Kaine904

An Honest Review

Frankly, I miss Battlefield 2. In that game, I felt immersed, I felt like I was part of something. Even with the arcade style game play, unrealistic damage models, god bombs ect, I had fun. I hated the public servers, but playing with the TG guys was a different experience. Each squad was a little world, and we were all tight knit, even if we had never played together, or there was a pubbie with us. It felt realistic, when in a firefight we would call out enemy troops, spot them on our map, and then attack them together.
Red Orchestra is not Battlefield 2, and it will never be. It also shouldn’t try to be, or “steal” concepts that they used. What it should do, in my opinion, is look at it, and other games, and figure out “what works.” The goal of ANY game is to be fun and enjoyable. BF2, regardless of how you still feel about it, was a helluva lota fun. And what key gameplay mechanics allowed it to be?
Organization and Command Structure.
Effective Communications
Goal Oriented Gameplay
Diverse Player Experiences

These are not the “trademarks” of BF2, but rather concepts that allowed it to be successful. It had playability, where I could one day be a grunt leading a charge, the next a fighter pilot blowing people out of the sky, then the very next commanding the entire picture of the battle. The game was a social game, almost like a combat mmog. But, it didn’t require a steep learning curve to get into it, and I could jump right back in after a month’s hiatus.
People complain about us comparing the two games, RO and BF2, and tell us to stop. Why? BF2 was successful for a reason! Should we not try to emulate that wonderful experience? Here are my two cents on what RO lacks.
Organization and Command Structure / Effective Communications /
Goal Oriented Gameplay –
What organization? What command structure? The game has squad leaders available, but what can they really do? They can place a flag on the map and hope that people go there. Can they organize an assault non-verbally? Nope. Can they tell people to go to a specific spot? Yah, but do they know when that person is there? The most organization I have had is when I have heard the cry, ASSAULT THE WAREHOUSE!!! Generic commands and then even more generic assaults. Mass attacks, or even worse, a trickle of troops in to get killed. But, neither works! There is no encouragement for a good plan to happen, and no discouragement for a bad plan! BF2 had a ticket system, and you could count on running out of tickets if you had a moron commander. In RO, we have reinforcement percents. We don’t even know how they work, let alone how to win by them. I have never played and had either team’s reinforcements run out. I rarely know what happened to have one team win or another. I don’t understand why I lost, when I was doing a good job for the team.
As far as goals, I rarely know where to go. No one ever tells me, Kaine, you and you and such and him go THERE AND HOLD. Never, I don’t get orders. I don’t even hear others getting orders. I just go where I think I should, and I hope where my team is.
The one really good element, as far as communications and command structure, is in the tanks. These are one cohesive unit, and when manned by good guys, they are damn effective killing machines. Tanks crews organize, tanks together like on Arad are amazing, they are organized, they know what to do, and they are pretty darn effective. Its awe inspiring to see a line of tanks flying across a field, with explosions going off nearby, and then sweeping away the enemy. Only in tanks do I feel fully immersed in the game! I forget I’m playing a game, and I have a REALLY GOOD TIME! Whereas outside a tank is complete chaos, inside, its cool, calm, and organized.
Diverse Player Experiences
There are two experiences in this game. Tank and infantry. That’s it. The tank experience I talked about above, but let’s look at the infantry experience. I spawn; I see a bunch of guys. Some go to a specific location, and I follow them. If I’m an infantryman, I try to kill stuff. If I’m a sapper, I blow some stuff up on my own, and usually get shot on my own. If I’m a sniper, I go off and get kills, then get killed. If I’m a commander, I try to order people around, but I have no idea what is going on in the battle. The experiences in this game are not unique! I’m going to compare the elements of BF2 to this game again.
In BF2, I had options. Squad leader, infantry, MG gunner, sniper, anti-tank, engineer, all with their own SPECIFIC roles, and diverse experiences. Also they had aircraft, helo, and commander experiences which were VERY different from the infantry aspect. No matter the role, I felt important and that I had a specific job to do. In RO, not so much.

In my opinion, the main thing that hurts RO is the lack of a cohesive squad experience. The lack of any sort of concrete social interaction with your team, combined with the inability of leaders to lead, promote a death match style of gameplay, while at the same time realistic elements of the game promote a team play based style of gameplay. Overall, the experience is confused and disjointed.
Now, are there things that could save RO from being a “great potential, poor execution” game that we play so much? Sure! But these have to be IN GAME, for everyone, even newbs, to be able to use quickly and effectively.
Organization and Command Structure
-have leaders able to know where their troops are
-have designated squad leaders
-create a cohesive squad type unit
-expand commanders command options
-example – Give the experience tankers have to infantry units
Effective Communications
-again, first off have a good command structure in game
-revamp friendly identification
-revamp situational awareness (i.e. make it better! minimaps maybe?)
Goal Oriented Gameplay
-again, a good command structure is key!
-gratification, as well as clear objectives
-organized and cohesive squad units

Now, I’ve read a lot of the posts saying; let’s cater to those who live RO as it is now. Alright, I would love to. But right now, a lot of the gameplay seems confused. This is my post in reaction to the game, it is my opinion, and I don’t really expect anyone to be like YES! LETS MAKE CHANGES!!! This is just my expression of what I would like the game to be, based on my previous game experiences.
I hope this post is constructive, and I definitely don’t want to offend anyone. This post is a compellation of my frustrations, and what I think would be solutions to them. I still love RO, and I will continue playing it. No matter what, I look forward to the future of RO in relation to TacticalGamer.com

-Kaine904

jex

I've been playing RO for a couple of weeks now and other than the annoying kit restrictions, I find the game to be pretty good fun. As I understand it you have a local VOIP channel you can join or you can speak in the main channel. In WW2 they didn't have radios like we have today so organising your squad wil ltake more effort. You pick a rally point, get there and then launch your attack whilst the SL's report back to the CO - what's so hard about that? I'm glad you can't see things on the map and I'm glad there's no god's-eye commander telling someone I'm hiding in the bush just past the humvee. There is fog-of-war going on and only people near you will know there's an enemy soldier round the corner, etc.

It's a different game and requires a little more effort to organise which is why we play at TG - so we can get this type of gameplay working. Once the maps have been learnt and the choke points recognised, you'll see more tactics and strategies coming from it.

It's certainly a lot slower game than BF2 and requires a little more thought.

__________________
Jex

Strag

Thanks for your review, Kaine.

Battlefield 2 and Red Orchestra are two different games. One is not meant to emulate the other. If they were such similar games, why would we play one over the other? Instead, I think Tripwire meant for Red Orchestra to be different so that it could appeal to a different crowd. For those at TG who don't really like Red Orchestra, there is always excellent play available on our other servers. With Red Orchestra, we are trying to provide something a little different at TG. We know it won't be for everyone, but for those people who DO enjoy it, we hope they will find a new home here.

If you find the leadership lacking in Red Orchestra (or any other game, for that matter), please step up and take charge! We always encourage our players to take the lead and set the pace. I imagine, Kaine, that if you set a good leadership example, others will soon follow. This will make the gameplay on our servers even better.

Kaine904

The main point of frustration for me is that the leadership role does not have the adaquete tools at their disposal to lead a cohesive team. I have tried to lead, but all i can do is give the orders. I do not have the ability to moniter the situation on the field. The game makes it extreamly difficult to A. be a squad leader B. lead an entire team.
Dont get me wrong, i absolutly love the game, and it is for me. I just see alot of potential in it that has not been realized.

Strag

It's good to hear that you're trying to lead. Keep at it! The game has only been out on Steam for two weeks, and available in stores for even less time. Folks new to the game are still learning it. It sounds like you're ahead of the curve, and having players like you to bring others up to speed is a big help to the community.

If you're having a hard time getting an idea of the battlefield situation, ask more questions of those under you. One thing I've been doing is keeping an eye/ear on the players who tend to use VOIP more than others. These players typically are less afraid to step up and help lead. Ask these players to help you out, and assign them key areas to attack/defend. Have them organize things in their areas. Sometimes this works better than other times, but usually you can get a decent command structure set up. It's more of an intuitive approach, but it can work just as well as a more formal structure. The more I play this game, the more I think this is what Tripwire was going for.

Also, part of the challenge of leading in this game is overcoming the fog. This game isn't meant to give you every little thing you need. It CAN be frustrating at times, but gradually you learn how to deal with these things. Again, this sort of thing isn't for everyone, but some players thrive on it.

Pooper

I agree Kaine. I have only had game for a few days now and have enjoyed it for the most part.
But I must admit I had hoped it would be a more teamplay oriented. Maybe I am just spoiled from BF2 I dont know. I miss the squad level communication and awareness. RO will need players with alot of disipline and patience to achieve the level of cohesion in BF2. But if this can be done I think the game can be just as fun as BF2 if not more. But like I say it will take everyone with the same mind set to acheive this.
What I like so far from the game is the realistic environment. Player movement is slowed, no more diving or jumping around. The weapons are much more realistic, no more, lucky M203 shots or, like you said Kaine, no more "god bombs'. I love the iron sites only, no more lucky hip shot from 50 mtrs BS. I like most of the maps I have played so far but a couple are preety confining. I think one is where there is a garage and a petrol yard, way to small, remindes me of MOH or HL. But the larger maps with open terrain are great. I havent yet got into to the armor side of the game. But by what I have seen and the reports from people they look to be a great asset to the game.
I have only played a few different servers and it seems there area alot of bots in the action. I never know if they are RL players or just AI. Especially when they do really stupid things.
I have yet to play on TG servers as there never seems to be anyone on when I am going to play but I am looking forward to a less pubbie atmosphere. This game is geared to the simulation side of gameplay for sure.

__________________
Pooper

fldash

ARGH!!! Please post in more readable paragraphs Kaine and Pooper. My eyes aren't as good as they used to be.

__________________
It is by grace you have been saved, through faith - and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God - not by works, so that no one can boast. Ephesians 2:8-9/NIV

|Pz505|Heinz

lol, "paragraphs are our friends" :lol:

__________________

Kaine904

haha, thats what i get for writing the post in microsoft word! It was all nice and pretty, but none of the formatting went over. Sorry bout the format loss in translation.

SteveConnors

I think if RO had the squad function like in BF2 that would make teamwork a little easier, however i was on the TG server last night and we where able to get some done.