_Tigger's Avatar

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    Re: Wish more people would call out...

    I thought we went over that though, you are paying for the server to be there. The guilt should be the other way round.

    At present the game is so unstable, not that I blame anyone especially but the mod crashes and kicks people and now PB does the same. If you dont kick someone off they would be leaving via some route anyway.


    If you find yourself in a fair fight, then you have obviously failed to plan properly.

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  13. #22

    BeerHunter's Avatar

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    Re: Wish more people would call out...

    Quote Originally Posted by Sabre_Tooth_Tigger View Post
    I thought we went over that though, you are paying for the server to be there. The guilt should be the other way round.

    At present the game is so unstable, not that I blame anyone especially but the mod crashes and kicks people and now PB does the same. If you dont kick someone off they would be leaving via some route anyway.
    Yea - I did post about my "guilt feelings" a while ago and general consensus was as you said , as a supporting member I have the right...problem being I know I have the right but I still feel uneasy about doing it.

    But that's my personality quirk. Either psychoanalysis (at $250/hr) or live with it.
    I'm not in my second childhood , I simply never outgrew my first

    I'm living proof that only the good die young :D

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  15. #23

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    Re: Wish more people would call out...

    I forget who started this thread, but I can't agree more.

    I get all worked up when I can hear fire fights all over and look at my mini map and dont see a single red flashing dot. It seems to me to be the most basic and most helpful thing to do, to spot an enemy. I dont know what people are doing. Maybe they want to get a kill themselves so they dont spot someone, or maybe it's just not automatic for them to spot first and shoot second. For better or worse, I often times get blocked for 31 seconds from spotting when I start spamming spots. In the long run, you're going to get way more kills if you spot an enemy, even if you get killed. Someone will get the kill and possibly revive you, or get the kill before you get shot.

    I try to join Warehouse's squad whenever I can. Among other things that he does well, he will pretty much instantly get an attack arrow on a spotted enemy, and that enemy stands no chance once it's up. I need to learn how to use the grenadier like he does on an attack arrow. Im still learning the trajectory / distance.

    Also, I am sure many of you have noticed that sometimes when you try to spot someone, often times with a zoom weapon (sniper / marksman / armor) , even with the crosshair centered on the enemy's chest, it wont spot. Well it sometimes works to spot directly way over the head of the enemy, sometimes WAY over their head, like into the sky. I do it incrementally higher and higher. You will notice that when the person wont spot, there will be a question mark on your minmap much closer than you are trying to spot. Im no expert, but it's got to be an unseen obstacle thing.

    Cheers

    Tef

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  17. #24

    westyfield's Avatar

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    Re: Wish more people would call out...

    Yeah, I hate the spotting system, for instance when hidden behind a sand dune/rock/anything I find if i see an APC unload a bunch of soldiers, I try and spot the APC first. Done, then I spot the infantry. Annoyingly, it seems to want to hang on to the APC and ignore the infantry next to it. When they move away from the APC I finally spot them and promptly get blocked and told to "Stop yakking and get off this net" by some obnoxious American General. This is stupid and really cheeses me off. I think thats why some people don't spot, because if you do and it doesn't work, you're more likely to get shot as you try again.
    The worst thing that can happen is you try and spot, fail, and end up plonking a big red glowing question mark on the obstacle in front of you. After a few more tries, it looks like the entire Chinese Military is stationed in front of you. Then a friendly heli sees it on his map and thinks "Hmmmm, lots of guys there. I'll go and strafe it to clear them out"
    Bang goes you and your squad.
    Personally though, I always hit Q when I see a guy unless he's within about 15 metres of me, I always have my 4th finger either on A or Q so it's very quick to spot.
    |TG-Irr| westyfield

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    Irregular since 2007.

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  19. #25


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    Re: Wish more people would call out...

    For individual troops, spotting usually isn't worth the trouble. Once you've got the comma rose up and click to spot, that could have been your first and second shots. I would usually rather spend my time actually taking those shots, unless of course I actually have the time to spot before firing (aka unaware enemy at a distance). The flip side of this being armor or other vehicles my squad is otherwise unable to engage. Tanks, APCs, planes, helicopters and AA are all things that should be spotted as often as possible. With the insane zoom these things have and the lethality at those extreme ranges all squads should be aware of their presence. So much so that as a CO I'll often announce it as an "All squads be advised, enemy tank in Delta 5" or whatever the case may be. If it's really that important, I'll almost always use the voice comm.

    One of the other issues with spotting is that no one's mini-map is the same or even consistent throughout a single game. Full out zoom is fine when you're in the middle of nowhere, but when you want to be able to see the formation of your squad, or you're all stacked up on a flag assigning defensive points, it becomes a hassle and you'll have to zoom back in. With three levels of zoom, spotting becomes a very strange thing as at first glance you're unsure of whether the target is 10m out..or 50m...or even 200m. It may not matter as much on a flat plain such as Kashan, but in maps like Assault on Mestia it could mean the difference of having a supreme firing position on the enemy in the valley or being overwhelmed by sharp shooters on the cliff across from you.

    If it ever becomes too much of a problem, you could always just look at your squad mates to see which direction they're firing and then hone in on their tracers for a location of the target.

    (As a side note, I think the officer kit's main weapon generally has a longer zoom than the standard assault kit)

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  21. #26

    w.WAREHOUSE's Avatar

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    Re: Wish more people would call out...

    If someone in my squad opens up fire without spotting their target, they better darn well have been spotted & firing out of necessity while shouting on comms "action+direction"

    ...I'm pretty sure most players can spot an enemy in less than 1-tenth of a second. I see not spotting as simply lazy and disrespectful to your squad as there very well could be more enemies you do not see... the direction the spotted hostel travels alone can help trace a route to an enemy rally point. SL needs all the helpful information he can get to adjust squad position, and spotting plays a huge role in this.
    |TG-X|WAREHOUSE

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  23. #27


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    Re: Wish more people would call out...

    Sometimes spotting just wont work for the given situation, in which case a simple "enemy (north,south, east, west) (on top of, behind, next to, inside, driving...etc)" takes only 3-4 seconds to blurt out. Hell, a direction is more than enough warning for alot of squads, given most situations.

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  25. #28


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    Re: Wish more people would call out...

    Quote Originally Posted by SeventhDayPariah View Post

    One of the other issues with spotting is that no one's mini-map is the same or even consistent throughout a single game. Full out zoom is fine when you're in the middle of nowhere, but when you want to be able to see the formation of your squad, or you're all stacked up on a flag assigning defensive points, it becomes a hassle and you'll have to zoom back in. With three levels of zoom, spotting becomes a very strange thing as at first glance you're unsure of whether the target is 10m out..or 50m...or even 200m. It may not matter as much on a flat plain such as Kashan, but in maps like Assault on Mestia it could mean the difference of having a supreme firing position on the enemy in the valley or being overwhelmed by sharp shooters on the cliff across from you.
    I generally spot units as much as i possibly can, and I usually follow up a spot with a verbal "enemy's @ blahblahblah." I find it very helpful for the squad, especially if the enemy isn't directly ahead.

    As with the minimap situation, I use the button on the side of my mouse to zoom in on the minimap, so I can quickly change the view depending on the situation. I also have the big map set to the scroll mouse click, so I can very quickly and easily check everything on the map and zoom in and out if i want all on my mouse, makes things alot easier.

    lTG-6thl NardDawg


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  27. #29

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    Re: Wish more people would call out...

    Quote Originally Posted by thegreatnardini View Post
    I generally spot units as much as i possibly can, and I usually follow up a spot with a verbal "enemy's @ blahblahblah." I find it very helpful for the squad, especially if the enemy isn't directly ahead.

    As with the minimap situation, I use the button on the side of my mouse to zoom in on the minimap, so I can quickly change the view depending on the situation. I also have the big map set to the scroll mouse click, so I can very quickly and easily check everything on the map and zoom in and out if i want all on my mouse, makes things alot easier.
    Nice mouse set up nardini...thanks for that info....I have the G7 and that would work great.

    Also, calling out that the guy that just killed you is teabaggin you and the rest of his squad is running by is a nice way to inform your buds that it is time to deliver payback.

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  29. #30


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    Re: Wish more people would call out...

    If I recall, America's Army's SAI (Situational Awareness Indicator [ripoff of BF2 spot system]) was much smoother and higher resolution than the current. It's nice, there the spotting system was quite smarter. For example, Line of Sight was crucial, but if you had seen where the enemy was, it would still mark him. PR does this also, but its still very...BF2-ish.

    If I ever get back into AA, I'll give the devs some tips.

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